ok, at the end of my third day of de AD… feeling sort of normal actualy… had to give 2 spinning classes tonight. It went surprisingly well. Didn’t go the max 100%. but I cycled the whole 2 hours lets say at 70/90% of my normal intensity. It was more that I was affraid to go all the way, not that i was not capable of doing it… Can not immagine I made the metabolic shift already, but I just feel good…
There’s all kinds of debate on carb-up vs not carb-up on a workout day. Try it yourself, see what happens. In a day or three, if you do poorly in the gym you’ll know you’re a adapting. Your body will be burning glycogen, but won’t have enough left for heavy lifting.
You usually should want to carb up on non-lifting days. This will provide a boost for working out then next day or two later. The next issue becomes what to do for 3rd and 4th workout later in the week and the answer sometimes is a mid-week moderate carb load, once full adapted.
I just started on Monday and I didn’t realize how low carb i already eat. are peri-workout carbs exempt from my total or should I count them?
[quote]Tex32 wrote:
I just started on Monday and I didn’t realize how low carb i already eat. are peri-workout carbs exempt from my total or should I count them?[/quote]
count them. i asked the same question two pages back i think. the only thing you don’t count is fiber
[quote]Tex32 wrote:
I just started on Monday and I didn’t realize how low carb i already eat. are peri-workout carbs exempt from my total or should I count them?[/quote]
Of course you count them. Read the first 30-50 pages of part one of this thread and all your questions will be answered and then some.
well… yesterday i was king of the hill during spinning classes… now, day 4 i feel like crap!! tired, empty, weak…bleeeahh
[quote]protein-pro wrote:
well… yesterday i was king of the hill during spinning classes… now, day 4 i feel like crap!! tired, empty, weak…bleeeahh[/quote]
There’s a reason why the transition is 12 days long and you skip the first carb up period. Day 5-8 for most people is when things really start to feel different. Some people don’t even “feel” anything, I know I didn’t and my only indication that something was changing was duffing two workouts. I guess since you did so much cycling, you depleted your glycogen a little faster than most people would.
Might be a smart idea to at least have someone available to cover your class next week on the off chance that you aren’t on the upswing of the transition. If you’re mostly depleted already, you should be fine but I’m a firm believer in quick preparation for a bad eventuality.
yeah i’m on day 5 and have yet to feel like death. i’ve had some headaches and was a little light-headed but nothing crazy. my breath was pretty bad yesterday and urine was pretty foamy this morning, i hear these are good signs to have though
I need some advice. I have been on the diet for about 3 weeks now (Friday). I am doing it to cut down to 10-13% bf in a period of 10-12 weeks and then in June start gaining again the right way. Right now, I weigh 220-227 at `25% bodyfat(it fluctuates a lot). First off, I have difficulty detecting if I am fat adapted or not, because my sweat smells like acetone (result of ketosis) and my strength has gone to shit (reps on my big lifts have been down by 3-5 reps). Secondly, my recommended calorie intake seems a little too high for effective weight loss (3000). Should I reboot the adaptation phase and go back up to 3600 for 2 weeks and then reduce my fat intake to below to 3000?
Eli, I had almost your exact weight/BF stats when I started the AD. As-written, the AD is mostly for maintaining and gaining, you need to drop about 1/3 of the calories in order to lose effectively. Drop down to 2000 calories (was what worked for me) on non-workout days and you should see some results.
Your strength shouldn’t be STAYING at a reduced level though. What’s your carb intake? When do you work out?
[quote]samdan wrote:
Eli, I had almost your exact weight/BF stats when I started the AD. As-written, the AD is mostly for maintaining and gaining, you need to drop about 1/3 of the calories in order to lose effectively. Drop down to 2000 calories (was what worked for me) on non-workout days and you should see some results.
Your strength shouldn’t be STAYING at a reduced level though. What’s your carb intake? When do you work out?[/quote]
My carb intake is minimal. The only direct sources I get is from about 4 ounces of nuts that I each every day along with trace found in the veggies I eat. I usually try and eat the nuts right before training. Other than that, my carb up is only one meal a week (pancakes and potatoes).
I train four days a week using 531.
Monday military
Tuesday deadlift
Thursday bench
Friday squat
Tuesday/Thursday I have a kickboxing class in the morning (8 am–it is a uni class and not hardcore or anything). I usually train in the evenings. (5ish) and each training session has about 20 mins of fast paced roping (10 before and 10 after).
