Muscle Milk: Throw it Out

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Lift4Life wrote:
It’s amazing, no one is giving me an answer to my question.

So you know what? seeing as though a few of you are trying to attack the tone of my question (somehow that can be done on the internet haha), I come to the conclusion that none of you know the damn answer.

What’s true from all of these posts is that, Barr or anyone else here does not know (or is just simply not typing it in the forum) indefinately that “MUSCLE MILK” is harmful.

-I accept “ENDOCREATINE” is an unhealthy substance to ingest. However, I do not believe “MUSCLE MILK” carries the same effects, due to the quantities of Folic Acid, B6, B12 that are blended in the mix.

-What’s amazing is that he got you to stop using “MUSCLE MILK” and you’re simply taking his word without doing any investigating of your own.[/quote]

Quote from: Glycocyamine and Health
By David Tolson

"In addition, GAA carries an added risk when compared to creatine. The conversion of GAA to creatine via GAMT requires the presence of S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe), which is the methyl donor in virtually all known biological methylation reactions. The amount of SAMe normally used for endogenous creatine biosynthesis is greater than the amount used for all other methylation reactions combined. When this reaction takes place, homocysteine is produced as one of the end products. Increased blood concentrations of homocysteine have been associated with an increased risk for developing vascular disease. Rats on a GAA supplemented diet have blood homocysteine concentrations 49% higher than control levels. On the other hand, creatine supplementation was associated with a 27% decrease in homocysteine. This is because creatine supplementation downregulates GAA biosynthesis, thus decreasing methylation demand. Although there may be ways of reducing this negative effect (such as inclusion of betaine), it seems much more practical to just supplement with creatine. [3]

If glycocyamine does get past the liver intact, the effects will probably not be desirable. The fact that it competitively inhibits creatine transport is not the only reason. Glycocyamine is also transported across the blood brain barrier (BBB). This may be associated with a variety of negative effects, and the most well-known property of GAA in the brain is as a convulsant [1, 5-7]. GAA increases the production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the brain [1]. Other mechanisms of neurotoxicity include inhibition of Na+,K±ATPase, decreased membrane fluidity, and interaction with the GABA-A receptor [8-9]. It is unknown whether these effects are relevant at doses used for supplementation, but it seems unlikely. They primarily become a problem in GAMT deficiency, which results in both elevated brain GAA and creatine deficiency. Still, those with a history of epilepsy should definitely stay away from glycocyamine."

  1. Int J Dev Neurosci. 2003 Jun;21(4):183-9. Inhibition of Na+, K±ATPase activity in rat striatum by guanidinoacetate. Zugno AI, Stefanello FM, Streck EL, Calcagnotto T, Wannmacher CM, Wajner M, Wyse AT.

  2. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Nov;281(5):E1095-100. Methylation demand and homocysteine metabolism: effects of dietary provision of creatine and guanidinoacetate. Stead LM, Au KP, Jacobs RL, Brosnan ME, Brosnan JT.

42

Wow, what a thread!

Let’s recap: Muscle Milk contains a worthless ingredient that has no benefits over plain creatine. You probably pay more to have this ingredient in there. Not only does it not work, it MIGHT be unhealthy.

Dave Barr, who is a freelance writer/scientist and makes no money on supplements one way or the other, wrote article about this ingredient without mentioning Muscle Milk. A reader was the one who pointed out that MM also contained said worthless/maybe-harmful ingredient.

But some people are going to use MM anyway because… well, because they just are dammit, and they’ll defend it no matter what because they don’t want to seem foolish for their decision to use it. Sounds like the same type of person who pledges blind allegiance to a political party and stays that way no matter how corrupt the party becomes.

So just admit you like the taste of all that fat in Muscle Milk and that’s more important to you that the fact that it comtains something which might be unhealthy and definitely doesn’t provide any benefits. That’s easier to accept than the “but it contains vitamins that counteract the unhealthy ingedient!” bullshit.

43

Why would you want to use a product that uses a worthless, unhealthy ingredient?? Doesnt that tell you something about the company producing it? Ok, so B6 will help inhibit the formation of homocysteine. Big f’n deal… why use a product that uses a worthless material… I just dont even understand your argument here.

44

Wow, I drink Muscle Milk while walking my doggie…

I don’t drink MM that much, but it is nice to be informed about this, because I was actually going to get my son this, but after reading it, he is going to have to stick to his Strawberry Metabolic Drive, or maybe just bump him up to some Grow!..

45

So I started doing some research:

[quote]http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4677
AHA Recommendation
The American Heart Association has not yet called hyperhomocysteinemia (high homocysteine level in the blood) a major risk factor for cardiovascular disease. We don’t recommend widespread use of folic acid and B vitamin supplements to reduce the risk of heart disease and stroke. We advise a healthy, balanced diet that includes at least five servings of fruits and vegetables a day. For folic acid, the recommended daily value is 400 micrograms (mcg). Citrus fruits, tomatoes, vegetables and grain products are good sources. Since January 1998, wheat flour has been fortified with folic acid to add an estimated 100 micrograms per day to the average diet. Supplements should only be used when the diet doesn’t provide enough.

