[quote]michaelv wrote:
So why am I here where people seem to want to look like Japanese anime caricatures of actual humans? Because this site has the best info I have found so far on body building, nutrition, etc.
[/quote]
Hah! Good stuff. You’re okay in my book, Mike.
[quote]dond1esel wrote:
michaelv wrote:
You’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say that. In fact, I said the opposite of that.
The skinnier I am the better I look? No, I explicitly said I’m trying to get bigger. “Big enough”.
I agree there’s such a thing as too skinny. Why do you think I’m working out? As I said, I’m manorexic by genetics, not by choice. But I also don’t want muscles squeezing out of every opening. I don’t want arms so big that I can’t wear a fitted dress shirt. I definitely don’t want to “be so big they have to grease the doorway for me to get through sideways”. I want to just fit in trim fitted clothing.
So why am I here where people seem to want to look like Japanese anime caricatures of actual humans? Because this site has the best info I have found so far on body building, nutrition, etc.
And, as I said, I AM a skinny bastard, by genetics. And putting muscle on that frame isn’t easy.
I spend as much time in Express, Abercrombie, Armani Exchange et. al., as a man half my size and twice my income. I make those clothes look good, not the other way around. Let me tell you, the threshold for not getting into a dress shirt is high. I have been chasing it for some time.
As has been said to many an owner of the Orlando Bloom physique before, the idea of not getting “too big” concedes defeat before you begin. You wouldn’t need a site as comprehensive as this one if size were easy to gain. Personally, to ensure satisfying results I have to work out hard enough to see stars. It’s a simple training precept that overload is what creates hypertrophy, so an aversion to overload is not going to do you any good. Untrained life is moderation, so why would you try to work out in moderation?
P.S. I would encourage ProfX to try a pink shirt out for size. Anyone else over 200 want to second the idea?[/quote]
yes! a pink abercromrbie polo, with the collar popped, and i want him doing frat curls too… i honestly think i would shit a brick if i were to witness this
back to what dond said, it’s almost comforting tho to walk into an abercrombie and know that they are going to have your size cuz all the Mediums and Smalls are gone. I’m 6ft 225 with about i’d say around a 17 inch, 17 1/2? inch, neck, so finding dress shirts that fit my neck and chest but aren’t too long for my arms or torso can be a bit of a hassle sometimes.
as for this new trend of teenage girls loving littly skinny boys. Well fuck em, if i ever see a girl swoon over some little skinny deuche that is barely the size of one of my protein shits, then she isn’t worth my time. this is a fad, just like big muscles were mainstream in the late 80’s early 90’s, this new skinny feminine structure will be around for a few more years before eventually i think there will be a move back to very athletic looking bodies (kasper or archuletta type). I’ll end with this. I respect guys that can build slabs of muscle, 280 or not. I don’t respect a skinny twig.
and if one more girl tells me she thinks stephen from Laguna Beach or Seth from the OC is cute, i’m going to shake the living shit out of her.
I think what I’m sensing here is a somewhat simplistic and one-dimensional bias towards anything not hyooge by many on this site.
When did I ever say I wanted to look like a coke-ravaged rock star? Did I ever mention an afinity for boy band (to Justin with love, not)? Did the phrase “I want to look skinny” ever appear in my text? (Actually, the opposite appeared.) Have you seen anyone wanting to emphasize athleticism over size specifically mention a desire to look like a stick man? Has anyone here writte “gawd I have too much muscle, I gotta cut some meat”?
I’m a skinny guy. But guess what: I am here to build muscle. How does that conflict with the values of this site? Just because I don’t want veins popping out of my forehead every time I blink an eyelid doesn’t mean I’m not interested in building.
There is such a thing as “in between”. I know, I know. Tough concept. Not soy boy but not Arnold either. Sorry to introduce the concept of variance. I know it’s tough for muscle heads to wrap their simple brains around. (Let’s see who actually bites and takes offense to that. 
I’m talking more Pierce Brosnan than Pouty Frat Boy. More Will Smith Ali than Fresh Prince. More Men’s Health cover model than Seventeen Boy Toy.
I almost think some people here are threatened by someone who legitimately wants to work hard at building muscle, but doesn’t need to turn into a circus freak. I mean, some of the reactions are a bit on the defensive side. Does it really bother you that much if I only want to add 25 pounds of muscle to my frame?
