No I meant that for H4M. His lifts are impressive. And was wondering how well he did in comps with those numbers.
I agree, calculating limits early in the game (maybe even ever, although I love to over think that stuff) is counter productive if they don’t reach the first stepping stone.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]mch60360 wrote:
Did you smash the competition with a deadlift of 661? [/quote]
Was this aimed at me? I don’t deadlift. What was the point of the question?
You should be asking why we have so many fucking people on this forum who have supposedly been lifting for years but less than 20 seem to actually LOOK LIKE IT.
It’s been ten years. If even 51% of the people here were serious about this shit on any level near the guys who stand out here, this whole website would have a different attitude.
Instead, we get guys worried about their LIMITS before they get anywhere near them.
[/quote]
I don’t think people on here are “worrying” about their limits. I think most are just mentally masturbating (which is the most common activity for most on this board, as I’ve said hundreds of times).
Why do we have people on here with mediocre or insignificant progress in years? We’ve gone over it before, with the biggest culprit being plain old INEPTITUDE.
There are also people who do love the sport of bodybuilding - working out, following it in the same way they follow other sports [eg, baseball or basketball or whatever] - but will NEVER EVER take it to the level that you, MODOK, hungry4more, Steely D, Cephalic Carnage, BONEZ, Holy Macaroni, and a few others have, simply becuse THEY DON’T WANT TO or THEY CAN’T!
For whatever reason: lifestyle, conflicting goals in life, genetics, ineptitude, indiscipline, and so on.
Not only will most make no progress, but they will NOT even remotely live ANY sort of fitness or bodybuilding lifestyle in another ten years from now.
I made good progress for some time and now I’m not because for a variety of reasons. Above all, I simply choose not to do what it takes for stellar progress. However, I still like following bodybuilding in the same way I follow other things. I’m probably going to attend the NY Pro and Atlantic States this coming Spring and Summer - and I’m going regardless of whether I’m hardcore or not.
At this point it’s impossible to change an entire attitude of this site. There are other boards with heavyweights and allstars (figurative and literal references) posting. (I can’t mention competitors’ websites here). I like your postings here, but I’m surprised someone like you isn’t posting in those sorts of forums.
I don’t see how looking at calculations or ANYTHING limits someone if they intend on working their ass off regardless of what they read.
But then again, most on here like THINKING more than exercising and eating. So maybe you people are right.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t see how looking at calculations or ANYTHING limits someone if they intend on working their ass off regardless of what they read.
But then again, most on here like THINKING more than exercising and eating. So maybe you people are right. [/quote]
Dude, look at this thread. If they were simply saying, “Gee, a list of body weights that some old bodybuilders reached in the 50’s, how interesting”, this thread would not exist. This thread exists because Butt Ryders are claiming that these body weights from the 50’s mean this is the most a natural bodybuilder can ever reach TODAY.
The whole “your wrists never grow” issue despite many of us noticing our wrists growing is another issue as well.
They turned this from a simple list of some measurements that don’t mean much into some absolute limit so they can say what everyone else can or can not do.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t see how looking at calculations or ANYTHING limits someone if they intend on working their ass off regardless of what they read.
But then again, most on here like THINKING more than exercising and eating. So maybe you people are right. [/quote]
Pretty much this. As X has said REPEATEDLY, why the hell would anybody worry about getting TOO BIG and strong? That will NEVER help ANYBODY in the pursuit of muscle or strength, so what the fuck is the point? It’s a self-limiting attitude that invites excuse after excuse for why people are small and weak, and does nothing positive for them.
[quote]evo2008 wrote:
The main reason people hate this equation is in my opinion because they think 200lbs and over = being ‘big’, when big is completely contextual on body fat and height (I won’t get in to ‘assisted’ potential because that’s totally irrelevant when we are talking about natural potential).
If you look at it another way, and look at the loads being lifted at these ‘pussy’ 180lbs lean body weights then is perhaps looks a bit better. For example, I’d say the average framed 5’ 9 guy at maximum calculated lean body weight 8% would probably have the following lifts in the big 3:
220-250kg deadlift
200kg squat (below parallel)
150kg bench press
Yeah ok, not record breaking, but that is STRONG and remember that is also really LEAN.
Now, I know a lot of guys 15%+ body fat (who think they are 12% or less in most cases) and they do not put up these lifts and yet they are 200lbs and so it’s all good. Of course, they could (will) easily beat the LBM equation one day!
Holy fuck if this isn’t under-achieving I don’t know wtf is.
With (competition, not gym) lifts of 661 in DL, 496 squat, and 341 bench at 191 and 189 lbs, I’ve KILLED that deadlift by over 100 lbs, the squat by almost 50 lbs, and the bench by a bit over 10 lbs…and I’ve only been lifting around 5 years, and am only 22 years old.
Now I realize I’ve got pretty good leverages for powerlifting, but those goals are NOT hard to achieve at all with just a little bit of intelligence, some intensity, and consistency. Stop limiting yourself people![/quote]
Fair play 5’ 7 200lbs @8% - mighty impressive natural! However, CT has previously written about the max body weight equation and while YES he DID 100% say a few genetically gifted can indeed surpass it, he also noted that it is a very good goal to aim for and is generally pretty realistic. In addition, I’m sure he would say those weights are pretty decent!
