I’m going with a 393 (+18) training max this cycle because I want to shoot for +15 lbs for all the work weights. If this is too hard then I will scale back to +10 lbs for the work weights.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
The first time I ran Smolov Base was about 5 years ago and I remember overtraining. I was much dumber then so I don’t really count that first experience. I remember I was so sore and could barely walk everyday. Since then I have only done 5/3/1 and have gotten slow and steady gains (only got up to a 355 squat at 172) but I wasn’t satisfied so I moved on to high volume/high frequency training near the end of last year.
After my first meet in December last year (I failed at 365, went too hard in the peaking cycle) I ran Smolov Base with a 355 training max. I took the last week off and skipped my max, going into Sheiko 29 with a training max of 375. (I honestly think that Sheiko should be run sequentially with 29/30/31 for best results, which I will run before my next meet to get more deadlift training.)
That cycle of Sheiko 29 didn’t seem to do much so I kept my training max at 375 when running my second cycle of Smolov Base. I completed this cycle last week with no missed reps. It was a freakin battle to get through my last session but I made it. Now I’m taking this week off and skipping my max so I can run back Smolov Base again starting from Intro Week 2 with a training max of 393.
This may be dumb but I want to experiment to see if I can run Smolov Base back to back as a 5-week program starting from Intro Week 2 and skipping the max out day. I will let you know how it turns out lol. Btw, I ice my back after every workout and I also foam roll and use a theracane every night so I’m sure that helps with recovery.[/quote]
Keep us posted, man.
Look into reactive training systems by Mike Tuscherer. I don’t use it myself, but the idea is that you learn to do your own programming. In my opinion, this is what you should be doing if you don’t want to hire a coach. Programs like 5/3/1 are probably great for a lot of people, but ultimately they are cookie cutter programs that by definition will not be optimal for you.
In my own training, I like moderate frequency, I.e. twice weekly on all three lifts. I’m currently peaking for a meet and using RPE to gauge my workout.
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Look into reactive training systems by Mike Tuscherer. I don’t use it myself, but the idea is that you learn to do your own programming. In my opinion, this is what you should be doing if you don’t want to hire a coach. Programs like 5/3/1 are probably great for a lot of people, but ultimately they are cookie cutter programs that by definition will not be optimal for you.
In my own training, I like moderate frequency, I.e. twice weekly on all three lifts. I’m currently peaking for a meet and using RPE to gauge my workout.[/quote]
I’ll definitely consider RTS in the future. I suck at programming volume and that’s why I stalled on 5/3/1 so often. But through all my attempts at modifying certain training variables, I learned that I respond best to high volume and frequency with moderate intensity. I knew I would have to turn to Sheiko and Smolov eventually. Now that I made the switch I only wish I had done it sooner. I wouldn’t bash 5/3/1 because it is highly adaptable to each individual and the ideals of that program are important to learn. I would’ve continued running 5/3/1 if I weren’t competing. It’s best to try it out and learn what works. I will stick with Sheiko and Smolov for at least a couple years before turning to RTS or any other programs.
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Look into reactive training systems by Mike Tuscherer. I don’t use it myself, but the idea is that you learn to do your own programming. In my opinion, this is what you should be doing if you don’t want to hire a coach. Programs like 5/3/1 are probably great for a lot of people, but ultimately they are cookie cutter programs that by definition will not be optimal for you.
In my own training, I like moderate frequency, I.e. twice weekly on all three lifts. I’m currently peaking for a meet and using RPE to gauge my workout.[/quote]
Awesome, man. Yeah you know, I would love to hire a coach and have considered it but at this point in my training, I really feel like it is something I need to learn for myself.
That is interesting about hitting each lift twice a week, though. Now, when you peak for a meet, do you up the volume and/or intensity? I know that having come from Smolov, it seems like more volume/intensity would be the ticket.
Recognizing, of course, that the journey of strength is a general trend-line up w/peaks and valleys, I guess it never made sense to me to do all of that work for one performance, and then, ultimately accept that you are going to lose it. Just my thoughts, though.
