I spent a half hour typing a why the jump dip is a crazy idea, but the post was eaten. I said on the dog pound that it’s hard enough to get a pt. to comply, let alone convince someone on the internet. I’ll give the reader’s digest version. Other than the simplistic term of rotator cuff tear, hear are some surgical situations best found on contrast MRI. : 1. SLAP lesion grades I - VII 2. Bankhart’s lesion 3. HAGL lesion 4. GLAD lesion 5. ALPSA lesion 6. Perthes lesion
There are also normal anatomicall difference in the biceps labral complex, which lead you open to more naughty things, or slightly more prone in the case of type 2 and 3.
Stress over a period of time on the ac joint can cause a thickening of the coracoacromial ligament resulting in supraspinatus impingement. Ther’s also the issue of osteolysis of the distal end of the clavicle. All these things can lead to serious surgery that will take you out of the game.
I also ran this by an orthopedic surgeon colloeage and a fellow level three ART guy to be fair. The ART guy was shocked and thought it was one of the goofiest ideas he ever heard.This boy is a serious lifter. He’s a double bodyweight lifter, my personal ART guy, great natural bodybuilder, high paid personal trainer. Not a sideline guy by any means.
The orthopedic guy liked the idea if you had good insurance. To know, I’m not a coservative doc type that hates protein, likes long walks on the beach etc. You blow something that I can help with, and Ill have you back quick. Grade two ankle sprain, pulled hamstrings play that week. It comes down to risk benefit. This exercise might deliver results short term, buit you will not see the train wreck until it hits. Pulled hammies, torn pecs, etc. seem to hit out of the blue, but can be helped easily by ART if not to bad. If you don’t believe me that’s okay. But consider one thing if anyone’s not sure what the above naughty things listed are, maybe you should think about this a little closer.
irondoc- sorry I didn’t reply earlier I just noticed the response.
You have provided a convincing argument about not getting a shoulder injury. Now you just have to relate it to Jump Dips!
Regarding your buddies and their distaste for the exercise, that reminds me of an experience in college. I had an Ex Phys professor at Colorado State University that was trying to convince me that full squats were murder on the knees even when performed in good form. I reasoned with him and presented him with a stack of research weighted to the contrary. His response? “Well, I ran this by the head strength coach and the assistant strength coach, and they both agree with me, so you’re wrong.”
Well, yes, then I must be wrong. How silly of me.
I have a deal for you. There’s two parts:
1> You don’t perform Jump Dips
2> All of my clients that are injured performing jump dips get sent to you. I’ll even buy the airline tickets.
The clients might be fine, and that’s great, but the damage can happen very suudenly or very slowly. My perspective is as a doctor, been hurt guy, and competive lifter. One of my teachers is Dr. Dale Buchberger, probably the chiropractic professions top shlouder expert. I’ve taken 36 hours of training in his shoulder work along with app. 300 hours of ART training. If you don’t see the potential hazard in a ballsitc exercise with the shoulder in sudden extension and do not realize the potential damage to the labrum, biceps origin, ac joint that’s okay. Don’t buy plane tickets to my office, call Dr. Frank Jobe.
My point now as both a lifter and doc is, why not substitute an exercise which places the shoulder in less extension with say a ballistic pushup or close grip bench. They accomplish the same with less risk. As a personal trainer you’re affecting your clients health in a positive way, negative way or both. Choose the positive way.
If I recommended such an exercise, I could be sued for malpractice. Even my advice on this forum has to be couched with discretion since Im acting in somewhat of a professional capacity. There will soon be the day when trainers get hit with malpractice. As well they should if their practices lead to injury. Attorneys are always out looking for a new market.
If you don’t believe me okay, but do yourself a favor and call New York chiropractic college and sign up for Dale’s course. You can make up your mind after learning the technical side and all the details of the shoulder anatomy.
Remember, I’m not an armchair guy. This is one of the few exercises I don’t like. It’s all risk benefit.
irondoc- Whatever you do, avoid watching competitive gymnastics at all costs. You will become enraged at the compromising positions of ballistic shoulder extension these athletes are engaging in.
Point being, Jump Dips, or any other exercise like that have a built in safety mechanism. It’s called level of difficulty. You just don’t find a lot of guys that can even perform this exercise, let alone have to worry about injury (remember this is a workout for advanced athletes). When someone has the ability to properly perform a jump dip, they have built up their pressing power in a vertical plane to a degree which enhances the safety of the movement. To even be able to perform the movement would require a much greater amount of shoulder stability than the average gym goer, just like the movements of elite gymnasts. If a sedentary person were to try any number of gymnastic maneuvers or a jump dip, then concern should be directed at the safety of their shoulders. With that said I would also like to redirect you to my previous post about pre-existing conditions, this is the exception to my point about ability to complete enhancing the safety of the movement.
The movements you mentioned as alternatives require pressing in the horizontal plane, which is not what is allocated for this portion of the workout.