[quote]Myosin wrote:
I am not here to argue if it works or not (which it does).
Just aksing what sort of program people found effective after the one lift a day?[/quote]
I would suggest some of Ian King’s “12 Weeks Of Pain” programs. They are a good way to build back up to a max effort program like “One Lift A Day”.
[quote]ExNole wrote:
I guess I’ll be the first to ask the obvious: what exactly does your miracle program look like Huey?[/quote]
my miracle is MY miracle program. it’s not relevant what i do to make gains.
but many would consider what i do to be on the higher end of volume, and many would probably suggest that ‘program’ would overtrain me quickly <which it doesn’t>.
i can’t really lay out my program anyways, as i don’t really have one. i just do lots of sets of compound movements everday. however there is much method to the madness which i don’t feel like getting into.
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
dan john isn’t formally educated in exercise physiology from what i’ve read.
And therein lies the fallacy that a formal education trumps real life experience.
You obviously have a good bit of knowledge of training principles. You have very little in the way of experience when compared to someone like Dan John, who doesn’t need to be defended by any of us on here btw. I would LOVE to see you try to outcompete Dan John.
DB[/quote]
i wasn’t really trying to suggest that formal education trumps real-life experience. and as far as athletic/exercise physiology goes, i know TONS of chumps in graduate programs who still lack a lot of real-world knowledge about any sort of training <you’re preaching to the choir with that statement>.
i’m just not so sure how much i want to accept Dan John’s statements as absolute truth, or accept his programs as effective/optimum.
Myosin- Since this is your thread, I’ll answer your question.
I think something with more frequency (or more than just working each lift once per week) and a slight bit less volume than OLAD’s week one (instead of 7x5, maybe 4x6) would be best to choose.
Maybe one of Waterbury’s HF kind of programs, or use the high frequency concept and develop your own program possibly. That would probably, errrrr… “offset” doing only one lift per week for 3 or however many weeks you did OLAD. Should at least be a nice little change.
Just my two cents.
[/quote]I guess I’ll be the first to ask the obvious: what exactly does your miracle program look like Huey?
…my miracle is MY miracle program. it’s not relevant what i do to make gains[/quote]
Fahhhk Maaaaan, after all this you cant even step up. I’m disgusted, i was holding out for you, i should have listened to my initial instinct. Your a waste of mine and everyone elses time.
[/quote]i can’t really lay out my program anyways, as i don’t really have one. i just do lots of sets of compound movements everday. however there is much method to the madness which i don’t feel like getting into. [/quote]
WTF!?!? This is kinda like a bad accident, i shouldnt look, i know its gonna be bad, but i just cant help myself!?!?!?
Your a car wreck Huey. A big smoldering wreck on the side of the road. Get that mess outta here and let traffic resume.
I started reading this thread and by page two I realized it’s nothing but a troll getting REALLY freakin fat from all the feeding. My God, I feel dumber for having read any of it.
[quote]jdearl wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I actually agree with a lot of what huey has been saying on here. I think he’s kind of gone about it in an arrogant way, but that’s just some people’s style, so whatever. I think a lot of the problem that people are having is the “fanboyism” that a lot of people have towards the authors on this site. I think a lot of times the hero worship that these authors get is very deserved because they are all very qualified and provide a lot of great advice for free.
Of course, Huey is right about the importance of high volume training. High volume training is a good thing, and none of the responses that I have seen have said that it isn’t.
If anyone can be accused of fanboyism it’s Huey. As far as he is concerned if it isn’t high volume then its crap (or to use his terminology, it’s for “noobs”), and that’s just stupid. If getting stronger was as easy as simply doing piles of sets and adding weight to the bar every week then every one of us here would be lifting pickup trucks over our heads.
There’s nothing “noobish” about mixing in a cycle of OLAD. Quite the opposite. If you stick to a high volume routine year round then you are almost certainly giving up gains. Unless, of course, you are on the juice. But that’s a whole different ball o’ twine.
jtrinsey wrote:
However, just because Dan John likes a program or thinks it’s hard, doesn’t mean it’s beyond reproach. I feel like a lot of people are just attacking him because he’s attacking OLAD and not evaluating and responding to the points he has attempted to make.
Of course not, there are entire threads where Dan John discusses OLAD variations with people. Dan is a personable guy with a lot of experience, but he doesn’t pretend to be the grand high poobah of training. His advice is invariable, “I don’t know. Go try it.”
No one is arguing that high volume high frequency workouts aren’t important too. In fact, someone responded that a Waterbury style workout would be a good way to follow up a cycle of OLAD.