If I am getting you right stay at <3000 calories on the on days and 2000 on the off days? Or should I dip down further on training days? Also, I have a 35/65 protein/fat ratio on training days, should I change that?
[quote]elih8er wrote:
[quote]samdan wrote:
Eli, I had almost your exact weight/BF stats when I started the AD. As-written, the AD is mostly for maintaining and gaining, you need to drop about 1/3 of the calories in order to lose effectively. Drop down to 2000 calories (was what worked for me) on non-workout days and you should see some results.
Your strength shouldn’t be STAYING at a reduced level though. What’s your carb intake? When do you work out?[/quote]
My carb intake is minimal. The only direct sources I get is from about 4 ounces of nuts that I each every day along with trace found in the veggies I eat. I usually try and eat the nuts right before training. Other than that, my carb up is only one meal a week (pancakes and potatoes).
I train four days a week using 531.
Monday military
Tuesday deadlift
Thursday bench
Friday squat
Tuesday/Thursday I have a kickboxing class in the morning (8 am–it is a uni class and not hardcore or anything). I usually train in the evenings. (5ish) and each training session has about 20 mins of fast paced roping (10 before and 10 after).
If I am getting you right stay at <3000 calories on the on days and 2000 on the off days? Or should I dip down further on training days? Also, I have a 35/65 protein/fat ratio on training days, should I change that?[/quote]
You are not on the AD. You are on a keto diet. I am not surprised that your strength went down some on that low of carbs on for a refeed as well. How much weight have you lost over these 3 weeks?
At around 25% BF I think you should be able to lose 2-3 lbs a week in the beginning, so adjust your calories to where you can do that. If thats at 3000 then great, if its lower, then lower the cals. I personally would recommend one full carb day. With a guy your size and as much training as you do, one refeed day would not hurt you at all (especially if you eat pretty clean).
I did 2000 off, 2500 on when I was on the AD (and intend to do it again starting next week). I also did a more even spread, 45 pro, 50 fat, 5 carb ratio, although I don’t think that by itself makes a ton of difference.
Maybe one of the eggheads can help you figure out the strength part… I’m more of a “fast nutrition” kind of knowledgeable guy…
EDIT: saw AJ’s post and yeah… your carbs are kinda low for 3000 calories unless you’re eating like 2 lbs of veggies per day. Throw a low carb tortilla sandwich in there or something…
[quote]ajweins wrote:
[quote]elih8er wrote:
[quote]samdan wrote:
Eli, I had almost your exact weight/BF stats when I started the AD. As-written, the AD is mostly for maintaining and gaining, you need to drop about 1/3 of the calories in order to lose effectively. Drop down to 2000 calories (was what worked for me) on non-workout days and you should see some results.
Your strength shouldn’t be STAYING at a reduced level though. What’s your carb intake? When do you work out?[/quote]
My carb intake is minimal. The only direct sources I get is from about 4 ounces of nuts that I each every day along with trace found in the veggies I eat. I usually try and eat the nuts right before training. Other than that, my carb up is only one meal a week (pancakes and potatoes).
I train four days a week using 531.
Monday military
Tuesday deadlift
Thursday bench
Friday squat
Tuesday/Thursday I have a kickboxing class in the morning (8 am–it is a uni class and not hardcore or anything). I usually train in the evenings. (5ish) and each training session has about 20 mins of fast paced roping (10 before and 10 after).
If I am getting you right stay at <3000 calories on the on days and 2000 on the off days? Or should I dip down further on training days? Also, I have a 35/65 protein/fat ratio on training days, should I change that?[/quote]
You are not on the AD. You are on a keto diet. I am not surprised that your strength went down some on that low of carbs on for a refeed as well. How much weight have you lost over these 3 weeks?
At around 25% BF I think you should be able to lose 2-3 lbs a week in the beginning, so adjust your calories to where you can do that. If thats at 3000 then great, if its lower, then lower the cals. I personally would recommend one full carb day. With a guy your size and as much training as you do, one refeed day would not hurt you at all (especially if you eat pretty clean).[/quote]That is it I haven’t lost much weight. I was at 219 which is really low for me and attributed it to mostly water. Since my refeed on Tuesday (that is my day, because me and my GF can go out then) I crept back up to 222 (total net loss is probably ~5 lbs).
If I am not eating enough carbs what is an appropriate level? Should I aim for 40/50/10 (P/F/C)?
But one thing that needs mentioning, I am not suffering the mental fogginess or tiredness associated with going low carb. I am not tired during roping or kickboxing, my strength just blows. And I have a hard time getting 3000 cals in a day sometimes.
