Manorexia

Off Topic
61

[quote]lmjudek wrote:

Nonetheless, I think that if someone is on this board, and at least trying to achieve ‘something’ (say, a gain of 20 lbs), that’s a lot better than nothing.
[/quote]

Then we disagree on that. On this board, “something” should not “ok” if the individual is training or lifting far below their own potential for no other reason than they really don’t want to try that hard so they set an unbelievably lower goal. Take for instance that picture thread a while back where the guy posted a pic of some guy who clearly spent a great deal of time in the gym and then wrote something to the effect of, “I’m not trying to really get that big, I just want to put on a little size…like this guy”. It was as if he thought that since the guy wasn’t the size of Ronnie Coleman, that it must be easier to achieve and that he could reach it in short time…all while starting as a sedentary individual. It shows that perceptions are off when it comes to many visiting this forum. Sedentary people assume that it takes less effort to reach a goal less than “hyooge”, so they choose that thinking it is less work. I don’t think many of them understand the effort involved to actually get in decent shape at 200lbs or any weight for that matter.

In the gym and even in the real world, yes, SOME movement is better than sitting on your ass and adding more heft to your bloated nearing 300lbs physique. Yes, simply walking up that flight of stairs today may be an effort worth congratulating simply because Mrs. Plump didn’t take the elevator. Let’s give a round of applause for the guy with high blood pressure and a 50" waist because he ate at Subway today instead of eating that pound of Barbecue wings. However, this is the Testosterone forum. The bar should be set a little higher. Otherwise, maybe we can call this the Body For Life forum.

62

I simply wanted to say that constructive criticism is better than just criticizing someone in a non-helpful manner.

Other than that, I suppose I agree with pretty much all of your points. I will do my best to show some people the “T-way”, but if they don’t want to accept it, I will not push them.

Sometimes though, I find that there’s a bit too much pushing. It’s OK to be hardcore. Heck, I’m hardcore in a lot of stuff I do. But if someone doesn’t want to be, that’s fine with me (and I don’t mean that in the ‘not telling an overweight person to lose weight’ kinda of sense, but rather in the if ‘if you wanna keep your weight at 180 lbs, that’s fine with me’ kinda sense.)

I guess this is going nowhere, so feel free to ignore my rants:)

63

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Again, it isn’t truly about the “size” that someone is shooting for. It is about the strength or intensity of effort. I don’t think it is a concept that hard to understand.
[/quote]

Professor X, thank you for your validation. If that’s what it comes down to, I guess that means you approve of me. Because all else aside, I am working my ass off right now hitting the iron. There’s nothing wussy in my workout.

It is also an incongruity.

The loftiness of the goal and the effort expended getting there are two separate concepts.

Because it’s their money and their body.

But that’s beside the point. The whole reason I spoke up in the first place was to point out that stereotypes are rarely accurate, and that there are contradictions expressed in many of the points being made here.

I wholly support the bust-yer-ass ideology. However, you continue to misread me, making statements about me (or just my stereotype?) that contradict mine, unless your generalized statements are aimed at all the skinny people other than me.

To be honest, I find your candor refreshing and often humorous. But I also think you don’t really take much time to understand the individual, instead putting them into one of several categories for quick summarization.

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I think there are some big differences in the way people view “hyooooge” and “hardcore”. And we are seeing many of those viewpoints in this thread. There are many people that think they are hardcore but really are not, and many people that are truly hardcore but think they are not. The same goes for being hyoooge. Some people think you are not huge until you are the size of Coleman. Some people think T.O. is huge. I am not talking about just the people on this board but people in general. I say we just get strong as fuck and who cares if we are 5% BF or 15% or whatever (as long as it is not out of control). But I think I am in the minority on this board there.

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[quote]KnightRT wrote:

Hosierdaddy:

and if one more girl tells me she thinks stephen from Laguna Beach or Seth from the OC is cute, i’m going to shake the living shit out of her.

A wife beater in training, just like Chrismcl! Wonderful, we need more domestic abuse.