Huey basically barged in to a thread about what to do following an OLAD cycle with “people that do OLAD are noobs.” What do you expect us to do, give the guy a cookie? I mean seriously this is the exact quote:
one lift a day seems like a real dumb training protocol to me… unless you’re a total noob to training. it’s not enough work to get serious gains. anyone with an even moderate level of conditioning should be able to handle much much much more volume of training.
Quite frankly, that’s crap. Someone that only does high volume training is the one that’s the noob. Mixing in a cycle of something different is good.
jtrinsey wrote:
All training programs should attempt to raise somebody’s peak performance as well as their ability to handle both volume (fatigue) and frequency. I think what huey is calling a “noob” is a trainee who doesn’t have very developed frequency and fatigue tolerances. It’s possible for people to have trained for a long time but not to have raised their toleration to a specific type of training. I believe that proper training and sequencing should address this. The problem with following a general training program is that you are kind of guessing and hoping that it will fit your needs.
Yes, and I would argue that someone is equally a “noob” if they have always tried to increase their frequency and fatigue tolerance and have never worked towards increasing limit strength.
I would agree with Huey that only a noob would do OLAD all of the time, but I would also add that anyone that only does one kind of training (whatever kind that might be) is equally a noob.
jtrinsey wrote:
I think that at some point a trainee should develop the work capacity to handle more work than OLAD. I don’t think it means that OLAD is only for noobs, but I think that exercise selection must be done carefully so that they fit properly.
Precisely, but that’s not what Huey is saying.
Here’s the basic argument.
Huey: Volume is King! Everything else is for noobs.
Everyone else: Volume is great, but periodization is important if you don’t want to stagnate.
Huey: You are a noob.
Now, if that is not an accurate description of Huey’s argument then I apologize to Huey.[/quote]
That was a really good post and pretty accurate for the most part I think. I too have been dissapointed by some of Huey’s most recent posts.
so since i can’t lay out my program for you i am a car wreck?
what do i stand to gain from laying out all the principles of training that i follow and what i’m currently doing to accomplish my objectives?
as if i’m going to write out pages of material for some noob flamer.
It only makes sense that one might demonstrate what it is that they know in a tangible and well thought out post after i dont know how many pages of insight you have offered us.
To not do so is highly suspect. It suggests you are indeed full of shit.
[quote]Leafblighter wrote:
I started reading this thread and by page two I realized it’s nothing but a troll getting REALLY freakin fat from all the feeding. My God, I feel dumber for having read any of it.[/quote]
I feel even dumber for having particpated in the feeding.
OLAD is a great program. After I did it in the fall I did a 3 day a week full body program and took long walks with a 40 pound back pack on my off days.
I am doing OLAD again right now and I like seeing everyone elses suggestions.
[quote]violatepropriety wrote:
It only makes sense that one might demonstrate what it is that they know in a tangible and well thought out post after i dont know how many pages of insight you have offered us.
To not do so is highly suspect. It suggests you are indeed full of shit.
[/quote]
it doesn’t suggest shit. all this thread suggest is that you are a flamer who gets your panties all bunched up when someone doesn’t stand with the herd.
you cannot expect me to lay out my training principles and protocols, since they are largely freestyled/done on instinct.
i’m not the novice who needs routines to be made up for me from a website. i’ve been training long enough <and i’ve been lucky enough to learn from some great guys, who are stronger and/or more jacked than most of the authors on this site, not that that is the determining factor of one’s knowledge…> to know what i need better than what any generic program can offer me.
regardless, my training methodologies are complex, and when i feel it is worthwhile i will share what i do regarding this aspect of training or that in the relevant threads. but i’m not about to lay out pages upon pages of training in order to feed a noob flamer.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
i’m not the novice who needs routines to be made up for me from a website. i’ve been training long enough <and i’ve been lucky enough to learn from some great guys, who are stronger and/or more jacked than most of the authors on this site, not that that is the determining factor of one’s knowledge…> to know what i need better than what any generic program can offer me.
[/quote]
So did I, and I still think you are a jackass
aahaha… ok feedings over. good night. i look forward to looking at this car wreck in the morning, i assume it will still be smoldering.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Leafblighter wrote:
I started reading this thread and by page two I realized it’s nothing but a troll getting REALLY freakin fat from all the feeding. My God, I feel dumber for having read any of it.
I feel even dumber for having particpated in the feeding.
OLAD is a great program. After I did it in the fall I did a 3 day a week full body program and took long walks with a 4 pound back pack on my off days.
