Long time follower and first time poster here on the forms so, first and foremost, thanks for everything. As the subject would indicate, what have you found to be successful in terms of programming after Smolov?
I know I have combed through the forums several times and haven’t found much in the way of an answer I am looking for and was wondering what your thoughts were. I know for me personally, the only thing that ever makes my squat go up is more squatting and as it has been said before, Smolov is a lot like steroids in the sense that you feel like Superman(or woman for any female lifters out there) when you are on it and Clark Kent when you come off.
So, again, I guess my question for you folks is how to you progress after the volume drops off? I’ve tried transitioning into higher intensity stuff like the Bulgarian method for several months but never got anything out of it. Thoughts?
After smolovs I switched back to 5/3/1 squatting once per week and cranked up my hill sprints and accessory work. After a month of that I tore my hamstring. With hindsight I’d have continued to do 5/3/1 but slowly ease back into some of the conditioning and assistance exercises while slowly cutting down the squat frequency.
I would never go back to squatting once a week, def keep atleast 2 squat sessions per week, one heavy and one more dynamic effort work. I have yet to do smolovs again so I can’t tell your for sure, but I’d suggest to ease into the other program and if you can keep the squat frequency high.
If you can continue to squat 3x a week with your new program then do so. You don’t want to kill yourself and burn out but even doing some lighter squats at the end of a workout helps keep the groove greased which imo is half of the battle.
[quote]behexen wrote:
After smolovs I switched back to 5/3/1 squatting once per week and cranked up my hill sprints and accessory work. After a month of that I tore my hamstring. With hindsight I’d have continued to do 5/3/1 but slowly ease back into some of the conditioning and assistance exercises while slowly cutting down the squat frequency. I would never go back to squatting once a week, def keep atleast 2 squat sessions per week, one heavy and one more dynamic effort work. I have yet to do smolovs again so I can’t tell your for sure, but I’d suggest to ease into the other program and if you can keep the squat frequency high. If you can continue to squat 3x a week with your new program then do so. You don’t want to kill yourself and burn out but even doing some lighter squats at the end of a workout helps keep the groove greased which imo is half of the battle.[/quote]
Thanks for the advice, man. I am definitely in the same boat as you regarding the need to squat at least 2x/week.
Smolov is a peaking program and its like hitting the Nitrous button on a car. You can’t just keep hitting it or it will burn everything up. I think its good to shift gears a bit after Smolov; accept the fact that your max is going to go down for a bit and that gains come in waves; then gradually work into another program with more and increasing intensity and ride the next wave back up.
[quote]Re.po wrote:
Sheiko style worked best for me and helped keep those gains post- smolov. [/quote]
I’m glad to hear that it is working for you because I have heard really mixed things about Sheiko regarding the time-benefit ratio. I understand, of course, that as one approaches their genetic potential at a given bodyweight that gains will begin to reach an asymtope, but 2-3 hour sessions 3+ days per week for some gains as low as 15lbs on a total doesn’t seem worth it.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Smolov is a peaking program and its like hitting the Nitrous button on a car. You can’t just keep hitting it or it will burn everything up. I think its good to shift gears a bit after Smolov; accept the fact that your max is going to go down for a bit and that gains come in waves; then gradually work into another program with more and increasing intensity and ride the next wave back up. [/quote]
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Smolov is a peaking program and its like hitting the Nitrous button on a car. You can’t just keep hitting it or it will burn everything up. I think its good to shift gears a bit after Smolov; accept the fact that your max is going to go down for a bit and that gains come in waves; then gradually work into another program with more and increasing intensity and ride the next wave back up. [/quote]
And that is something that, while I conceptually understand it, the lifter side in me refuses to accept. I think the real reason I say that is because it seems like volume is the only thing that makes me stronger and thus, I have never benefited from assistance work. Like many, I have gone through a myriad of assistance work ranging from isolation movements to basic barbell work and back-off sets, to isometrics. At the end of the day though, as the saying goes, if I want to squat more I have to squat more.
Thanks for the foresight, though, man. Again, I understand it but I am still at a point in my lifting career where I have difficulty accepting it. Any thoughts on “shifting gears a bit” regarding programming?
