Critique My Upper/Lower Split Please

Training
1

I have been trying to progress on 5x5 beginner routines for a year and it has only brought me CNS fatigue. I believe I’m best suited to the 6-10 rep range. I feel great training in that range, and I progress even faster than 5x5 LPs. I have found what works for me in that regard and recommendations to a beginner routine will be ignored, this is not why I started this thread. Anyhow, this is the upper/lower split that I’m currently following, please critique.

Monday
A1)DB Bench Press 3x8
A2)DB Rows 3x8
B1)DB Overhead Press 4x12
B2)Pull ups 50 reps
C1)Extensions 3x12
C2)Curls 3x12

Tuesday
Squat 3x8
Stiff Legged Deadlift 4x12
Calf Raises 2x20
Lateral Raise/Rear Delt Raise superset 2x15 each

Thursday
A1)DB Overhead Press 3x8
A2)Weighted Chin Ups 3x8
B1)Incline DB Press 4x12
B2)Dumbbell Rows 4x12
C1)Extensions 3x12
C2)Curls 3x12

Friday
Deadlift 1x5+
Squat 4x12
Calf Raises 2x20
Lateral Raise/Rear Delt Raise superset 2x15 each

I found that I can do alternate sets of opposing movements without harming performance on upper body days, so I do it to save time. I use dumbbells for pressing because I have been using barbells ineffectively for one year, while dumbbell movements feel perfect and I can progress on them quite well. Once I hit the prescribed reps, I increase the weight. I micro load dumbbells, going up in 2.5 pound increments on each side. With the deadlift, I increase the weight every week until I get five reps only, then I deload by 10% and start again.

2

What is the point of your training? What is the goal(s)? Aesthetics, strength, sports, etc…

At 18 CNS fatigue shouldn’t be in your vocabulary. Are you eating enough food? How long have you been training?

3

“I’m best suited in the 6-8 rep range”
I’m not saying it’s wrong, but your program is basically 8-12

4

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What is the point of your training? What is the goal(s)? Aesthetics, strength, sports, etc…
[/quote]

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.

[quote]At 18 CNS fatigue shouldn’t be in your vocabulary. Are you eating enough food? How long have you been training?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it is. My diet consisted of a pound of meat, 6 eggs (which puts me at 120 grams of protein) and the rest is whatever I want as long as it gets me above 3000 calories a day. Everything combined usually got me 140-165 grams of protein and I weigh 150. 7-8 hours of sleep a day. I have been training for 2 years. First year was fucking around cluelessly, second was a failed attempt at getting serious and building strength via 5x5. I feel great with higher reps though.

5

[quote]chobbs wrote:
“I’m best suited in the 6-8 rep range”
I’m not saying it’s wrong, but your program is basically 8-12[/quote]
I said I’m best suited to the 6-10 rep range. My split lets me hit 6 reps regularly. If I get 3x8 with dumbbell bench, I increase the weight. Next session I get 3x6, then 2x7 1x6, then 1x8 2x7 and so on. The highest I go is 12 on some movements and I increase the weight once I hit 12 on those movements.

6

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.
[/quote]
Maybe I took this wrong but this attitude isn’t going to get you shit here

7

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What is the point of your training? What is the goal(s)? Aesthetics, strength, sports, etc…
[/quote]

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.

[quote]At 18 CNS fatigue shouldn’t be in your vocabulary. Are you eating enough food? How long have you been training?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it is. My diet consisted of a pound of meat, 6 eggs (which puts me at 120 grams of protein) and the rest is whatever I want as long as it gets me above 3000 calories a day. Everything combined usually got me 140-165 grams of protein and I weigh 150. 7-8 hours of sleep a day. I have been training for 2 years. First year was fucking around cluelessly, second was a failed attempt at getting serious and building strength via 5x5. I feel great with higher reps though.[/quote]

I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I doubt very much a basic 5 X 5 program is resulting in CNS fatigue when you are consuming 3,000 calories a day and weigh 150 pounds. Lifting heavy things is hard work.

Do what you want, but the 10-12 rep range isn’t going to get you very “strong”.

My advise, take it or leave it, get the “CNS fatigue” idea out of your mind. It’s an excuse for 99% of the population.

8

[quote]chobbs wrote:

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.
[/quote]
Maybe I took this wrong but this attitude isn’t going to get you shit here[/quote]

I mean no harm, but I see people getting flamed for posting questions that are not suitable to the sub forum, so I made sure to point that out.

9

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What is the point of your training? What is the goal(s)? Aesthetics, strength, sports, etc…
[/quote]

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.

