Max Effort Training

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Train movements not body parts if your goal is powerlifting.[/quote]
Ok pigeon chest[/quote]

You’ve said this in two or three threads now, if you’re attempting to insult me it’s not working. Find a better line.

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
WS4SB is also not based on muscle group splitting, so you STILL wouldn’t use that.[/quote]
yes im aware, i never said i wanted to do that. for a muscle group split can i change my ME effort and do dynamic effort on shoulder day? only compound movements except facepull or dumbell power cleans, some front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic[/quote]

Why don’t you just have a ME/DE day? Stop thinking in “shoulders, triceps” etc. You can throw front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic, read over the westside training manual and you’d see this. They may say front raises for higher volume on ME day and lower volume on DE day but you can throw the exercise on either.

Also Westside has a RE option as well…[/quote]
Yeah i might put one in. do u need ME/DE for upper and lower? Or can i do squats on one day or deadlifts on another. Or rotate between deadlifts and squats on ME and have a DE day for lower

22

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
WS4SB is also not based on muscle group splitting, so you STILL wouldn’t use that.[/quote]
yes im aware, i never said i wanted to do that. for a muscle group split can i change my ME effort and do dynamic effort on shoulder day? only compound movements except facepull or dumbell power cleans, some front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic[/quote]

No, again, follow a method completely, don’t just take certain principles you like as though it were a training buffet.[/quote]
See some ppl are saying i can do front raises on ME day and so on but ur saying not too?

23

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
WS4SB is also not based on muscle group splitting, so you STILL wouldn’t use that.[/quote]
yes im aware, i never said i wanted to do that. for a muscle group split can i change my ME effort and do dynamic effort on shoulder day? only compound movements except facepull or dumbell power cleans, some front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic[/quote]

No, again, follow a method completely, don’t just take certain principles you like as though it were a training buffet.[/quote]
See some ppl are saying i can do front raises on ME day and so on but ur saying not too?[/quote]

I have given zero advice on movement selection.

Please read the Westside Book of methods

Or ANY article on westside

24

Dude. You want to run Westside and you’re focusing on front raises…dude…

25

Roger, you really need to look up what Defranco has written about WS4SB. When you’ve done that, then come here and ask questions. You seem to have fundamental misunderstandings about how the system works and I don’t see how that can be if you’ve read what Defranco has said about the program.

There’s good stuff you can find through this site’s browser and you can find good stuff via google. Straight from the horses mouth is ideal.

26

[quote]Irish Pride wrote:
Dude. You want to run Westside and you’re focusing on front raises…dude…[/quote]
I dont care about front raises, i know how the westside method works and ive read many articles on westside. I know what im talking about, i asked a simple question. Can i use ME and DE day if im not using the westside method. Its that simple

27

You can call it whatever you want. Do you mean like just not waving DE squat percentages, or what? ME and DE are Westside ‘inspired’. You can call it conjugate training. In the end it doesn’t matter, all that matters is getting stronger.

28

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]Irish Pride wrote:
Dude. You want to run Westside and you’re focusing on front raises…dude…[/quote]
I dont care about front raises, i know how the westside method works and ive read many articles on westside. I know what im talking about, i asked a simple question. Can i use ME and DE day if im not using the westside method. Its that simple[/quote]

Can you? Sure.

Should you? Probably not.

If you fully understood what you read, you wouldn’t be asking this “simple” question.

29

WTF is going on in here.

30

[quote]themechanic55 wrote:

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]Irish Pride wrote:
Dude. You want to run Westside and you’re focusing on front raises…dude…[/quote]
I dont care about front raises, i know how the westside method works and ive read many articles on westside. I know what im talking about, i asked a simple question. Can i use ME and DE day if im not using the westside method. Its that simple[/quote]

Can you? Sure.

Should you? Probably not.

If you fully understood what you read, you wouldn’t be asking this “simple” question. [/quote]
Ill still be applying the ME and DE methods while doing volume on the assistance exercises

So if my ME upper looked like this

Floor Press - Work to max 3-5 ROTATE EXERCISE EVERY 2-3 WEEKS
Dumbell Press/Lockouts - 3x6-10
Rear Delts, DB Power cleans or face pulls - 3x6-10
Maybe some front plate or dumbell raises 3x6-10

Im still smashing the assitant exersizes like tris, and delts

Then Dynamic day would look like this

Bench 8 sets of 3 at 55%
Seated military or dumbell presses - Work to max 3-5
Triceps - Skull crushers, dumbell extentions 3x6-10
Side laterals 3x6-10

DE BOX SQUATS 8 SETS OF 2 AT 55% DEADLIFT DAY AND BACK WORK, PULL UPS/ROWS

LEG ASSISTANCE ON SQUAT DAY

Would this really be so bad?? Seriously?