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Smolov is a peaking program and its like hitting the Nitrous button on a car. You can’t just keep hitting it or it will burn everything up. I think its good to shift gears a bit after Smolov; accept the fact that your max is going to go down for a bit and that gains come in waves; then gradually work into another program with more and increasing intensity and ride the next wave back up. [/quote]
And that is something that, while I conceptually understand it, the lifter side in me refuses to accept. I think the real reason I say that is because it seems like volume is the only thing that makes me stronger and thus, I have never benefited from assistance work. Like many, I have gone through a myriad of assistance work ranging from isolation movements to basic barbell work and back-off sets, to isometrics. At the end of the day though, as the saying goes, if I want to squat more I have to squat more.
Thanks for the foresight, though, man. Again, I understand it but I am still at a point in my lifting career where I have difficulty accepting it. Any thoughts on “shifting gears a bit” regarding programming?[/quote]
I got very depressed after running the complete Smolov the first time, because it felt like “nothing was working” afterwards. The fact is, nothing works like Smolov, but you can’t expect gains like that all the time, year round. It will fuck with your head if you let it; don’t let it. I’d google around for some different periodization plans, ideas like the ones in this article by Tim H.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Smolov is a peaking program and its like hitting the Nitrous button on a car. You can’t just keep hitting it or it will burn everything up. I think its good to shift gears a bit after Smolov; accept the fact that your max is going to go down for a bit and that gains come in waves; then gradually work into another program with more and increasing intensity and ride the next wave back up. [/quote]
And that is something that, while I conceptually understand it, the lifter side in me refuses to accept. I think the real reason I say that is because it seems like volume is the only thing that makes me stronger and thus, I have never benefited from assistance work. Like many, I have gone through a myriad of assistance work ranging from isolation movements to basic barbell work and back-off sets, to isometrics. At the end of the day though, as the saying goes, if I want to squat more I have to squat more.
Thanks for the foresight, though, man. Again, I understand it but I am still at a point in my lifting career where I have difficulty accepting it. Any thoughts on “shifting gears a bit” regarding programming?[/quote]
I got very depressed after running the complete Smolov the first time, because it felt like “nothing was working” afterwards. The fact is, nothing works like Smolov, but you can’t expect gains like that all the time, year round. It will fuck with your head if you let it; don’t let it. I’d google around for some different periodization plans, ideas like the ones in this article by Tim H.
Regarding the not letting Smolov mess with my head, I couldn’t agree more. I am in that boat for sure. I will check out that link, though. I have always liked Tim’s stuff.
[quote]Re.po wrote:
Sheiko style worked best for me and helped keep those gains post- smolov. [/quote]
I’m glad to hear that it is working for you because I have heard really mixed things about Sheiko regarding the time-benefit ratio. I understand, of course, that as one approaches their genetic potential at a given bodyweight that gains will begin to reach an asymtope, but 2-3 hour sessions 3+ days per week for some gains as low as 15lbs on a total doesn’t seem worth it.
Keep killing it though, brother.[/quote]
Sometimes it does feel like a long day training but I had never gone over 2 hours. Usually there is 2 main movements a day such as squat and bench, often what I do is train 6 days a week instead of 3 and break up the days so I squat the one day and then do the bench part on the 2nd day. I found it just fits in to my schedule a bit better.
[quote]Re.po wrote:
Sheiko style worked best for me and helped keep those gains post- smolov. [/quote]
I’m glad to hear that it is working for you because I have heard really mixed things about Sheiko regarding the time-benefit ratio. I understand, of course, that as one approaches their genetic potential at a given bodyweight that gains will begin to reach an asymtope, but 2-3 hour sessions 3+ days per week for some gains as low as 15lbs on a total doesn’t seem worth it.
Keep killing it though, brother.[/quote]
Sometimes it does feel like a long day training but I had never gone over 2 hours. Usually there is 2 main movements a day such as squat and bench, often what I do is train 6 days a week instead of 3 and break up the days so I squat the one day and then do the bench part on the 2nd day. I found it just fits in to my schedule a bit better.
[/quote]
Awesome, man. And you have found that Sheiko has allowed you to keep your gains?
[quote]Re.po wrote:
Sheiko style worked best for me and helped keep those gains post- smolov. [/quote]
I’m glad to hear that it is working for you because I have heard really mixed things about Sheiko regarding the time-benefit ratio. I understand, of course, that as one approaches their genetic potential at a given bodyweight that gains will begin to reach an asymtope, but 2-3 hour sessions 3+ days per week for some gains as low as 15lbs on a total doesn’t seem worth it.