I never felt ANY fatigue associated with carbs unless I was taking in a lot of dirty carbs and getting a blood sugar crash. I had no energy problems on low carb and no negative side effects from even a 48 hour carb up. Depends on the person.
Try out 50g of carbs on a 2000-2500 calorie diet, and try to keep 20-ish of those carbs pre workout and see what happens.
[quote]elih8er wrote:
[quote]ajweins wrote:
[quote]elih8er wrote:
[quote]samdan wrote:
Eli, I had almost your exact weight/BF stats when I started the AD. As-written, the AD is mostly for maintaining and gaining, you need to drop about 1/3 of the calories in order to lose effectively. Drop down to 2000 calories (was what worked for me) on non-workout days and you should see some results.
Your strength shouldn’t be STAYING at a reduced level though. What’s your carb intake? When do you work out?[/quote]
My carb intake is minimal. The only direct sources I get is from about 4 ounces of nuts that I each every day along with trace found in the veggies I eat. I usually try and eat the nuts right before training. Other than that, my carb up is only one meal a week (pancakes and potatoes).
I train four days a week using 531.
Monday military
Tuesday deadlift
Thursday bench
Friday squat
Tuesday/Thursday I have a kickboxing class in the morning (8 am–it is a uni class and not hardcore or anything). I usually train in the evenings. (5ish) and each training session has about 20 mins of fast paced roping (10 before and 10 after).
If I am getting you right stay at <3000 calories on the on days and 2000 on the off days? Or should I dip down further on training days? Also, I have a 35/65 protein/fat ratio on training days, should I change that?[/quote]
You are not on the AD. You are on a keto diet. I am not surprised that your strength went down some on that low of carbs on for a refeed as well. How much weight have you lost over these 3 weeks?
At around 25% BF I think you should be able to lose 2-3 lbs a week in the beginning, so adjust your calories to where you can do that. If thats at 3000 then great, if its lower, then lower the cals. I personally would recommend one full carb day. With a guy your size and as much training as you do, one refeed day would not hurt you at all (especially if you eat pretty clean).[/quote]That is it I haven’t lost much weight. I was at 219 which is really low for me and attributed it to mostly water. Since my refeed on Tuesday (that is my day, because me and my GF can go out then) I crept back up to 222 (total net loss is probably ~5 lbs).
If I am not eating enough carbs what is an appropriate level? Should I aim for 40/50/10 (P/F/C)?
But one thing that needs mentioning, I am not suffering the mental fogginess or tiredness associated with going low carb. I am not tired during roping or kickboxing, my strength just blows. And I have a hard time getting 3000 cals in a day sometimes.
[/quote]
When I said increase carbs I meant increase your refeed (I thought you said you only did one meal as a refeed). If you are wanting to do the AD keep carbs 30 grams or lower and then have one full high carb day. Just weigh yourself the morning of your refeed to gauge progress. I usually gain 5-8 lbs each refeed.
If you want to just do a typical keto diet, then just google “Dave Palumbo diet”.
The AD is what Dr D calls a phase shift diet that includes a transition through what one would normally consider ketogenic. It takes time for your body to adjust to this new way of working and the use of ketones is an intermediary between the use of CHO and fat for energy.
Dave Palumbo’s approach is version of the AD, a fat-based, cyclical approach, which focuses on EFAAs, lean proteins and a lot of low intensity cardio. He is obviously prepping bodybuilders for shows so the extremes in which he pushes are past those that Dr D recommends in his solution.
Once you adjust to the AD and you’re looking to lose body fat you can really push calorie levels down and focus on EFAAs and lean proteins for maximal results. Recommendations from Poliquin feed in well to this approach, specifically with his attention to digestive health, cortisol management and EFAA intake.
Hope that helps but fire any Qs as it’s great to chat about this stuff
Sasha
What would be the lowest anyone would recommend protein go to in relative to body weight while leaning out. For that matter what would be the lowest recommended fat%. I ask because the last time I cut I lost too much hard earned muscle. By the last couple weeks my protein was 1g = bw and fat was 30% of total cal.
my opinion, you will always loose some muscle, especialy if you go below the 8% bf i lost a lot. Even on juice you will loose some… but my protein intake is never below 2gr/kg bw. This was when dieting the ‘normal’ way, so low fat and reducing carbs…
Keep training hard and hope for the best 
But maybe with the AD is different, dont know yet… today is day 6 for me…