Anyone else care to weight in.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
I’ll definitely consider RTS in the future. I suck at programming volume and that’s why I stalled on 5/3/1 so often. But through all my attempts at modifying certain training variables, I learned that I respond best to high volume and frequency with moderate intensity. I knew I would have to turn to Sheiko and Smolov eventually. Now that I made the switch I only wish I had done it sooner. I wouldn’t bash 5/3/1 because it is highly adaptable to each individual and the ideals of that program are important to learn. I would’ve continued running 5/3/1 if I weren’t competing. It’s best to try it out and learn what works. I will stick with Sheiko and Smolov for at least a couple years before turning to RTS or any other programs.[/quote]
Good deal, man. And when you say Smolov and Sheiko, did you jump into the latter post-Smolov? I know a lot of people boast of the Sheiko gains but fail to disclose (and this is to no fault of their own) that those gains really came b/c they switched from something that was low in both volume and intensity (i.e. something like 5/3/1).
What I am interested to hear is if people continue making gains post-Smolov by jumping into a Sheiko program (perhaps one of the later ones) having already built up that work capacity.
I would, of course, like to run the programs as outlined, but having read from others, may consider basing some of the percentages off of a conservative max I want to hit.
Very fair question. I ran smolov twice now (just the base) and both times made a 10-15 kilo gain; first time from 175 to 190 @ 88 kilo bw and the second time from 205 to 215 @ 90 kilo bw. Both times the gains disapeared very quickly.
A couple of friends of mine tried the complete cycle and only one of them survived the intensity cycle. The others all got crushed by the weights somewhere in week 2 or 3. The one that did survive the intensity part actually failed @ max day with a lower weight than he squatted on the test day after the base cycle. So the speed cycle really didnt seem to benifit them… So maybe thats one thing you can rule out.
Maybe just keeping the frequency high and reducing the volume would be the right thing? After all our experiences we think smolov is just mainly intended to peak. Use it for that and start following what you normally do afterwards. Just enjoy the experience and don’t get to caught up with keeping that new squatnumber.
We had the same experiences on smolov for the bench btw.
We are all raw lifters btw. Belt only. No wraps. I can vagualy remember that the intensity cycle must be done in gear, maybe that would solve the problem?
Hope this isn’t a hijack of the thread too badly, but I’m just starting smolov… I will follow the thread to be prepared for the end.
Is smolov intended to be the sole set of lifts, or is there room for work in the other lifts. I unexpectedly needed a spot on the highest rep the other day… Wondering if I had too much else going on.
[quote]drewc64 wrote:
Hope this isn’t a hijack of the thread too badly, but I’m just starting smolov… I will follow the thread to be prepared for the end.
Is smolov intended to be the sole set of lifts, or is there room for work in the other lifts. I unexpectedly needed a spot on the highest rep the other day… Wondering if I had too much else going on.[/quote]
Find the “smolov experience” thread and read it from start to finish. Pretty much every smolov question gets covered.
[quote]Starter26 wrote:
Very fair question. I ran smolov twice now (just the base) and both times made a 10-15 kilo gain; first time from 175 to 190 @ 88 kilo bw and the second time from 205 to 215 @ 90 kilo bw. Both times the gains disapeared very quickly.
A couple of friends of mine tried the complete cycle and only one of them survived the intensity cycle. The others all got crushed by the weights somewhere in week 2 or 3. The one that did survive the intensity part actually failed @ max day with a lower weight than he squatted on the test day after the base cycle. So the speed cycle really didnt seem to benifit them… So maybe thats one thing you can rule out.
Maybe just keeping the frequency high and reducing the volume would be the right thing? After all our experiences we think smolov is just mainly intended to peak. Use it for that and start following what you normally do afterwards. Just enjoy the experience and don’t get to caught up with keeping that new squatnumber.
We had the same experiences on smolov for the bench btw.
We are all raw lifters btw. Belt only. No wraps. I can vagualy remember that the intensity cycle must be done in gear, maybe that would solve the problem?[/quote]
And that next program is what I’m looking for. I guess great minds think alike, though. I too compete sans belt and knee wraps/sleeves. Keep us all posted.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Find the “smolov experience” thread and read it from start to finish. Pretty much every smolov question gets covered. [/quote]
Great resource.