What is homocysteine, and how is it related to cardiovascular risk?

Homocysteine is an amino acid in the blood. Too much of it is related to a higher risk of coronary heart disease, stroke and peripheral vascular disease (fatty deposits in peripheral arteries).

Evidence suggests that homocysteine may promote atherosclerosis (fatty deposits in blood vessels) by damaging the inner lining of arteries and promoting blood clots. However, a causal link hasn’t been established.
[/quote]

In other words, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming…

46

Finally, some good responses!

-I think this post has become incredibly informative to a lot of people who have tried “MUSCLE MILK”, including myself.

I’ve been doing without it, and will continue not using it after reading Barr’s article. Reason being, it’s effect on creatine uptake. No other reason.

So let’s get on these “MUSCLE MILK” bastards for all the damn cholesterol in “CYTOGAINER”!!! j/k

47

[quote]Zeb wrote:
Life is simple when you just stick with CLASSIC Grow!

:slight_smile: [/quote]

I’m with Zeb.

48

Damn man, this thread got hostile real fast.

Last I looked, steak contains plenty of saturated fat, which excessive intake of has been linked to heart disease.

I still eat steak, I just try to make sure I’m not consuming an excessive amount of sat fats in my diet.

I’ll probably finish out my two tubs of muscle milk that I got for super-cheap, then I might switch to another powder, as was pointed out, it interferes with creatine uptake.

I just wish this shit didn’t have to get so damn hostile!

49

I appreciate the info on Muscle Milk. I’ve been taking it for a couple of months now and had no idea that it contain a potentially harmful ingredient. I hear what Lift4Life is saying though. It all comes down to risk vs. reward and everyone has to decide how much risk they’re willing to take for themselves. If I had a history of heart disease in my family, I probably would steer clear of Muscle Milk.

50

[quote]A-Town Crown wrote:
Zeb wrote:
Life is simple when you just stick with CLASSIC Grow!

:slight_smile:

I’m with Zeb. [/quote]

Me too. I think I’ll order some right now. (clicks on the T-Nation store…)

Maybe not.

51

I’ve tried muscle milk a few times but alway the sugar content was a little high.How about Probolic? I thought it is good. On another note what the best protein powder out there? Anybody?

52

[quote]Blackiebluewings wrote:
I’ve tried muscle milk a few times but alway the sugar content was a little high.How about Probolic? I thought it is good. On another note what the best protein powder out there? Anybody?[/quote]

Multi-Protein blends in no particular order:

Metabolic Drive - great low cal, low carb protein.
Muscle XGF - great protein with EFA’s
Muscle Milk - Best tasting, good protein with EFA’s
Infusion - expensive, but quality protein with EFAs

53

Gentlemen,

I didn’t think that this would turn into such a hot topic. Hell, we wouldn’t even be discussing it if Biotest could keep up with the demand.

I have a few bottles of MM myself, and I have a tiny orgasm every time I drink the stuff. It tastes that good. However, I will use it in moderation and mix other types of protein in as well. I still have my Classic Grow!, but I’m using it sparingly until Biotest can catch up with the demand for their wonderful product.

All things should be used in moderation. I think any of you who claim that MM should be thrown out, better take a look inward and throw out your beer, cigars, coffee, plastic containers, microwave, etc… All of these things can be MUCH worse for you.

To sum up, I was looking for an alternative to my beloved Grow!, and MM has been used by a lot of (smart) people I know. They’ve had good results and a clean bill of health. Finally, there is an alternative, but it can be a shot in the dark on taste. I’ve used proteinfactory a few times to design my own blend of protein with the ingredients I want. I’ve had some of my mixes that smelled like deer urine, and other stuff that turned out pretty damn good. I always end up putting about $10/lbs in the mix by the time I’m done loading it up with what I want. It may be an alternative for you until Grow! is back on the shelf.

In health,

Jack

54

I find it useful to remind myself that just because a thing is harmful doesn’t automatically make it worth eliminating. In other words, let’s keep some perspective.

In today’s world, there are few substances of any kind that do not have at least one purported risk or harmful effect. If you truly believe that a given food or supplement is indisputably entirely beneficial, then maybe you haven’t consulted with a broad enough range of health “experts.” Relatively few things are conclusively proven, so as for the rest of the assertions which exist, it’s a matter of intelligently weighing probability.

My main point: because nearly every food/product has at least some associated possible harm, we do not have the luxury of automatically excluding a food/product at the first plausible sign of any harm – we must weigh likelihood and magnitude of potential harm.

Dave Barr, whom I admire and respect, has done a nice job of outlining some potential concerns with glycocyamine. Yet for this information to be truly useful, we must also weigh: how great is this potential danger? In this regard, much work still needs to be done.

