I’ve wanted to try the infamous Smolov Squat cycle for the best part of a year now and since I’m 18 weeks out to the day from my next competition (WDFPF world champs) and coming off the back of a VERY successful Sheiko cycle ( http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1581528 ) it feels like there’s no time like the present to submit my self to the torture that will no doubt ensue.
I also happen to be working a 9-5.30 desk job at the mo which isn’t at all physically taxing and right in the middle of weight classes too so for once I don’t have to worry about my weight, both of which should be a BIG benefit for Smolov.
A few problems first tho…
-I don’t know if I should base it off my absolute max (circa 190-195kg) or my “training” max (180kg), which is probably about 95% of my actual.
-I don’t know how to set up the assistance work for it.
-I can’t decide whether to do it beltless or not
I’m gonna make a second post with my thoughts on he above now so this doesn’t turn into an essay.
My hat’s off to you if you get through it. I’ve never done Smolov and don’t think I ever will, but I would definitely load conservatively and wear the belt, maybe a notch loose some of the time. There’s also no way I’d add lower body assistance work.
I’m curious, why aren’t you sticking w/ the Sheiko templates leading into your meet? You could run two 9-weekers back to back, or three base phases and one comp phase?
So far I’ve looked at how the figures would work out for 95 and 100% of my max, and the numbers for week 3, day 4 using my actual max look pretty un-doable (177kg 10x3) where as even the 95% numbers look very bloody hard (168kg 10x3). And considering how badly I nearly died on Sheiko writing the cycle off a 185kg squat I�??m thinking 180kg might be the more sensible idea. And besides, the 3 week base phase is only really the warm up before the intense meso which would be based of an actual max.
Now, as for going beltless… I did alot of beltless squatting before I did my first fully equipped squat and I think it helped a phenomnal amount when it came to stabilty and being able to actually support the weight (conservatively I expect 40kg out of my gear), BUT is it anything that can�??t be gained thru direct ab work (cable crunches, leg raises, incline weighted sits ups) and heavy belted squatting. Anyone got any thoughts there?
And finally… bencihing, deadlifting and assistance work. I�??m no fool, I know I�??ll have fuck all energy to do much of anything after all that squatting but unfortunately I won�??t get away with just squatting in compeition. Basically I�??m just gonna keep it simple and something along these lines…
Week 1-3
Day 1:
Sumos 5x3 with 75-80%
Day 2:
Bench 5x3 80% (paused)
Day 3:
Undecided, but probably lunges and speed pulls
Day 4:
2 Board Press 5x3 80%
Anyway… that�??s the bare bones, Ill add in one or 2 more exercises on each day once I figure out what they should be.
Any Smolov vets (hell, anyone) got words of advice?
[quote]Ramo wrote:
My hat’s off to you if you get through it. I’ve never done Smolov and don’t think I ever will, but I would definitely load conservatively and wear the belt, maybe a notch loose some of the time. There’s also no way I’d add lower body assistance work.
I’m curious, why aren’t you sticking w/ the Sheiko templates leading into your meet? You could run two 9-weekers back to back, or three base phases and one comp phase?
Regardless, best of luck…let me know how it goes.[/quote]
I don’t really have 3 hours a day to spend in the gym right now. Sheiko was perfect at the time cos I had literally nothing else on.
Running the 9 week MS/CMS cycle that I did was probably a bad idea too since it was written for lifters far more advanced than I!
Anyway, I just want to try Smolov and see if it’s everything it’s cracked up to be too!!
I usually only do one max set with my training so i wasn’t doing like the 7 or 10 sets, like it says, so just did the one max set, don’t feel the need to do anymore, then threw in some front squats and assistance stuff,
Plus i wasn’t used to the 4 times a week squatting so i did 2 sessions a week this time so it’ll take 8 weeks to do instead of 4, and when i finish this i’ll try it again with 3 sessions a week
Hey Hanley, Big Joe here. Just wanted to give you some advice. I’ve done the SMOLOV multiple times for deadlift and once for squat. I would reccomend a few things. You will pick to do it for deadlift or squat. Nevertheless, kiss training the other lift goodbye. You WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TRAIN IT. Seriously. You WILL NOT BE ABLE TO. You can bench a little during it, but if you squat with the program, DON’T DEADLIFT. If you deadlift with the program, DON’T SQUAT.
Do: Wear a belt.
Do: Take 8 days to do 1 week of the program. You are supposed to lift 4 times a week. This means for example: M, W, F, Sat. Don’t be afraid to go: M, W, F, Sund. The next week will start on Tuesday and go T, R, Sat, Monday. This will save you in the long run.