31

I think that you should try it. You’re not getting the replies you want to hear, so go do it and see if it works. Most people are saying pick one program and run with it. I agree with them. There’s a really good article on startingstrength.com:

The coach that does his program has his athletes go through the starting strength program as long as possible. Then they switch to 5/3/1 and THEN to a lot of the Westside stuff. He doesn’t intermix them because they work pretty well on their own. Most people that I’ve met never give an established program enough time to work. They then take in every other program they see and bastardize it with the original program, making it into a two headed fetus abortion that’s good for nothing but stalled progress. Then they blame the original program, even though they never really ran it for more than a week or two.

You will be far better off if you take a program (ANY GOOD ONE) and ride it like a rented mule for at least a year. Get everything you can out of the established program by controlling your variables. With you changing as much shit as you’re trying to, you don’t know if your progress is stalled by the program, body tolerance to the exercises, diet, rest, frequency, or 50 other things. Hell, you don’t even know that your program works. When you run a program AS WRITTEN, you take out many of those variables, because a lot of people can attest that the program AS WRITTEN works. And if it doesn’t for you, you need to start eating more or sleeping more.

The reason why those programs work as written is that those coaches have decades of experience and hundreds of people who ran them. They did all the work and threw out all the crap that didn’t work. And you coming behind it changing everything after barely running a consistent program doesn’t tell me that you know what you’re talking about.

Again, if you think it will work, you would be far better served by going and doing it rather than posting over and over on the internet. Sometimes I try shit that doesn’t work, everybody does. But you’ll find that eating, sleeping, recovering, and following a good program consistently will make you progress faster than sticking your thumb up your ass and trying to cram in 70 different programs into to one.

32

[quote]johnnathanblair wrote:
I think that you should try it. You’re not getting the replies you want to hear, so go do it and see if it works. Most people are saying pick one program and run with it. I agree with them. There’s a really good article on startingstrength.com:

The coach that does his program has his athletes go through the starting strength program as long as possible. Then they switch to 5/3/1 and THEN to a lot of the Westside stuff. He doesn’t intermix them because they work pretty well on their own. Most people that I’ve met never give an established program enough time to work. They then take in every other program they see and bastardize it with the original program, making it into a two headed fetus abortion that’s good for nothing but stalled progress. Then they blame the original program, even though they never really ran it for more than a week or two.

You will be far better off if you take a program (ANY GOOD ONE) and ride it like a rented mule for at least a year. Get everything you can out of the established program by controlling your variables. With you changing as much shit as you’re trying to, you don’t know if your progress is stalled by the program, body tolerance to the exercises, diet, rest, frequency, or 50 other things. Hell, you don’t even know that your program works. When you run a program AS WRITTEN, you take out many of those variables, because a lot of people can attest that the program AS WRITTEN works. And if it doesn’t for you, you need to start eating more or sleeping more.

The reason why those programs work as written is that those coaches have decades of experience and hundreds of people who ran them. They did all the work and threw out all the crap that didn’t work. And you coming behind it changing everything after barely running a consistent program doesn’t tell me that you know what you’re talking about.

Again, if you think it will work, you would be far better served by going and doing it rather than posting over and over on the internet. Sometimes I try shit that doesn’t work, everybody does. But you’ll find that eating, sleeping, recovering, and following a good program consistently will make you progress faster than sticking your thumb up your ass and trying to cram in 70 different programs into to one. [/quote]
As i said its not for me, im on 5 3 1 and i like it. im talking for my friend. i guess he’ll have to try it and find out and yea ive read building an empire

33

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]Irish Pride wrote:
Dude. You want to run Westside and you’re focusing on front raises…dude…[/quote]
I dont care about front raises, i know how the westside method works and ive read many articles on westside. I know what im talking about, i asked a simple question. Can i use ME and DE day if im not using the westside method. Its that simple[/quote]

Yes it is this simple: You can do whatever you want. You don’t need to ask approval about your own made up program.

34

why would i ask approval lol its too see if it would help me bring my 4 lifts up, thats what the main thread was about

35

“your” main lifts, or “your friends”?

Lots of things will work, but they all stem from being in the gym trying them not writing threads about them.

36

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
You can call it whatever you want. Do you mean like just not waving DE squat percentages, or what? ME and DE are Westside ‘inspired’. You can call it conjugate training. In the end it doesn’t matter, all that matters is getting stronger.[/quote]

x2

37

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Train movements not body parts if your goal is powerlifting.[/quote]
Ok pigeon chest[/quote]

You’ve said this in two or three threads now, if you’re attempting to insult me it’s not working. Find a better line.