We don’t even know how much glycocyamine is included per serving of MM; it may even be an insignificant amount. How much glycocyamine must be consumed over how much time before significant risk of neurotoxicity? Without answering these and many other questions, might it not be a bit hysterical to stop consuming MM? What if Grow! or any other food product were scrutinized to a similar degree?

My point is that we do not have the option of consuming only foods that have zero possibility of any harmful aspect; that being the case, we should not prematurely exclude a food or supplement unless we have a plausible basis for weighing degree of risk… just knowing of a possible theory of harm is insufficient for information about a product to be useful to the consumer.

As TC has said, we need to separate minutiae from the bigger things that matter… let’s not over-obsess on details whilst f***ing up on much bigger things.

Sooooooooo… how many of you who have decided after this article to NEVER drink MM again are still drinking soda? microwaving your food in plastic? using aspartame? not washing your fresh vegetables with a cleaner to remove pesticides? eating cake and icecream? spend time in the sun without sunscreen??? (Hint: keep some perspective folks. )

55

so i take it my 30g of ON whey protein, 40g of plain maltodextrin, 20g of dextrose, and 5g of creatine monohydrate as my PWO shake is the best I could be using, or up there?

56

Regardless of the negatives im going to stick with it. I have 2 tubs of this stuff and i just cant let it go to waste.

57

I was trying to find an ingredient list for MM hoping they may have changed the formula in light of the evidence. Took me a while since it’s not on their site anywhere:

Ingredients:

Evopro (michellar alpha and beta caseins and caseinates, Whey Concentates rich in alpha-lactalbumin extract, L Glutamine, Taurine, Lactoferrin), LeanLipids (trans fat free lipid complex consisting of canola oil, Sunflower and/or safflover oil, MCT’s, L Carnitine), Fructose, Maltodextrin, Cytovite I (vitamin and mineral premix consisting of vitamin A acetate, Cholecalciferol, d-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, Ascorbic Acid, Folate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Niacinamide, Pyridoxine HCI, Cycanocobalamin, Biotin, Pantothenic Acid, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Chloride, Ferrous Fumerate, Magnesium Oxide, Copper Gluconate, Zinc Oxide, Chromium Nicotinate), GCC (Proprietary endogenous creatine precursor consisting or glycocyamine, Betaine anhydrous), Natural and Artificial Flavors, Acesulfame Postassium, Sucralose, Soy Lecithin

It’s really too bad since I like the stuff so much. I’ll give Grow! a try next month when I go back to bulking.

58

Well said.

Anyone realize the potential risks associated with visiting this site, you’ll be using a computer and could suffer severe eye-strain, dry-eye?

You know scientists in Australia have established a link between playing computer games and the shape of your eye changing, which causes short-sightedness? That’s years of paying big bucks for lenses, contacts, and limiting your ability to doing your job properly. Might even get you killed one day if you don’t see that car coming.

Now send your laptops, PS3s, xbox360s, microwaves, cartons of beer and MM to me. Thank you.

59

I was a frequent muscle milk (mm) user and suffered a heart attack on April 8th, 2007. A good friend referred me to this site when I recommended Musclemilk to him…I had no idea that there was a link to cardiovascular disease and the milk…

I am a 28 yr old male, who now has a bear metal stent in my left coronary artery and a recently placed defibrillator to regulate my heart rhythm. I was told by my heart doc that I was the healthiest person to suffer a heart attack they have ever seen…I had a blood clot in my left coronary artery, causing severe damage to my heart.

I worked out dilligently, ate well, and took very good care of myself…My arteries where virtually spotless with no build-up or caked walls…I was so fond of mm because along with my diet, I continually increased in size and strength rapidly…I am not directly sure if taking this product caused my heart attack, but after reading your posts I began to wonder…I took this product religiously.

After my heart attack, I lived with the fear of Sudden Cardiac Death…When you have a heart attack, you heart becomes scarred as if you had a cut and picked the scab…But think about that on the most important organ in your body…My “scar” caused my heart to go into a rhythm called ventricular fibrillation…This is where your heart begins to beat rapidily and skakes, causing your heart not to pump blood and thus you die instantly…I now have a defibrillator to “shock” my heart back into a normal rhythm to stay alive…

All I have to show for my continue loyality to this product is a bad heart, a $50,000 defibrillator, a 5inch scar on my chest where they implanted my defib, 14 pills a day, and huge medical bills…I hope to whomever reads this will throw out there muscle milk because I cannot wish upon ANYONE what I have went through and will continue to go through throughout my heart diseased life.

60

AWE FUCK! I use Muscle Milk daily. Seriously I do along with creatine. So what other protein shake has a great taste like muscle milk? I’m so addicted to this stuff. Also a shake that isn’t any higher than muscle milk because that shit wasn’t the cheapest you know, plus it gave me great gains with a fantastic taste.

So is it that serious as to just completely disregard this stuff all of a sudden? The other guy made a good point about drinking soda everyday and consuming foods at high risks. But after reading that ^ this guy had a heart attack that scares me. So are these other reccommended shakes around the same price as muscle milk?