I’ve come back to reality lol. In my attempt to run smolov base back-to-back, I missed the last 4 reps in the 4th (10x3) training session. My form had some breakdown through other training sessions in the first week as well so I decided to cut the program short before I regressed any further. It’s no wonder people never attempt to do this. I would say that I could have had a better shot if I ran both intro weeks instead of just the second, but it’s not a guarantee since the intensity of those intro weeks are still relatively high compared to the switching phase for transitioning into the intense mesocycle.
I thought that skipping the max attempt from the previous smolov cycle would give me enough time to recover but it didn’t. Luckily I had two weeks to waste this year. I’ll be running Sheiko 29,30,31; then 6 weeks of Smolov; and then back to Sheiko 29,30,31,32 leading up to my competition in December. My original plan for the year was to run Smolov Base 3x and Sheiko 29,30,31 2x so the experiment didn’t really backfire lol.
I was able to run Smolov w/ training max at 355 (6 weeks), Sheiko 29 w/ training max at 375, Smolov w/ training max at 375 (5 weeks) successfully, before attempting to run Smolov back-to-back. So running Smolov with Sheiko 29 in between is entirely doable. Smolov teaches you to grind and push to your true limits but comes at the expense of form so I don’t think that it would be ideal to run Smolov as often as possible. Using Smolov Base 3x in a year seems like a good balance for me because the rest of the year I will place greater emphasis on perfect form while doing Sheiko. It’ll be nice going back to Sheiko for awhile and feeling great after a training session than feeling beat down after a Smolov session haha.
[quote]matt.t.geer wrote:
[quote]lift206 wrote:
I’ll definitely consider RTS in the future. I suck at programming volume and that’s why I stalled on 5/3/1 so often. But through all my attempts at modifying certain training variables, I learned that I respond best to high volume and frequency with moderate intensity. I knew I would have to turn to Sheiko and Smolov eventually. Now that I made the switch I only wish I had done it sooner. I wouldn’t bash 5/3/1 because it is highly adaptable to each individual and the ideals of that program are important to learn. I would’ve continued running 5/3/1 if I weren’t competing. It’s best to try it out and learn what works. I will stick with Sheiko and Smolov for at least a couple years before turning to RTS or any other programs.[/quote]
Good deal, man. And when you say Smolov and Sheiko, did you jump into the latter post-Smolov? I know a lot of people boast of the Sheiko gains but fail to disclose (and this is to no fault of their own) that those gains really came b/c they switched from something that was low in both volume and intensity (i.e. something like 5/3/1).
What I am interested to hear is if people continue making gains post-Smolov by jumping into a Sheiko program (perhaps one of the later ones) having already built up that work capacity.
I would, of course, like to run the programs as outlined, but having read from others, may consider basing some of the percentages off of a conservative max I want to hit.
[/quote]
All of my training is based on training maxes which may or may not coincide with my true maxes. As of now I would consider the Smolov base cycle to add 15-20 lbs to my training max. For Sheiko 29,30,31, I would expect to increase both my squat and deadlift by 15-20 lbs but I don’t know for sure until I complete it in 3 months. From my past experience my true max compared to training max for squat is equal to or lower and for deadlift is higher. At my meet 4 months ago, I hit a deadlift of 501 with a training max of 465. Regardless, I don’t let my true max affect the rate at which I change my training max.
[quote]Starter26 wrote:
Very fair question. I ran smolov twice now (just the base) and both times made a 10-15 kilo gain; first time from 175 to 190 @ 88 kilo bw and the second time from 205 to 215 @ 90 kilo bw. Both times the gains disapeared very quickly.
A couple of friends of mine tried the complete cycle and only one of them survived the intensity cycle. The others all got crushed by the weights somewhere in week 2 or 3. The one that did survive the intensity part actually failed @ max day with a lower weight than he squatted on the test day after the base cycle. So the speed cycle really didnt seem to benifit them… So maybe thats one thing you can rule out.