Out of interest Prof X - what is your weight at 8%? I know may be assisted but it would be interesting to know. If you’ve ever been that lean, what weight were you? Thanks - no dig, serious question.
[quote]evo2008 wrote:
[quote]evo2008 wrote:
The main reason people hate this equation is in my opinion because they think 200lbs and over = being ‘big’, when big is completely contextual on body fat and height (I won’t get in to ‘assisted’ potential because that’s totally irrelevant when we are talking about natural potential).
If you look at it another way, and look at the loads being lifted at these ‘pussy’ 180lbs lean body weights then is perhaps looks a bit better. For example, I’d say the average framed 5’ 9 guy at maximum calculated lean body weight 8% would probably have the following lifts in the big 3:
220-250kg deadlift
200kg squat (below parallel)
150kg bench press
Yeah ok, not record breaking, but that is STRONG and remember that is also really LEAN.
Now, I know a lot of guys 15%+ body fat (who think they are 12% or less in most cases) and they do not put up these lifts and yet they are 200lbs and so it’s all good. Of course, they could (will) easily beat the LBM equation one day!
Holy fuck if this isn’t under-achieving I don’t know wtf is.
With (competition, not gym) lifts of 661 in DL, 496 squat, and 341 bench at 191 and 189 lbs, I’ve KILLED that deadlift by over 100 lbs, the squat by almost 50 lbs, and the bench by a bit over 10 lbs…and I’ve only been lifting around 5 years, and am only 22 years old.
Now I realize I’ve got pretty good leverages for powerlifting, but those goals are NOT hard to achieve at all with just a little bit of intelligence, some intensity, and consistency. Stop limiting yourself people![/quote]
Fair play 5’ 7 200lbs @8% - mighty impressive natural! However, CT has previously written about the max body weight equation and while YES he DID 100% say a few genetically gifted can indeed surpass it, he also noted that it is a very good goal to aim for and is generally pretty realistic. In addition, I’m sure he would say those weights are pretty decent!
Out of interest Prof X - what is your weight at 8%? I know may be assisted but it would be interesting to know. If you’ve ever been that lean, what weight were you? Thanks - no dig, serious question.
[/quote]
CT has written a lot of things that here clearly does not believe in anymore. He wrote that ketogenic diets were the shit and that carbs were basically evil. He now eats a lot of carbs. He wrote that people can only gain X amount of muscle in X amount of time. He has now stated that he is embarrassed because he is now blowing those numbers out of the water. He also wrote a shit ton of programs that are the complete opposite of what he advocates now. So, before you go appealing to authorities on this one, try to stay current on what authorities are actually saying.
Also, this has been stated before, but it appears that shit needs to be repeated a lot. Saying “actual DEXA-verified 8% bodyfat is actually way leaner than you think” is completely irrelevant. The calculations that Butts used were not based on DEXA. They are old, so they are probably calipers. So, comparing DEXA measurements to caliper measurements is fucking dumb. Compare calipers to calipers.
Fair point although would still love to hear his thoughts. But are all his athletes natural then? I’d assume that if you can literally smash the limits then you must be able to go back to the light juicing days of the distant past.
Yeah, light juice in the past…like Schwarzennegger.
You young demented $#!tsnaps seem to think that naturally you can attain 274 lbs of ripped beef like 5’ 8.5" Cutler, but the great Schwarzennegger on light juice was just 235 lbs at 6’ 1.5".
Steve Reeves at 6’1" was 215 lbs au natural: clearly he is the natural upper limit of muscular development/10% bodyfat…and 300 other gifted specimens bear it out.
Yet, according to many people here, T-Nation is apparently loaded with drug-free guys who have far surpassed Dr. Butt’s calculator …which in essence means they’re saying they surpassed what Steve Reeves and John Grimek built in the 1940s before the dawn of steroids.
Let’s see your pictures then, fellas, for $#!t’s sake!
Let’s see if you’re really more muscular with more cuts than Reeves and Grimek pictured above.
Mr. Butt didn’t invent the numbers out of thin air; he corrobrated them into something feasible and useable for drug-free body-building.
You should all be thankful for Dr. Butt’s years of dedicated research, ya bunch of disrespectful ingrates.
Dr. Butt, on behalf of my fellow T-Nation men of iron, let me extend a full apology and a warm thank you for your infallible caculator which allowed me to get my head out of my @$$ regarding how much mass my deluded misinformed brain thought I could put on naturally at 10% bodyfat.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is almost as dumb as floid maywetaher…
Next step, …well…I don’t want to do steroids nor human growth hormone as they’re bad for my already poor health.
I think myostatin inhibitors are the way to go.
Are there actually real myostatin-inhibitors yet? I don’t mean the fake stuff that people are selling as myostatin-inhibitors.
I mean the real stuff.