DI[/quote]

here’s to you, you over assuming righteous bastard, i’m going to physically abuse all women i come in contact with that happen to disagree on a particular subject with me. While everyone on this board slings satire like you sling bullshit thru your supposed virtue, you were mindfull enough to point out the somewhat comical rant of a 19 year old collegiate. Nevermind his argument for a happy medium between ‘hyuge’ and ‘manorexic’ your clever psychological detective work uncovered a deeply rooted jealousy for skinny boys in the form of potential domestic abuse. Congradulations sherlock holmes, or is it miss cleo? You were able to point out and stop a potential disturbance to society. This Bud, you deuche bag, is for you.

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[quote]rainjack wrote:

This has to be one of the most frustrating threads I’ve read in the last 3 years.

[/quote]

Heh, my bad… It has been interesting, though. I’ll just say one thing:

You can’t force a mind.

-FC

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Revolver, about the physique the ladies want - unless you have a huge gut, they really can’t tell what your body fat is until you have your shirt off. And at that point unless your physique is terrible is doesn’t matter. That said, no matter what you’re wearing if you’ve got huge shoulders and big traps it’s impossible for girls not to notice.

68

I’m not going to chime in too much as I will probably mis-quote with the best of them.

As far as I am concerned what I love about T-Nation is the work-ethic. I hear people all the time rationalizing their failure, asking me how I can work, study, workout, do martial arts, diet, quit smoking and drinking etc. all at the same time and the answer is simple- I log on here and I see guys shouldering enormous loads, both literally and metaphorically.

The “display adaptability” thread was inspiring as was the old HOT-ROX challenge where it provided details of peoples schedules.

I like it when people realise that they constantly sell themselves short…and when I have it shoved in my face that success in any endeavour takes hard work.

This site is supposed to embody being a man. Putting max effort into life to get maximum results.

I can see how people get frustrated with the new wave of posters- who wants to hear about someone who wants to take their curl from 20lbs to 25lbs. I dont give a shit if it is challenging to them. I’m interested in the impossible, not in holding every average joe’s hand as he loses 5 lbs and learns to squat the bar.

I am not anywhere near the level of most people on the site- at least the old school…but I log-in daily just to see some real men, achieving real goals.

As far as I am concerned the problem with the site is when a proliferation of shitty goals happens. Who gives a fuck about most of these things? I have lost 29lbs of fat so far- I am trying to refrain from posting pics as I have a long way to go- who cares that a fat fuck is marginally thinner?

Lets have some more of the posts that make you think “holy shit, whats my excuse?”. For gods sake this site is not about the fucking norm. Mens Health is willing to discuss the margarine you put in your sub, and how to cut-up to fit in a XXXS shirt.

As far as “I want to get so big I cant fit through the door” comments go, I love it!

Guys like ProfX, RITJared, JackAss etc. etc. are interesting, they have drive, they are funny and they walk the walk. Any of them post pics and I look- its impressive, its a cut above, its not 10lbs of muscle to show off at the beach- its big big goals.

The drive that some of the statements like the one Wideguy made are cool. I know some are half-joking but come on people. Lets put the pedal to the metal and smoke this baby!

Stop fucking around and lift, eat, be a T-Man, set the sort of goals that when you tell people they look amazed. MAke the sort of progress that people stare at. Do the things everyone else is too shit scared to do.

Sorry for the length of this rant and dont worry Michaev I’m sure you have just been misunderstood.

I think everyone needs to take a step back, look at the info on this site and evaluate whether their goals are so lame they should be chased down and beaten. Fuck me, look at the glorious info. Everything you need to succeed. And some loser thinks hes great coz he drops from 160 to 150 and machine shoulder presses 30kg.

Fuck.That.

69

Now, my support for the argument of “the other side”.

I can see where Professor X and others are coming from. I pick on ProfX because he is convenient, and secretly, I think he likes it. I see him as the last bastion standing guard over the gates of macho, bravely doing battle with the horde metrosexual.

I see where he’s coming from. He doesn’t just want to add some muscle (and I’m going to generalize here), he wants to drag the biggest baddest sled, he wants to bend the biggest freakin nail, he wants to bend a barbell bar. He wants to bust a Smith machine with his bare hands. He wants to knock people over with a stare and a sneer. He wants five people to be comfy sitting in the shade from his shadow.

That’s cool. Those goals feed back on the strength and body building. The goals provoke more building, and the building provokes higher goals. If you’re not straining for those ever higher goals, you’re a pretender.

This is manly, this is macho, this is testosterone so strong you can smell it (even through the monitor)!