[quote]michaelv wrote:
I almost think some people here are threatened by someone who legitimately wants to work hard at building muscle, but doesn’t need to turn into a circus freak. I mean, some of the reactions are a bit on the defensive side. Does it really bother you that much if I only want to add 25 pounds of muscle to my frame?[/quote]
What you fail to realize, dear “not so big enthusiast”, is that by creating limits before you begin, you set yourself to work less hard at reaching a goal. When I mentioned goal setting before (which one previous poster mistook for me saying that I ONLY wanted to reach 185lbs in the beginning), the goal was to set attainable short term goals versus unrealistic long term goals. Your 25lbs of muscle is almost guaranteed to be out of reach for you. Why, you ask, you frilly shirted pop star mirroring bench occupier? Because your goal is immediately “ONLY” or “JUST”. You act as if you will walk into the gym, trip and fall on huge. Perhaps on Monday you will be skinny and 'LO and BEHOLD, by Wednesday not one American Express shirt in your closet will fit anymore. That is the difference. It is what turns this site from “hard core” into “metrosexual coffee shop”. I personally don’t log in regularly to watch that on my computer screen. Gaining size takes a strength of will that you don’t achieve with “ONLY” or “JUST”. It takes more powerful phrases and words like “ALL”, “MORE”, “PAIN” and “DRIVE”. I’m sorry, but only and just could never reach that.
Your circus freak comment is classic though. Exactly at what point does one become “circus freak” and how easy is that to reach in the first place regardless of how hard you try? Please, inform me of this process.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
I think what I’m sensing here is a somewhat simplistic and one-dimensional bias towards anything not hyooge by many on this site.
yada, yada, yada…
I almost think some people here are threatened by someone who legitimately wants to work hard at building muscle, but doesn’t need to turn into a circus freak. I mean, some of the reactions are a bit on the defensive side. Does it really bother you that much if I only want to add 25 pounds of muscle to my frame? [/quote]
Look - the site is dedicated to iron, and ultimately building muscle. On page 6 of Issure #6 of Testosterone Magazine it states in its Declaration of Principles, [quote]“Given our love of iron, we’re also interested in all those things associated with lifting, namely food, supplements, drugs, and anything else that improves our lifting. And speaking of drugs, we like the judicious use of steroids”.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone that has the right idea of what this site is about feels threatened by any of the waif-crew. I, for one, am just a little bit tired of the never-ending stream of Usher clones.
But on the other hand, it’s quite comical to read ProfessorX’s rants against the 165 pound idiots who think they need to ‘cut’.
Seems to me like you are just making things easier on yourself and accepting defeat before you even try. I want to be big but not too big… oh ya Im sure thats a problem a lot of guys have. But whatever if you want to just be a little bit bigger to each his/her own but in the meantime make sure to not curl in the squat rack.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
But on the other hand, it’s quite comical to read ProfessorX’s rants against the 165 pound idiots who think they need to ‘cut’.
[/quote]
My dissension above aside, I must admit I enjoy reading pretty much all of PX’s rants. He’s a funny guy!
[quote]TwistedLocal wrote:
Seems to me like you are just making things easier on yourself and accepting defeat before you even try. I want to be big but not too big… oh ya Im sure thats a problem a lot of guys have. But whatever if you want to just be a little bit bigger to each his/her own but in the meantime make sure to not curl in the squat rack.
[/quote]
Nah, actually, it’s a goal. It’s a goal for two reasons. First, because I am genetically a Very Hard gainer, and it just isn’t realistic for me to even expect to get huge in a short period of time. I’m not even sure my body would support “huge”, but whatever is its genetically pre-determined maximum size would take a long time to achieve.
Second, because it fits me. I’m comfortable and familiar with not being huge. And to be honest, the huge look just doesn’t appeal to me. Athletic, yes. Huge, no.
But, you make a very good point, as does Professor X, above. However, you misjudge me. I’m not setting myself up to fail. I have not determined my maximum size. I just know people who I look at and say “too much”. Short of that, hell, I may blow right through my first goal and keep on going. Who knows. I’m not there yet.
In other words, my ACTUAL goal is not “don’t go too far”. My actual goal is to put on 20 pounds of muscle. I am 10 pounds into that. That will put me a little over 175 with bf. It’s a goal to achieve, not a goal to avoid. And, after that, I may like it so much that I’ll shoot for 200. Who knows? I don’t think 200 would be too much. We’ll see when I get there.
By the way, I do support your being tired of woosies who want to look boyish and/or not work hard in the gym. I’m here to work hard in the gym. As I said, I’m a hard gainer. Even if I stay somewhat thin while adding some substantial muscle, it will have required a helluva lot of work from me. And I’m not afraid to do that work. It’s why I’m here.
Now, who’s holding ProfX’s pink polo?