Is there actually a legitimate myostatin-inhibitor yet?
5’ 8.5" 274 lbs Jay Cutler
5’ 9.5" 297 lbs Ronnie Coleman (285?)
5’ 10" 285 lbs Markus Ruhl
You guys are f*<ked to want to actually look like this!
It really is amazing how flesh can be manipulated and shaped, and these men have dedication that I really respect. It’s a monastic lifestyle, obsessive. They really don’t even look like humans anymore.
They look like cartoon characters.
Reeves and Grimek and Gironda are what body-building is supposed to be about.
It was a health and fitness thing back then, physical culture: now it’s strictly a drug spectacle…and apparently it’s a return to the carnival of human oddities that was popular in the 1800s.
In 10 more years, will the Mr. Olympia stage be full of guys who look like Greg Valentino?!
^^For me this seems to be correct, Whenever i get past 200 lbs I seem to put on more fat than Id like. got up to 220 at one point, but I was just too fat and my cardio sucked ass, so I cut back down to 200 where im relatively lean. Ultimate goal for me is to one day hold 220 lean. Not sure if it can be done, but atleast its something to focus on.
Will this subject never be put to rest? How many times are we going to have to rehash the same tired arguments from both sides? Read back through these threads if you want to find some intelligent points/counter points concerning this subject. But there’s really not point in re-posting them yet again here.
[quote]the_bradguy wrote:
They look like cartoon characters.
[/quote]
What are you… about 85 years old or some shit?
Every generation criticizes that which exceeds what had been perceived as limitations. People in Reeve’s day thought he was “gross”, overdeveloped, unrealistically exaggerated, etc.
It’s BODYBUILDING, and there will always be a percentage of the population that finds it unappealing.
And for he record, I’d love to look like a cartoon character.
They really don’t even look like humans anymore.
They look like cartoon characters.
www.crossfit.com
Here ya go Bradley. Now pull that gerbil outta yer ass and get to it.
[quote]the_bradguy wrote:
I think myostatin inhibitors are the way to go.
Are there actually real myostatin-inhibitors yet? I don’t mean the fake stuff that people are selling as myostatin-inhibitors.
I mean the real stuff.
Is there actually a legitimate myostatin-inhibitor yet?
[/quote]
Follistatin-344 injected IM or SubQ seems to have some promise…it’s very new though, so side-effects and it’s effectiveness are anyone’s guess
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
www.crossfit.com
Here ya go Bradley. Now pull that gerbil outta yer ass and get to it.
[/quote]
I actually prefer the old physiques myself. I also think that some of the current mass monsters look kind of ridiculous - and cartoony. I prefer Bill Pearl over Coleman, or Reg Park over Cutler. I appreciate the sheer freakiness of these guys today, but I wouldn’t want to look like that.
Why can’t people be entitled to their personal opinion without having to put up with dickish insults?
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
www.crossfit.com
Here ya go Bradley. Now pull that gerbil outta yer ass and get to it.
[/quote]
I actually prefer the old physiques myself. I also think that some of the current mass monsters look kind of ridiculous - and cartoony. I prefer Bill Pearl over Coleman, or Reg Park over Cutler. I appreciate the sheer freakiness of these guys today, but I wouldn’t want to look like that.
Why can’t people be entitled to their personal opinion without having to put up with dickish insults?[/quote]
Why log into a bodybuilding forum and bitch and complain that you don’t like how current bodybuilders look? I seriously doubt most of you complaining are at risk of even looking like the greats of the past making all of this mental masturbation a waste of bandwidth.
Coleman hasn’t even competed in over 2 years so why even mention him?
I don’t get why some of you discuss how you wouldn’t want to look like that…as if you were ever at risk of even looking like Reg Park.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why log into a bodybuilding forum and bitch and complain that you don’t like how current bodybuilders look? I seriously doubt most of you complaining are at risk of even looking like the greats of the past making all of this mental masturbation a waste of bandwidth.
Coleman hasn’t even competed in over 2 years so why even mention him?
I don’t get why some of you discuss how you wouldn’t want to look like that…as if you were ever at risk of even looking like Reg Park.[/quote]
Lol - well, thanks for your opinion - and all the insults. I suppose it remains to be seen what I will “be at risk” of looking like. But I appreciate you coming in and putting me down.
And I mentioned Coleman because I felt like mentioning him - when he last competed has nothing to do with it. As usual, you get personally insulted that someone has a different opinion of your heros, and need to lash out and take shots at what I look like. Man, I sure don’t go around these boards insulting you, but you can’t ever address me without A) Calling me names _ Doofus most recently comes to mind or B) Making sure you remind me that I look so bad I don’t have a prayer of ever being even 220 or so at low bodyfat.
At this point I’m at a loss. It would be nice to be able to express an opinion around here without getting shit on, but that’s obviously not possible.
I didn’t insult you. I told the truth. Why is that seen as an insult? I’ve seen your pics and I can tell by looking at them you are not as serious as some others here…which you would HAVE TO BE in order to look like the guys you mentioned.
Mentioning this out loud is now an insult?