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
WS4SB is also not based on muscle group splitting, so you STILL wouldn’t use that.[/quote]
yes im aware, i never said i wanted to do that. for a muscle group split can i change my ME effort and do dynamic effort on shoulder day? only compound movements except facepull or dumbell power cleans, some front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic[/quote]

Why don’t you just have a ME/DE day? Stop thinking in “shoulders, triceps” etc. You can throw front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic, read over the westside training manual and you’d see this. They may say front raises for higher volume on ME day and lower volume on DE day but you can throw the exercise on either.

Also Westside has a RE option as well…[/quote]
Yeah i might put one in. do u need ME/DE for upper and lower? Or can i do squats on one day or deadlifts on another. Or rotate between deadlifts and squats on ME and have a DE day for lower[/quote]

Seriously go buy the book. You really don’t get what westside methods are about or how to program them. If you’re going to do WS4SB, follow it exactly as defranco wrote it since he takes the thinking out of it for you.

38

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
“your” main lifts, or “your friends”?

Lots of things will work, but they all stem from being in the gym trying them not writing threads about them. [/quote]
when i say mine or me makes it easier instead of saying my friend

39

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Train movements not body parts if your goal is powerlifting.[/quote]
Ok pigeon chest[/quote]

You’ve said this in two or three threads now, if you’re attempting to insult me it’s not working. Find a better line.

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
WS4SB is also not based on muscle group splitting, so you STILL wouldn’t use that.[/quote]
yes im aware, i never said i wanted to do that. for a muscle group split can i change my ME effort and do dynamic effort on shoulder day? only compound movements except facepull or dumbell power cleans, some front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic[/quote]

Why don’t you just have a ME/DE day? Stop thinking in “shoulders, triceps” etc. You can throw front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic, read over the westside training manual and you’d see this. They may say front raises for higher volume on ME day and lower volume on DE day but you can throw the exercise on either.

Also Westside has a RE option as well…[/quote]
Yeah i might put one in. do u need ME/DE for upper and lower? Or can i do squats on one day or deadlifts on another. Or rotate between deadlifts and squats on ME and have a DE day for lower[/quote]

Seriously go buy the book. You really don’t get what westside methods are about or how to program them. If you’re going to do WS4SB, follow it exactly as defranco wrote it since he takes the thinking out of it for you.
[/quote]
I do know how to program them, WSFSB is crap. Westside is made to suit your weaknesses with still having ME and DE days. You guys obviously know nothing about westside

edited: Westside for Bodybuilders

this program is pretty much exactly what im talking about, funny that. retards

40

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]zackysmith wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Train movements not body parts if your goal is powerlifting.[/quote]
Ok pigeon chest[/quote]

You’ve said this in two or three threads now, if you’re attempting to insult me it’s not working. Find a better line.

[quote]roger1111 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
WS4SB is also not based on muscle group splitting, so you STILL wouldn’t use that.[/quote]
yes im aware, i never said i wanted to do that. for a muscle group split can i change my ME effort and do dynamic effort on shoulder day? only compound movements except facepull or dumbell power cleans, some front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic[/quote]

Why don’t you just have a ME/DE day? Stop thinking in “shoulders, triceps” etc. You can throw front raises on ME day and side laterals on dynamic, read over the westside training manual and you’d see this. They may say front raises for higher volume on ME day and lower volume on DE day but you can throw the exercise on either.

Also Westside has a RE option as well…[/quote]
Yeah i might put one in. do u need ME/DE for upper and lower? Or can i do squats on one day or deadlifts on another. Or rotate between deadlifts and squats on ME and have a DE day for lower[/quote]

Seriously go buy the book. You really don’t get what westside methods are about or how to program them. If you’re going to do WS4SB, follow it exactly as defranco wrote it since he takes the thinking out of it for you.
[/quote]
I do know how to program them, WSFSB is crap. Westside is made to suit your weaknesses with still having ME and DE days. You guys obviously know nothing about westside

edited: Westside for Bodybuilders

this program is pretty much exactly what im talking about, funny that. retards[/quote]

Having an ME and a DE day doesn’t make something westside. WS4SB, is much more in line with westside then that. If you say it’s crap, I assume you didn’t have results, and chances are considering the success DeFranco has had with that program for many of his clients, it’s YOU that is the problem, not the program.

If you’re looking to do a bodybuilders program like that one you linked to, then do it, why the hell are you asking powerlifters about a bastardized bodybuilding program?

Most of the people that have taken the time to respond to this failure of a thread have actually run westside, probably many times over, and actually know what the hell they’re talking about.