So… there arrives this paradox.

Are there other things this manly? Things that don’t necessarily have a strength-building feedback loop? And if so, are they less manly because of being not directly related to building, or are they equally manly?

What about a guy who races? Who goes hurtling down the straight at 130mph, gets to the kink and stomps the gas to the floor, because that’s the only way to keep the rear end planted around the kink, then goes hurtling into turn two knowing that at this speed he only has enough brakes to go flying into turn two with the car at a slight drift, balanced with the throttle between complete chaos on the left and complete chaos on the right. Then he does this on purpose, repeatedly, for eight hours.

Incidentally, it takes me only two track days to go from a brand new pair of brake pads out of the box down to the metal.

Or how about the guy who does that same thing on a motorcycle at 150mph? Well my bike is only three months old, so that won’t happen until this spring.

How about the guy who hangs from a wall, or a rock, with nothing but a rope and trust in his belay partner between him and a hard landing?

Could it be that someone could be really dedicated to pushing these skills to their absolute limit could also be manly, yet this same person might not find the goal of bending a 1/2" nail as important? Would this person be manly enough if he wanted to use hard-core body-building techniques to improve his body, yet didn’t really care to ever bend a barbell bar or squat 1000 lbs?

What I’m saying is that I understand the ProfX point of view. Do it balls-out or don’t do it. The question is, what is “it”? And if “it” is anything other than a strength-training-related activity, is it omitted from the manly club? Think about it.

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[quote]michaelv wrote:
Now, my support for the argument of “the other side”.

I can see where Professor X and others are coming from. I pick on ProfX because he is convenient, and secretly, I think he likes it. I see him as the last bastion standing guard over the gates of macho, bravely doing battle with the horde metrosexual.

I see where he’s coming from. He doesn’t just want to add some muscle (and I’m going to generalize here), he wants to drag the biggest baddest sled, he wants to bend the biggest freakin nail, he wants to bend a barbell bar. He wants to bust a Smith machine with his bare hands. He wants to knock people over with a stare and a sneer. He wants five people to be comfy sitting in the shade from his shadow.

That’s cool. Those goals feed back on the strength and body building. The goals provoke more building, and the building provokes higher goals. If you’re not straining for those ever higher goals, you’re a pretender.

This is manly, this is macho, this is testosterone so strong you can smell it (even through the monitor)!

So… there arrives this paradox.

Are there other things this manly? Things that don’t necessarily have a strength-building feedback loop? And if so, are they less manly because of being not directly related to building, or are they equally manly?

What about a guy who races? Who goes hurtling down the straight at 130mph, gets to the kink and stomps the gas to the floor, because that’s the only way to keep the rear end planted around the kink, then goes hurtling into turn two knowing that at this speed he only has enough brakes to go flying into turn two with the car at a slight drift, balanced with the throttle between complete chaos on the left and complete chaos on the right. Then he does this on purpose, repeatedly, for eight hours.

Incidentally, it takes me only two track days to go from a brand new pair of brake pads out of the box down to the metal.

Or how about the guy who does that same thing on a motorcycle at 150mph? Well my bike is only three months old, so that won’t happen until this spring.

How about the guy who hangs from a wall, or a rock, with nothing but a rope and trust in his belay partner between him and a hard landing?

Could it be that someone could be really dedicated to pushing these skills to their absolute limit could also be manly, yet this same person might not find the goal of bending a 1/2" nail as important? Would this person be manly enough if he wanted to use hard-core body-building techniques to improve his body, yet didn’t really care to ever bend a barbell bar or squat 1000 lbs?

What I’m saying is that I understand the ProfX point of view. Do it balls-out or don’t do it. The question is, what is “it”? And if “it” is anything other than a strength-training-related activity, is it omitted from the manly club? Think about it.[/quote]

UHHHH…you don’t have any of those ‘alternative manly’ goals. It would be great if you did. There are plenty of bodyweight-restricted athletes (powerlifters, wrestlers, MMA, etc.) on these forums whom no one is disrespecting. However, it surely looks to us like your training goals are only to avoid outgrowing the H&M design schema.

P.S. No joke ProfX, giving up 4 inches of height and 70 pounds from you (at the time) I rocked the shaved head/pink polo combination with marvelous results. Don’t knock it until you try it.