Don’t: Do the peaking phase unless you want to be training in full gear - knee wraps, suit, etc. Personally, I would do the 4 week base phase now for the deadlift. Then I would take a week off. Then I would hit a near max deadlift raw with just a belt. Then, get back into training all three lifts.
Don’t: Do assistance work. The exception is reverse hyper.
Do: Train bench/floor press lightly on the alternating days. Don’t go heavy. Just keep muscle memory going. Don’t do assistance work for bench. Just do a couple sets of 5.
Do: Expect to lose strength in your squat or deadlift (depending on which one you don’t train) and bench.
Do: Expect to gain strength on the deadlift or squat.
Do: Wear a belt during the base cycle regardless of the lift you choose (s/d).
The good news is you will bring up whatever lift you choose (I’m partial to deadlifting) + you have time to come back and wreck on the other 2 lifts. If you have 18 weeks that is plenty of time.
So once again:
4 week base cycle
1 week OFF completely
1 week max on 3 lifts
Rest of time regain and train all 3
1 week off
Compete
This program took my deadlift from 415 to 465. Then it took my deadlift from 465 to 500. Lastly from 500 to 550. I haven’t used it since and probably never will again. Good luck and hit me up with any quesitons.
I concur with deadlifter except for the part with the belt. I personally never felt the need to use a belt on the Smolov or any other squat routine. But that’s a personal choice.
If you’re not crying and cringing full of pain after the 10x3 on the last squatting day of the week, you’re not doing it right.
There won’t be any thought of deadlifting in you in this cycle if you do it right. The only things you could do, as deadlifter mentioned it, is light bench and maybe some pullups.
Smolov was developed for olympic weightlifters who were weak on the squat and needed to gain bodyweight and legstrenght. It’s a single movement routine, it only brings up the strenght in one movement at the time.
If you want to train the three lifts at once Smolovstyle you have two choices:
Die in agony.
Use the Smolov Junior template.
Ha-ha on the “die in agony” part, as Nelson Munz would say. But you actually got a shot trying the 3 lift Smolov Jr. routine.
I am, for lack of a better description, an Olympic lifter who is weak on the squat and want to gain bodyweight and leg strength. I am also a little crazy and like to punish myself training hard when I can. It sounds like Smolov for squat has my name on it.
However, I’m pretty old (50), and my question is this. Is it brutal just because your legs get dead, sore and scream while training, or is it also very tough on the joints as well? The latter issue is the only concern I would have in trying it. Doc
I really don’t see how you expect these training sessions to be quicker than Sheiko. My raw max is currently 450lbs. At the end of week three, I would be trying (and most likely failing) to hit ten sets of three at 413lbs. That is just ridiculous. I can’t imagine doing that with anything less than five minutes inbetween each set (most likely more).
Smolov is designed for people who have a significant deficiency in their squats (or deadlift). You don’t appear to be lagging in squats. I believe you’d be better off with a more balanced program.
The only way I see this working is if you are taking some “supplements” that are not IPF-approved.
Why don’t you just use the 16 week progression Eric Talmant has posted over on EliteFTS (Sheiko #29, 30, 31, 32)? You only train three days per week and you can get through all of the sessions in two hours or less.
I do think it’s pretty funny that you think you’ll be able to deadlift on top of the squatting. When I read the Smolov routine, I imagine every muscle from my mid-torso down being completely destroyed.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Is it brutal just because your legs get dead, sore and scream while training, or is it also very tough on the joints as well? The latter issue is the only concern I would have in trying it. [/quote]
Well fed, rested and hydrated the joints won’t cause you problems. Its’s more the neverending soreness and the CNS fatigue that causes the problems. Technique has to be flawless to avoid injury. If it’s to hard you can allways fall back on to the Smolov Junior template.
I’ve done the Smolov (perfectly as written at dragondoor by Pavel, for the squat) but I did it for the deadlift. Hardest deadlift cycle I think I’ve ever done. But boy did it work. Read at dragondoor on the Russian Super Squat Cycle and do it precisely as written. Don’t tweak stuff (including days off, or an 8 day week).
Read the two articles “Another Russian Super Cycle”–Pavel goes through the Smolov routine, and “My Smolov Squat Experiment” which an account of a powerlifters journey through it. He also goes over how he structured his maitenence and accessory work. I don’t like how he structured his switching phase though–I would do it pretty much plyo, depth jump and speed based, but that’s my personal op.
You may have already read them both, so this might not matter, but I found that they pretty much got me covered as far as questions when I did it.