Maybe just keeping the frequency high and reducing the volume would be the right thing? After all our experiences we think smolov is just mainly intended to peak. Use it for that and start following what you normally do afterwards. Just enjoy the experience and don’t get to caught up with keeping that new squatnumber.
We had the same experiences on smolov for the bench btw.
We are all raw lifters btw. Belt only. No wraps. I can vagualy remember that the intensity cycle must be done in gear, maybe that would solve the problem?[/quote]
IMO, the intense cycle of Smolov should only be used for peaking in a meet because it is harder to keep those gains. I have never done it but that is what I would expect. I think that it is entirely possible to keep the gains from Smolov Base. As I stated above, I skipped the max attempts for both cycles and just increased my training max by 20 lbs (do what you think is realistic). I think running Sheiko 29 right after (taking the week off and skipping the max attempt in Smolov Base) with an increase in training max will allow you to sustain the gains and recover from all the high intensity, high volume and high frequency. In the 4 weeks of Sheiko 29, you’re working with squat intensities of 75% in week 1, 80% in week 2, 85% in week 3, and 80% in week 4. You’ll be happy with the transition to lower volume compared to Smolov. Most people like to go for max attempts in the Smolov Base but I don’t see the point because I trust that all of that hard work has increased my squat and I would rather display it in competition. I used to love going for PR attempts often in the gym but found that it hindered my progress. A better indicator for me is comparing my form an ease of attempt at a submaximal weight in the present time and in the future. The beauty with the Sheiko program is that you don’t need to go for max attempts to know you’re making progress. If a rep at 315 looks way better and more controlled in 3 months, then I’ve gotten stronger. This way of thinking, in addition to switching to high volume and frequency, has allowed me to add 40 lbs to my squat in 4 months instead of 30 lbs each year in the past two years.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
I’ve come back to reality lol. In my attempt to run smolov base back-to-back, I missed the last 4 reps in the 4th (10x3) training session. My form had some breakdown through other training sessions in the first week as well so I decided to cut the program short before I regressed any further. It’s no wonder people never attempt to do this. I would say that I could have had a better shot if I ran both intro weeks instead of just the second, but it’s not a guarantee since the intensity of those intro weeks are still relatively high compared to the switching phase for transitioning into the intense mesocycle.
I thought that skipping the max attempt from the previous smolov cycle would give me enough time to recover but it didn’t. Luckily I had two weeks to waste this year. I’ll be running Sheiko 29,30,31; then 6 weeks of Smolov; and then back to Sheiko 29,30,31,32 leading up to my competition in December. My original plan for the year was to run Smolov Base 3x and Sheiko 29,30,31 2x so the experiment didn’t really backfire lol.
I was able to run Smolov w/ training max at 355 (6 weeks), Sheiko 29 w/ training max at 375, Smolov w/ training max at 375 (5 weeks) successfully, before attempting to run Smolov back-to-back. So running Smolov with Sheiko 29 in between is entirely doable. Smolov teaches you to grind and push to your true limits but comes at the expense of form so I don’t think that it would be ideal to run Smolov as often as possible. Using Smolov Base 3x in a year seems like a good balance for me because the rest of the year I will place greater emphasis on perfect form while doing Sheiko. It’ll be nice going back to Sheiko for awhile and feeling great after a training session than feeling beat down after a Smolov session haha.[/quote]
Thanks for the input. I have been talking with another high-volume guy and he too has found success in the juxtaposition of Smolov and Sheiko. Keep me posted on the progress, though, man.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
This way of thinking, in addition to switching to high volume and frequency, has allowed me to add 40 lbs to my squat in 4 months instead of 30 lbs each year in the past two years.[/quote]
I found this to be the case as well and wonder if the results were really nothing more than the temporary supercompensation from the increased workload. I know I have been talking with some other lifters who are bigger advocates of the lower volume akin to what you alluded to (I myself followed a similar path), and the underlying concern many allude to is how much more work it takes to make progress when your body has become conditioned to it.