71

this whole mess about wanting to acheive what the “normal american chicks” want is ridiculous. I walked into a store the other day looking for some jeans and I couldnt tell the guys side from the girls side. that should tell you about the “normal american chicks”. I left that store rather quickly.

72

[quote]michaelv wrote:
Now, my support for the argument of “the other side”.

What about a guy who races? Who goes hurtling down the straight at 130mph, gets to the kink and stomps the gas to the floor, because that’s the only way to keep the rear end planted around the kink, then goes hurtling into turn two knowing that at this speed he only has enough brakes to go flying into turn two with the car at a slight drift, balanced with the throttle between complete chaos on the left and complete chaos on the right. Then he does this on purpose, repeatedly, for eight hours.

Incidentally, it takes me only two track days to go from a brand new pair of brake pads out of the box down to the metal.

Or how about the guy who does that same thing on a motorcycle at 150mph? Well my bike is only three months old, so that won’t happen until this spring.

How about the guy who hangs from a wall, or a rock, with nothing but a rope and trust in his belay partner between him and a hard landing?
[/quote]

This is a body building site, isn’t it? What does racing or rock climbing have to do with body building? What does it have to do with getting into the gym and training like a dawg 6 days a week? Oh, that’s right. Nothing. Its not macho to train balls to the wall - its common sense.

Here is a tip for everyone. No-one on this site should should post anything like “I’m 6 foot and 175lbs and want to cut” without expecting a well deserved flaming. This site is about building muscle and looking good nekkid, not how to be a waif boy in 10 easy steps.

73

This is a great thread. We’ve got an important topic here. Anyway, let me bore you with my own story for a while.

Ten or twelve years ago during the low fat era I pushed all the way down to 178 lbs. I went to the gym every day and did a lot of cardio, but at least I held onto some muscle, more by luck than anything else.

Two or three years ago I started out as a sedentary lardass at about 250 lbs. Before getting into the iron at all I was probably down to something like 190 lbs. I was on this site a lot at that time, learning, but I didn’t have much to say because I really knew shit about lifting and I didn’t feel I fit it with the hardcore attitude.

So, I recently completed a bulking cycle, which is hard for a FFB to do. I got up to approximately 220lbs for a couple of days last week. I’m 6’ tall. I’m not huge by any means. I’m not as lean as I’d like, but I’m going to start working on that now.

Anyway, there are two points I’d like to make really:

  1. Once you get into the iron, and you hang around and see truly strong or big people, your perception of big starts to change. People change with time and can adopt a more hardcore attitude. I have.

  2. You can put on a hell of a lot of muscle before you start to develop any appreciable size. If I gain or drop five or ten pounds of muscle, it’s not easy to tell the difference. If you are afraid of getting too big, you are an idiot. It will take years of ball busting work to put on appreciable mass – and you can get rid of it any time you like.

As for me, I’m actually pissed off that I’ll probably end up around 200 lbs when I lean down from my current 215 lbs. If I’m appreciably lean it will finally satisfy a goal I had about twenty years ago – to be a lean 200 lbs. However, I think I’d look good at a lean 220 or 240.

People with manorexia need a rap on the head to wake them up. ProfX does a good job at that. However, if these people get into lifting for a while, see how long it takes to build up appreciable mass and develop a profound respect for the work of others larger than themselves, their attitudes and goals are very likely to change.

I’d say, kick em once or twice for being stupid, but give some encouragement and don’t shut the door completely. There is after all only one way to get serious… and that is to start where you currently are and work from there.

If only it were so easy to suddenly wake up one day and be too big…

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This thread makes me sick. You skinny guys parade your “not too big” goals around and then want everyone to congratulate you. If you were really confident that your goals were righteous and respectable you wouldn’t give a crap what we thought of them. It seems to me that what you really want is validation from those who you know are willing to do what you aren’t. You feel inferior and you want the hardcore lifters to say: “That’s okay. You’re just as accomplished a lifter as I am, we just have different goals.” It’s pitiful.