The first cycle’s numbers (volume cycle) are based off your best current 1RM w/o a suit. The volume phase you should probably do without a belt or suit. For the Intensity phase Pavel says that equipment choice is up to you but he suggests full contest gear. Since I don’t lift with gear, I used a belt. Initially I tried to not use it at all, but I quickly found out after the first week and a half that that was not working. I then wore the belt for anything 80%+.
Hope that helps…You’re going to love your Power Drive or Spike for helping you survive this and recover. Also, Flameout it a must. Double dose it at LEAST.
The end of the Smolov experiment blog is so true–Was it the Holy Grail for me? Maybe. Would I ever do it again? HELL NO! At least, not for a looooong time…
Hanley, there’s just no way in hell you can hope to complete any real lower body assistance work on the Smolov. Don’t bother. Actually, I found that a PTTP style set up for deadlift and bench helped a lot–kept a groove but didn’t waste me after the inhumane squatting intensity and/or volume (“Smolov exp” blog has something good to say about this at the end).
In fact, the Smolov was the last good use I found for PTTP style work. I really haven’t used it since. It did help a lot though for my bench.
In retrospect, the only thing I’d worry about is upper back, a little bench, and 1-3 DL singles at 80-85% once a week to keep your groove. Nothing more except prehab movements. I’m laughing at your lunges right now…I just wanted to die after squatting. There’s no way I could have even thought about moving any more. Avoid failure like the plague in everything but Squats, b/c it will waste your recovery ability for the CNS. It’s amazing how the small things just destroy your CNS on the Smolov cycle.
You can, however, do this natural and “unassisted”. You’ll just die a little more inside. Joking–kinda.
I hope you end up blogging this because it would be a good read to find out how things work out for you.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
I am, for lack of a better description, an Olympic lifter who is weak on the squat and want to gain bodyweight and leg strength. I am also a little crazy and like to punish myself training hard when I can. It sounds like Smolov for squat has my name on it.
However, I’m pretty old (50), and my question is this. Is it brutal just because your legs get dead, sore and scream while training, or is it also very tough on the joints as well? The latter issue is the only concern I would have in trying it. Doc[/quote]
I dunno. I didn’t feel any joint pain, just chronic soreness. I’d say just mega dose Flameout and go for it. You can always stop if you feel your joints going. It is something I think all serious strength trainees should try once in their lives. I probably would never do it twice. It’s more the mental strain than anything. Remember Poliquin saying you cry at commercials on his “Super-Accumulation phase” ? Yeah, well, I did. I was wasted. But when you finish you know you’ve done something real.
I think since you have Olympic lifting background you’ll probably be ok on the joints, as you guys tend to have plenty of mobility and I don’t often hear of Oly lifters with bad knees. Elbows/shoulders maybe, not knees.
Guys just FYI, this is a really old post. I only made it thru the first 2 weeks of smolov because I cracked my rip with my belt, but my god were the improvements immense. Even on that short space of time I started to feel bullet proof.
Even now I retain a certain confidence when it comes to squatting. Like today I squatted my 3rd attempt (which was also a 30kg PR) from my last comp not even 6 mothns ago for 4 reps. That’s a really sick improvement in my book!
Thanks, Aragorn, for your advice. And yes, I have good knees and bad shoulders. I believe I need about one month more overall conditioning before I’ll get serious about making this kind of committment. But I also think if I DON’T do something like Smolov, my leg strength will hold me back from becoming a serious player in Master’s OL.
Hanley, I like what you said about “retaining a certain confidence” just from doing two weeks of Smolov. Two months ago, my son and I climbed Mt. Chirripo, the tallest mountain in Costa Rica (13,000 ft.) I had never climbed anything before that, and it damn near killed me, especially the altitude sickness. But ever since then, my son and I have this inner confidence that we can accomplish big things when we set our minds to it. Smolov sounds a little like that to me, from what I have read about it. I don’t have the full program, any shortcuts to getting it? Doc
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Thanks, Aragorn, for your advice. And yes, I have good knees and bad shoulders. I believe I need about one month more overall conditioning before I’ll get serious about making this kind of committment. But I also think if I DON’T do something like Smolov, my leg strength will hold me back from becoming a serious player in Master’s OL.
Hanley, I like what you said about “retaining a certain confidence” just from doing two weeks of Smolov. Two months ago, my son and I climbed Mt. Chirripo, the tallest mountain in Costa Rica (13,000 ft.) I had never climbed anything before that, and it damn near killed me, especially the altitude sickness. But ever since then, my son and I have this inner confidence that we can accomplish big things when we set our minds to it. Smolov sounds a little like that to me, from what I have read about it. I don’t have the full program, any shortcuts to getting it? Doc[/quote]