Great… I’ve developed a reputation as “the guy who doesn’t want to get too big”…
While it’s true I have a vision of what is “too much”, it will be a long time before I get there.
Until then, I’ll be training as if I’m trying to out-grow Wideguy. For at least the next year, minimum. I’m not interested in holding back. If I start ripping open the sleeves on my shirts, then I’ll just have to do a little cutting.
If I reach a point where I think “um, ok I’m in danger of out-growing my desired look”, I’ll just start moving to isolation exercises and fine-tuning the muscles that aren’t where I want them, and I have a feeling I’ll have several, including my forearms and calves.
So do me a favor and just pretend that I really do want to get HYOOGE, because I’ll be training and dieting just that hard. This is going to be true for at least the next year.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
For at least the next year, minimum. I’m not interested in holding back. If I start ripping open the sleeves on my shirts, then I’ll just have to do a little cutting.
If I reach a point where I think “um, ok I’m in danger of out-growing my desired look”[/quote]
If you’re truly an ectomorph, my guess is that day will never come. See, one less thing to worry about!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What you fail to realize, dear “not so big enthusiast”, is that by creating limits before you begin, you set yourself to work less hard at reaching a goal. When I mentioned goal setting before (which one previous poster mistook for me saying that I ONLY wanted to reach 185lbs in the beginning), the goal was to set attainable short term goals versus unrealistic long term goals. Your 25lbs of muscle is almost guaranteed to be out of reach for you. Why, you ask, you frilly shirted pop star mirroring bench occupier? Because your goal is immediately “ONLY” or “JUST”. You act as if you will walk into the gym, trip and fall on huge. Perhaps on Monday you will be skinny and 'LO and BEHOLD, by Wednesday not one American Express shirt in your closet will fit anymore. That is the difference. It is what turns this site from “hard core” into “metrosexual coffee shop”. I personally don’t log in regularly to watch that on my computer screen. Gaining size takes a strength of will that you don’t achieve with “ONLY” or “JUST”. It takes more powerful phrases and words like “ALL”, “MORE”, “PAIN” and “DRIVE”. I’m sorry, but only and just could never reach that.
Your circus freak comment is classic though. Exactly at what point does one become “circus freak” and how easy is that to reach in the first place regardless of how hard you try? Please, inform me of this process.[/quote]
I, too, am sick and tired of hearing the “I don’t want to get too big” song and dance. The worst offenders of this are most (not all) female trainees, who insist on occupying benches doing countless hundreds of db flyes to “tone up” their chests. It took me three months to convince my gf that she wouldn’t blow up like Jay Cutler after one week with the iron.
I think the main reason that people like myself, rainjack, and Prof. X truly dislike and reject individuals who claim that their wish is to not get too big, is their implication that becoming too big would be so easy that they are more concerned with avoiding said “too bigness” rather than working their asses off to gain some fucking lean mass. The statement trivializes the hard work of those who beat the living hell out of themselves every day under an iron bar to get stronger and better than they were the day before.
In closing, if you want to get bigger, say so. Don’t give us some horse shit about not getting too big. If you truly embrace T-Culture, as we have, then eventually you will forget what the words “too big” even meant to you before you came here.
PX:
Hardly.
How can you say this and then contradict yourself literally within a half paragraph? What, he can’t reach his goal because he’s not gung-ho enough for you? How would you know? Because you’re so brilliant you can absorb his personality in the space of three posts?
The root of progress is dissatisfaction. You’re dissatisfied, you set a goal, you assume that when you reach the goal you’ll be satisfied. If you didn’t think so, you’d set a steeper goal.
But not everyone is happy at the end of the road. What then? They set a NEW goal!
You hit 185, it wasn’t good enough, and you pushed further. Who’s to say this guy won’t do the same?
Hosierdaddy:
A wife beater in training, just like Chrismcl! Wonderful, we need more domestic abuse.
Spartan:
Explain this to me, what is T-Culture? It reads like a fraternity of assholes.
Someone’s curling in the rack! JESUS CHRIST! Let’s crucify the fucker! Ask him to leave? Help him out? FUCK NO!
Holy shit, that girl likes a Backstreet boy! Why doesn’t she like ME, I’m bigger than that guy! What a faggot, I should go beat his ass!
MAN! I’m in here ALL DAY in this egotistical pursuit of size. And this guy walks into MY domain and doesn’t want to look just like me?! He’s trivialized everything I stand for! And I’m so insecure, I stay up nights so my testicles won’t jump ship to another man!
Some of you need to take a hard look at what TC actually writes. Simply having the bod is only part of the deal, and frankly the least important bit.