I am doing OLAD again right now and I like seeing everyone elses suggestions.[/quote]
Yeah, I feel dumb too. I will add one more thing. While frequency is important for strength, I have found that once in a while, really working like hell on one lift and trashing yourself followed by not doing that lift for about a week (but of course, doing other lifts as OLAD recommends) works extremely well for gaining strength. At least in my experience. I don’t know why this is. Your mileage may vary.
Zap, what is your diet like? Are you eating maintenance calories or “bulking?”
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
…
Zap, what is your diet like? Are you eating maintenance calories or “bulking?”[/quote]
I am basically eating maintenace but I put on a few pounds over the winter anyway.
My main focus has been to bring leg strength back to what it was before I tore up my ACL a few years ago. I think I am almost there.
I am also trying to shed a little fat. My waist is slowly shrinking so it is all working.
Slow and steady is the way for me at this point. Once I get back to where I was pre-injury I will have to pick some new goals.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
MikeTheBear wrote:
…
Zap, what is your diet like? Are you eating maintenance calories or “bulking?”
I am basically eating maintenace but I put on a few pounds over the winter anyway.
My main focus has been to bring leg strength back to what it was before I tore up my ACL a few years ago. I think I am almost there.
I am also trying to shed a little fat. My waist is slowly shrinking so it is all working.
Slow and steady is the way for me at this point. Once I get back to where I was pre-injury I will have to pick some new goals.[/quote]
Thanks, Zap. I’ve found that low volume (really low volume) strength routines go very well with dieting. Good luck with that knee. I’ve known people who tore their ACL and they really suck (the ACL tears, not the people).
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
MikeTheBear wrote:
…
Zap, what is your diet like? Are you eating maintenance calories or “bulking?”
I am basically eating maintenace but I put on a few pounds over the winter anyway.
My main focus has been to bring leg strength back to what it was before I tore up my ACL a few years ago. I think I am almost there.
I am also trying to shed a little fat. My waist is slowly shrinking so it is all working.
Slow and steady is the way for me at this point. Once I get back to where I was pre-injury I will have to pick some new goals.[/quote]
Good luck with the knee. I’m on that long knee recovery road myself (Reconstructed 2yrs, 2 months ago). Its tough, but it feels great to be near the end and feeling normal again.
I can’t believe this is still being discussed with so LITTLE progress. Are you all familiar with:
Godwin's law - Wikipedia
I’m expecting it to apply some time soon.
Anyway, the root cause of the disagreement between Huey and “the world” seems to be the value of volume and frequency (which is really just volume on a longer time scale) to the advanced trainee.
The fact that OLAD is a moving target and that it is only a four week program (one of which is a week of rest) makes the discussion that much more difficult. Regardless …
Huey has made the claim that OLAD does not provide sufficient volume for the advanced trainee. Huey, I think the problem is that people won’t take your word for it that this is the case. Where is your evidence?
Others seems to rely on personal experience and anecdotes … there are lots of advanced guys who can only deadlift one a week/month/mesocycle because it “takes so much out of them” … and this is elite level lifters that can move large vehicles in the pull. So, let’s get specific. Who are these big boys and is it only heavy deadlifting that they keep on the way side? What about some … gasp … science?
So, who is ready to pull out their Supertraining and stop using it for one board presses.
One last note: the fallacy of fallacies is that the commission of a fallacy makes the conclusion wrong. (Actually, this is a form of Denying the Antecedent applied to a multi-step argument).
Regards,
Mark
what science do you need regarding my statements?
is someone going to disagree that as an athlete advances he/she can tolerate more volume, more frequency, shorter rest times, etc?
i don’t need to quote pubmed documents to illustrate this. and there is no science behind OLAD, either. if you don’t ask dan john for scientific journals, why are you asking me for them?
this thread is getting out of hand, i’ve explained the limitations of OLAD for advanced lifters, i’ve explained why <advanced athletes need more work! this is a no brainer!>, and where OLAD falls short in providing what is necessary for an advanced lifter in order to make gains.
yes, OLAD is better than flex magazine routines for most people, but it’s only purpose in an advanced lifter’s <and especially for someone who is primarily concerned about aesthetics/bodybuilding> schedule would be for down time when necessary <busy with work, school, etc>.
not enough frequency, not enough total volume, not enough diversity… thumbs down on OLAD.
First OLAD was for “noobs” now it is not good for advanced lifters.
Since there are very few people that can be considered advanced there is no reason to give it a thumbs down.
Two thumbs up for OLAD.