JMB

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I look back to the old Warior Nerd days and feel a pang of sorrow in my chest.It seems as though the old days when it was good to get smarter and get HUMONGUS are gone. Now we have some wussified posters who want a six pack, or to be “nicely cut”.They want to be supported for their efforts to attain an average build after years of neglect.
OH, O.K., nice job little Billy, now go have a protien shake an prop yourself up against the illusion that you are a man.Thats a good boy!Is that what you guys are looking for? A little posative affirmation?
Fuck That! I want to be HUMONGUS. I want triceps that allow me to bitch slap small cars into next week. A grip that makes any asshole that plays that stupid handshake game piss his pants and cry for his momma.I want women to shiver in my presence and their little bitch boyfriends to demonstrate some serious submissive behavior.Like “heres Mandy, have fun with her,just don’t hurt me.”. When they see the flairing nostrils,clenching jaws, and guns that make a battleship look weak, they will Know that they are in the presence of the Alpha Male,and they will respond accordingly.
But thats just my goal, which I’m pretty well on my way to achieving.
Can I get a little support here?

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[quote]dond1esel wrote:

UHHHH…you don’t have any of those ‘alternative manly’ goals. It would be great if you did. There are plenty of bodyweight-restricted athletes (powerlifters, wrestlers, MMA, etc.) on these forums whom no one is disrespecting. However, it surely looks to us like your training goals are only to avoid outgrowing the H&M design schema.

P.S. No joke ProfX, giving up 4 inches of height and 70 pounds from you (at the time) I rocked the shaved head/pink polo combination with marvelous results. Don’t knock it until you try it.[/quote]

If you’re a powerlifter, and your goal is to get strong while staying in your weightclass, you’re a shame to the pling world. Set the standard a little higher! Doing well in your weight class is awesome, but everyone knows the real goal is to have huge fucking lifts, not to be able to outlift a bunch of midgets.

77

To mindeffer and JMB - Testify, motherfuckers!!!

Too big? What the fuck does that even mean? Too strong? Is that even possible? Once people lift for a few years, or are even surrounded by people who do lift, you quickly get an idea of what big and strong is. I used to think a 350lbs bench was good until I saw one of the gorillas at my gym warming up with it.

I want to get so big that concrete breaks when I step on it. People will see me walking down the street, and they will grab their children and run indoors. I want to be able to kick the doors off a '68 Chevy. I want to be able to iron my clothes while wearing them!!!

Seriously, I don’t want to get too big? Don’t worry about it, cause when you are working out, you will be thinking “I better not try too hard, I might get too big”. Go ahead, be average. I will be thinking “as soon as I lift this, I can work on lifting something heavier, for more reps”. I am bigger and stronger now than I was 6 months ago, and in 6 months, I will be bigger and stronger again.

78

Alright fine, I concede. Point made. Message received. I’m not worthy of this site because my goal isn’t to be the most massive throbbing gob of muscle man has ever seen. Genetically, I am disqualified from paticipating here. I am a girly-man, half-man, psuedo-man.

I’ll just return all my unused Biotest products and dump the rest down the drain.

I guess if you don’t intend to get FUCKIN’ HYOOGE then you should be getting your lifting advice from Men’s Health, or maybe Popular Mechanics.

Adios muchachos.

79

… or not.

Half-man or not, I don’t give up that easily. :slight_smile:

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[quote]Massif wrote:
Seriously, I don’t want to get too big? Don’t worry about it, cause when you are working out, you will be thinking “I better not try too hard, I might get too big”.
[/quote]
Lol massif, go ahead put words in my mouth that contradict what I explicitly posted in this very thread. Well done!

[quote]
Go ahead, be average. I will be thinking “as soon as I lift this, I can work on lifting something heavier, for more reps”. I am bigger and stronger now than I was 6 months ago, and in 6 months, I will be bigger and stronger again.[/quote]

Gee, that sounds a lot like the kind of stuff I think to myself. Imagine that…

Sunday afternoon, at the gym doing my DB decline presses. The problem with DB presses for me is that I have to use enough weight to make it worthwhile that I have a hard time getting it into position. So, I’m on my second set, my arms are wobbly, there’s a twinge in my chest where I pulled a muscle a few weeks ago, and I can feel the left arm wanting to buckle.

So I just said, “that’s good enough for today, don’t want to get too big.”

No! I said, “PUSH THROUGH THIS SHIT MOTHERFUCKER!” And I did. In fact, my next rep was stronger and more explosive. I got all 4x6 reps in. And next week, I’ll try it again with more weight! Weee… Bastard manorexic defying our freakin stereotypes!