Of the cross section who’ve made an appearance so far, Michael is the closest to the T-Man ideal. He was fat, he didn’t like it, and he did something about it. Now he’s thin, and about to do something about that too. So he’s here, reading, learning, and contributing.
And what do you do? You close the door! He’s new, he’s ready to go but he’s NOT FUCKING GOOD ENOUGH!
Hubris is the number one deadly sin. How many of you can honestly raise a hand and claim innocence?
DI
KnightRT,
Your self righteousness stinks so loudly that I had to light incense, buy one of those extra large scented candles, and adopt a new Glade Plugin right next to the computer. Sadly, that post still smells like wuss. One of the simple messages being driven home is the fact that anyone who logs in with “I don’t want to get too big” comes across like an overweight housewife standing near a stack of dumbbells and choosing the pastel colored .0005lbs weight even though her meaty arms could support more than the average man.
I doubt that some who make that comment truly understand the time and effort it takes to truly get “heyyooge” for any dedicated bodybuilder. They also assume that they would even have the genetics which is an unlikely chance in the first place. By setting the ultimate limit before you begin, you decrease the effort required to reach it. If that concept does not apply to you, then you need not respond to this post.
When I wrote that my original goal was to hit 185lbs, again you keep mistaking that as me saying that was my ultimate goal. It was not. I can pick up some Crayola Markers later today if I need to make this even more simple than that. In fact, the only reason that was my original short term goal was because that is how much my cousin weighed at the time. It was a goal that I could see visually which gave me something substantial to shoot for. My overall goal at the time was to reach a solid 235lbs (or somewhere around there) lean because that was also a goal I could see visually. It was common sense to me to set my sights on the short term goal, put everything into it and reach it, than to start out shooting for some ultimate goal that, due to genetics and time, might just be out of reach. Once I hit 185lbs, I then set the goal on 200lbs, then 210…then 220. It is the same as some kid saying, “I want to be an electrical engineer”…yet not focusing on his current high school classwork. Logically, that same kid would first have a goal to do well in high school chemistry first.
You mentioned not understanding what this site was originally about. It was not about “I want to look like (insert skinny pop star here)”. You can read the first issues this mag put out yourself in the archives. This was not the Men’s Health Forum. It was not for those who just want to “lose a little weight”. It was not for those who truly think that anything close to 200lbs is too big.
I understand that we do not all have the same goals. However, on a scale of 1 to 10 as far as goals and effort…this board originally promoted those in the upper half of that range and seperated itself from those with goals of simply “1” or “2, but only if my medium Gap shirts still fit”.
Now where is my Febreze?
Why can’t we just all get along? To each his/her own goals…
Keep in mind that huge is relative. 165lbs may be pretty damn big for a smaller person on a small frame. 230 lbs may be nothing on a 6’8 basketball player.
My goal is to be a lean 200-210 lbs someday. Are you going to criticize me because I’m going to be too small, too fat, too ripped, too far away from my potential, etc.?
I realize we all have our own opinions, but do we really have to try so hard to get others to adapt our own views?
[quote]dond1esel wrote:
P.S. I would encourage ProfX to try a pink shirt out for size. Anyone else over 200 want to second the idea?[/quote]
I’m pushing 230 I’ll take one of those pink shirts just make sure it say’s SALMON THE OTHER PINK MEAT on either the front or back.
It’s spelled wussies, not woosies.
That is all.
[quote]lmjudek wrote:
Keep in mind that huge is relative. 165lbs may be pretty damn big for a smaller person on a small frame. 230 lbs may be nothing on a 6’8 basketball player.
[/quote]
Again, it isn’t truly about the “size” that someone is shooting for. It is about the strength or intensity of effort. I don’t think it is a concept that hard to understand. This board has lost that original drive due to way too many with rather pussified goals and effort towards them. That doesn’t mean that everyone needs to be 250+lbs…it simply means that it would be great if we could return to being a board that supports pushing hard as if it did. That is the difference. I have no doubt that some people logging in regularly don’t even lift weights on a regular basis…if at all. I also have no doubt that there are several 150lbs skinny teenagers logging in and buying fat loss supplements so they can support a waif-like physique. I see a problem with that. Why don’t you?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
lmjudek wrote:
Keep in mind that huge is relative. 165lbs may be pretty damn big for a smaller person on a small frame. 230 lbs may be nothing on a 6’8 basketball player.