[quote]At 18 CNS fatigue shouldn’t be in your vocabulary. Are you eating enough food? How long have you been training?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it is. My diet consisted of a pound of meat, 6 eggs (which puts me at 120 grams of protein) and the rest is whatever I want as long as it gets me above 3000 calories a day. Everything combined usually got me 140-165 grams of protein and I weigh 150. 7-8 hours of sleep a day. I have been training for 2 years. First year was fucking around cluelessly, second was a failed attempt at getting serious and building strength via 5x5. I feel great with higher reps though.[/quote]

I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I doubt very much a basic 5 X 5 program is resulting in CNS fatigue when you are consuming 3,000 calories a day and weigh 150 pounds. Lifting heavy things is hard work.

Do what you want, but the 10-12 rep range isn’t going to get you very “strong”.

My advise, take it or leave it, get the “CNS fatigue” idea out of your mind. It’s an excuse for 99% of the population. [/quote]

This idea is what kept me going through a full year with the program. However, I used to dread going to the gym and it was a huge burden. Also, wouldn’t the 6-8 range work as well? It’s not that far off and I’m doing each movement at least once a week in the 6-8 rep range.
The CNS fatigue is not a idea in my head, but a reality I’ve been living for a whole year. Maybe I’m using the wrong terms, but my recovery sucked, workouts were awkward, my strength often decreased and I had to deload frequently. I just wanna know if this split is balanced and not waste another year.

10

[quote]chobbs wrote:

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.
[/quote]
Maybe I took this wrong but this attitude isn’t going to get you shit here[/quote]

In his defense, if people posted their quesitons in the correct sub-forums it would be obvious what his intent was. Alas, that doesn’t always happen.

11

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[quote]Mina293 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What is the point of your training? What is the goal(s)? Aesthetics, strength, sports, etc…
[/quote]

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.

[quote]At 18 CNS fatigue shouldn’t be in your vocabulary. Are you eating enough food? How long have you been training?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it is. My diet consisted of a pound of meat, 6 eggs (which puts me at 120 grams of protein) and the rest is whatever I want as long as it gets me above 3000 calories a day. Everything combined usually got me 140-165 grams of protein and I weigh 150. 7-8 hours of sleep a day. I have been training for 2 years. First year was fucking around cluelessly, second was a failed attempt at getting serious and building strength via 5x5. I feel great with higher reps though.[/quote]

I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I doubt very much a basic 5 X 5 program is resulting in CNS fatigue when you are consuming 3,000 calories a day and weigh 150 pounds. Lifting heavy things is hard work.

Do what you want, but the 10-12 rep range isn’t going to get you very “strong”.

My advise, take it or leave it, get the “CNS fatigue” idea out of your mind. It’s an excuse for 99% of the population. [/quote]

This idea is what kept me going through a full year with the program. However, I used to dread going to the gym and it was a huge burden. Also, wouldn’t the 6-8 range work as well? It’s not that far off and I’m doing each movement at least once a week in the 6-8 rep range.
The CNS fatigue is not a idea in my head, but a reality I’ve been living for a whole year. Maybe I’m using the wrong terms, but my recovery sucked, workouts were awkward, my strength often decreased and I had to deload frequently. I just wanna know if this split is balanced and not waste another year.
[/quote]

I can understand your frustrations. It just seems odd to me. Were you consistent? What I mean is, did you have a bad day or week and then take 2 weeks off, and then go back and you were weaker? That type of thing. You have to force your body to adapt, which it doesn’t always want to do.

The 6-8 rep range, to me, is the jack of all trades master of none, rep range. IMO, it’ll work for a while, but strength gains will be less than those of a lower rep range (in general) and will diminish over time.

You might find the attached table helpful.

12

Also note, Mina293, I’m not saying you need to do 5X5. If you like higer rep work, go for it.

13

You can do whatever you want, if you didn’t progress with a good 5x5 routine then there’s was something wrong you were doing dietwise. You’re not going to magically progress because you’re now doing 3 more reps on average lol. I’d drop the supersets, add hamstring curls to your leg days and forget about regular deadlifting, only do stiff legged deads or romanian deads. Take off the db presses and instead do upright rows or side lateral raises and take off the delt work you’re doing on friday.

14

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mina293 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What is the point of your training? What is the goal(s)? Aesthetics, strength, sports, etc…
[/quote]

Goal is to get bigger and stronger, that’s why I posted in this subforum.

[quote]At 18 CNS fatigue shouldn’t be in your vocabulary. Are you eating enough food? How long have you been training?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it is. My diet consisted of a pound of meat, 6 eggs (which puts me at 120 grams of protein) and the rest is whatever I want as long as it gets me above 3000 calories a day. Everything combined usually got me 140-165 grams of protein and I weigh 150. 7-8 hours of sleep a day. I have been training for 2 years. First year was fucking around cluelessly, second was a failed attempt at getting serious and building strength via 5x5. I feel great with higher reps though.[/quote]

I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I doubt very much a basic 5 X 5 program is resulting in CNS fatigue when you are consuming 3,000 calories a day and weigh 150 pounds. Lifting heavy things is hard work.