Keep killing it though, brother.[/quote]
Sometimes it does feel like a long day training but I had never gone over 2 hours. Usually there is 2 main movements a day such as squat and bench, often what I do is train 6 days a week instead of 3 and break up the days so I squat the one day and then do the bench part on the 2nd day. I found it just fits in to my schedule a bit better.
[/quote]
Awesome, man. And you have found that Sheiko has allowed you to keep your gains?
[/quote]
Definitely and then kept progressing (until I was injured in a max squat attempt, I have regressed since that while im rehabbing. the injury was unrelated to sheiko). I have found sheiko style the closest to smolov in a long term program. Smolov obviously isnt a program that you can run consistently over the long term, but sheiko is. The volume level for the amount you squat is generally quite a bit higher than say something like 5/3/1. but really what ever works for each person, it would seem everyone has different results with similar programs.
[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
The Beyond 5/3/1 workouts on the front page have you squatting multiple times a week.
Also nothing wrong with hitting it hard and heavy once a week…
I hear you, man. And the anecdotal evidence of the many great lifters (both of old and present) supporting 1x/week squatting is really what has me looking. Don’t get me wrong, I love squatting and have no problem doing it everyday but if I can get the same gains from squatting (or pressing, or pulling for that matter) 1x/week, why wouldn’t I?
But yeah, thanks for the input buddy. I am going to check that out.
I guess with where I am right now I am looking for some means of structuring some long-term programming instead of simply jumping from one specialty program to another.
[quote]Re.po wrote:
Definitely and then kept progressing (until I was injured in a max squat attempt, I have regressed since that while im rehabbing. the injury was unrelated to sheiko). I have found sheiko style the closest to smolov in a long term program. Smolov obviously isnt a program that you can run consistently over the long term, but sheiko is. The volume level for the amount you squat is generally quite a bit higher than say something like 5/3/1. but really what ever works for each person, it would seem everyone has different results with similar programs.[/quote]
And the fact that success comes from whatever program you believe in is what I am looking for. I guess it is a lot like what Wendler and Carter (say what you will about him) talk about in that you really have to have a lifting philosophy that you follow and that allows for the requisite tweaks to be made when needed.
That is also interesting to hear, though, that you continued to progress given the overall lower volume (relatively speaking) compared to Smolov. I know that based on my calculations, my volume on Smolov almost doubled the poundage I would ever be doing on most of the Sheiko templates.
True. But the volume is still much higher than most other programs.[/quote]
Real talk. Now do you follow Sheiko as prescribed? I know I have talked with some other lifters who said they had to go heavier in order to keep the groove for top end sets/weights.
True. But the volume is still much higher than most other programs.[/quote]
Real talk. Now do you follow Sheiko as prescribed? I know I have talked with some other lifters who said they had to go heavier in order to keep the groove for top end sets/weights.
[/quote]
I add weight for the bench sets and pause all the bench reps. Squats I keep everything the same. For days that there are front squats I usually swap it out with safety squat bar squats, mostly cause I find it easier on the wrists and I can move more weight with the SSB rather than front squats, and like I said above I often change the one long training day into 2 shorter days.
The first time I ran Smolov Base was about 5 years ago and I remember overtraining. I was much dumber then so I don’t really count that first experience. I remember I was so sore and could barely walk everyday. Since then I have only done 5/3/1 and have gotten slow and steady gains (only got up to a 355 squat at 172) but I wasn’t satisfied so I moved on to high volume/high frequency training near the end of last year.
After my first meet in December last year (I failed at 365, went too hard in the peaking cycle) I ran Smolov Base with a 355 training max. I took the last week off and skipped my max, going into Sheiko 29 with a training max of 375. (I honestly think that Sheiko should be run sequentially with 29/30/31 for best results, which I will run before my next meet to get more deadlift training.)
That cycle of Sheiko 29 didn’t seem to do much so I kept my training max at 375 when running my second cycle of Smolov Base. I completed this cycle last week with no missed reps. It was a freakin battle to get through my last session but I made it. Now I’m taking this week off and skipping my max so I can run back Smolov Base again starting from Intro Week 2 with a training max of 393.
This may be dumb but I want to experiment to see if I can run Smolov Base back to back as a 5-week program starting from Intro Week 2 and skipping the max out day. I will let you know how it turns out lol. Btw, I ice my back after every workout and I also foam roll and use a theracane every night so I’m sure that helps with recovery.