Again, it isn’t truly about the “size” that someone is shooting for. It is about the strength or intensity of effort. I don’t think it is a concept that hard to understand. This board has lost that original drive due to way too many with rather pussified goals and effort towards them. That doesn’t mean that everyone needs to be 250+lbs…it simply means that it would be great if we could return to being a board that supports pushing hard as if it did. That is the difference. I have no doubt that some people logging in regularly don’t even lift weights on a regular basis…if at all. I also have no doubt that there are several 150lbs skinny teenagers logging in and buying fat loss supplements so they can support a waif-like physique. I see a problem with that. Why don’t you?[/quote]
I completely agree with you on what you said.
But I don’t think it’s right to criticize people for wanting to be a specific weight. Maybe when he achieves that weight, he will realize that 20 extra lbs isn’t really that much.
All I wanted to say is that we should not push our views onto others.
If you wanna know my opinion on this… I’m 100% on your side. I detest skinny physiques! I can’t stand those pussies that can’t even do a pushup. I detest the fact that they don’t try to improve their lifes by eating healthy and training hard.
Nonetheless, I think that if someone is on this board, and at least trying to achieve ‘something’ (say, a gain of 20 lbs), that’s a lot better than nothing.
Being critical of others is absolutely necessary, because it allows them to see other opinions. But being critical can very well be done in a helpful manner. Sometimes constructive criticism turns into vicious condemnation, and I don’t think that’s right.
[quote]
lmjudek wrote:
Nonetheless, I think that if someone is on this board, and at least trying to achieve ‘something’ (say, a gain of 20 lbs), that’s a lot better than nothing.
Being critical of others is absolutely necessary, because it allows them to see other opinions. But being critical can very well be done in a helpful manner. Sometimes constructive criticism turns into vicious condemnation, and I don’t think that’s right.[/quote]
I agree…The message is sometimes lost in the delivery. There’s nothing wrong with having counter opinions and I agree that this site was originally painted as a hardcore, no BS, BB think tank. However, belittling someone because their goals don’t dovetail with yours, just isn’t necessary.
Typically, a beginner will have what he perceives as modest, realistic and attainable goals. This is normal because they don’t yet know what their limitations are genetically. I was always a skinny guy growing up, so when I started weight training I remember just wanting to see some muscle…ANY FUCKING MUSCLE. As I grew, and became more informed about my body, I was able to redefine my goals accordingly.
This site has obviously evolved into more then just getting Heeoooge as some of you say…There are people here that want to lose weight, gain weight (lean mass), get smarter about nutrition, etc. Hell, if we were all the same and wanted to look just alike, wouldn’t that be boring.
[quote]lmjudek wrote:
But I don’t think it’s right to criticize people for wanting to be a specific weight. Maybe when he achieves that weight, he will realize that 20 extra lbs isn’t really that much.
All I wanted to say is that we should not push our views onto others.
[/quote]
This has to be one of the most frustrating threads I’ve read in the last 3 years.
This is a bodybuilding site. Most everything that is written about has to do with either getting bigger, getting stronger, or cutting.
For newbies, or lurkers to get on here and try to change what this site was set up for just doesn’t make any sense to me.
To say that one of these waif-boys has the right to voice his opinion flame-free just won’t happen. If their goals are not sympatico with what T-Nation is about - then it’s open season on the skinny asses.
[quote]lmjudek wrote:
Nonetheless, I think that if someone is on this board, and at least trying to achieve ‘something’ (say, a gain of 20 lbs), that’s a lot better than nothing.
[/quote]
Then we disagree on that. On this board, “something” should not “ok” if the individual is training or lifting far below their own potential for no other reason than they really don’t want to try that hard so they set an unbelievably lower goal. Take for instance that picture thread a while back where the guy posted a pic of some guy who clearly spent a great deal of time in the gym and then wrote something to the effect of, “I’m not trying to really get that big, I just want to put on a little size…like this guy”. It was as if he thought that since the guy wasn’t the size of Ronnie Coleman, that it must be easier to achieve and that he could reach it in short time…all while starting as a sedentary individual. It shows that perceptions are off when it comes to many visiting this forum. Sedentary people assume that it takes less effort to reach a goal less than “hyooge”, so they choose that thinking it is less work. I don’t think many of them understand the effort involved to actually get in decent shape at 200lbs or any weight for that matter.
In the gym and even in the real world, yes, SOME movement is better than sitting on your ass and adding more heft to your bloated nearing 300lbs ass. Yes, simply walking up that flight of stairs today may be an effort worth congratulating simply because Mrs. Plump didn’t take the elevator. Let’s give a round of applause for the guy with high blood pressure and a 50" waist because he ate at Subway today instead of eating that pound of Barbecue wings. However, this is the Testosterone forum. The bar should be set a little higher and I truly don’t see how that can be argued.