Do what you want, but the 10-12 rep range isn’t going to get you very “strong”.

My advise, take it or leave it, get the “CNS fatigue” idea out of your mind. It’s an excuse for 99% of the population. [/quote]

This idea is what kept me going through a full year with the program. However, I used to dread going to the gym and it was a huge burden. Also, wouldn’t the 6-8 range work as well? It’s not that far off and I’m doing each movement at least once a week in the 6-8 rep range.
The CNS fatigue is not a idea in my head, but a reality I’ve been living for a whole year. Maybe I’m using the wrong terms, but my recovery sucked, workouts were awkward, my strength often decreased and I had to deload frequently. I just wanna know if this split is balanced and not waste another year.
[/quote]

I can understand your frustrations. It just seems odd to me. Were you consistent? What I mean is, did you have a bad day or week and then take 2 weeks off, and then go back and you were weaker? That type of thing. You have to force your body to adapt, which it doesn’t always want to do.

The 6-8 rep range, to me, is the jack of all trades master of none, rep range. IMO, it’ll work for a while, but strength gains will be less than those of a lower rep range (in general) and will diminish over time.

You might find the attached table helpful.
[/quote]

I took 10 days off once and it took me 2 weeks to work back up to my previous weights. It is logical that the 6-8 range wouldn’t build as much strength, but I read somewhere that doing a movement in the 6-8 range and complimenting it with a lighter movement in the 10-12 range is optimal for building muscle and some strength. That’s why I aim more towards getting bigger now, as it’s more achievable. The table was definitely helpful, will need it again in the future. Overall, thanks for your input man. I appreciate that you took the time to help a noob out.

15

[quote]myself1992 wrote:
You can do whatever you want, if you didn’t progress with a good 5x5 routine then there’s was something wrong you were doing dietwise. You’re not going to magically progress because you’re now doing 3 more reps on average lol. I’d drop the supersets, add hamstring curls to your leg days and forget about regular deadlifting, only do stiff legged deads or romanian deads. Take off the db presses and instead do upright rows or side lateral raises and take off the delt work you’re doing on friday.[/quote]

Noted. I will do snatch grip deadlifts and Stiff legged deadlifts instead of conventional ddeadlifts. I’ll also add 3x10 Ham curls instead of the laterals and try to progress slowly on those. Is there a better alternative to upright rows? I don’t wanna risk injuring my shoulders. High pulls maybe? And where do i fit in rear delt work?

16

As kind of state above by myself1992, as long as you bust your balls IN MY OPINION you can make gains on any program.

17

I find the idea that 5 reps = CNS fatigue, but 6-8 reps is like sweet butter on your corn bread to be really bizarre. Obviously, if you don’t believe in a 5 rep scheme you shouldn’t do it, because you should never do a program you don’t believe in, but I am 100% positive you were not suffering from CNS fatigue. That is, unless you suffer from the dreaded fiverepandbelowitis, in which case, it was definitely CNS fatigue.

18

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I find the idea that 5 reps = CNS fatigue, but 6-8 reps is like sweet butter on your corn bread to be really bizarre. Obviously, if you don’t believe in a 5 rep scheme you shouldn’t do it, because you should never do a program you don’t believe in, but I am 100% positive you were not suffering from CNS fatigue. That is, unless you suffer from the dreaded fiverepandbelowitis, in which case, it was definitely CNS fatigue.[/quote]

increasing the weight once i get 5 reps fatigues me, because it’s really 3-5 not just 5. Lets say i get 3 reps on bench press, then 4 next workout, then 5 the workout after that. If i don’t get the reps in 3 workouts I deload, but if I do, I increase the weight. This is basically SL 5x5, which I was following. I deloaded more than I can remember. For me, 3-5 doesn’t lend itself well to recovery as 6-8 and 10-12 do.

19

I like your routine outline. I’m guessing your shoulders are what you are trying to bring up most (with attention to rear delts)? I would add lunges on your leg days. I am the same way with working out opposing muscle groups. It doesn’t affect my lifts, actually feel like it helps them, and I feel good doing my workouts this way

20

Your program is fine. You are 18, so forget about “CNS fatigue” training 4 days a week.

Your problem (assuming) is your diet. I doubt you are tracking it right. If you are consuming 3K cals from high quality food, there should be no reason you are not progression.

How many grams of protein?

How is your PWO nutrition? Outline it.