I’m 17, and I have been experiencing knee problems in both of my knees for the last month or so. It feels as if my knee caps are scrapping against something, and is quite painful when performing anything other than 1/4 squats. I went to the doctor today and he said that I shouldn’t be doing anything more than like a 1/3 squat due to the large strain it puts on my knees, he also said he dosn’t advise that anyone do anymore than this for a range of motion. I can’t really think of any other reasons except maybe my recent track involvement with the high jump, that would cause this problem.
I’m wondering, is he full of shit? Or does he actually know what he’s talking about?
If you have knee problems don’t do leg extensions and go very slowly (slow as in moving up in weight and slow as in lifting slowly: like 6 seconds down, 2 seconds pause, and 6 seconds up) This info is from my doctor, dude, not me.
I have bad knees from endurance running after high school and long distance running during high school. My doctor suggested weight training as a sport and gave me a few pointers. He said that running will cause more damage to your knees than heavy weight trainning, and any runner that doesn't train with squats and deadlifts may as well prepay thier knee surgery.
Does that help?
Anyway…go slower and back off on the weight just a little.
Oh…forgot to add that I have a doctor’s appointment tomorrow afternoon. I’ll ask him about the 1/2 and 1/3 squat thing. He never mentioned anything to me about partial squats.
You probably have chrondomalacia (abnormal patellar or knee cap tracking)…Oftentimes caused by a muscular imbalance between various muscles of the quadriceps. Since you are a jumper what’s most likely happened is you’ve overworked the 1/3 squat movement too much in your training and your jumping. Think about it…when you jump do you ever descend further then a 1/3 squat? Volleyball players also get this condition quite often. One solution is to do deep full squats. Charles Poliquin talks about this in his book “The Poliquin Principles.” What will happen is your vastus medialis will become more in balance with your vastus lateralis which has the effect of pulling your knee cap back in a straight line. Having said this I really wouldn’t recommend you do anything until you get your condition evaluated by a COMPETENT sports medical practioner. Most G.P’s are a long ways off when it comes to evaluating sports injuries. You’d have much better luck and also a cheaper bill with a chiropractor…especially a chiropractor who specializes in sports medicine.
Josh…My doctor advised me to do only 1/3 squats also because of knee problems (originally thought to be OA). But then, my MRI showed no signs of OA. So, the diagnosis then became patella-femoral syndrome. They prescribed 8 weeks of physical therapy which consisted of A LOT of weighted straight leg raises. Sit on the floor with one knee bent and the other straight and weighted at the ankle. I did hundreds and hundreds of those to build the front thigh muscles above the knee (VOC?). That was a tremendous help and my knees don’t bother me anymore, even during and after a workout with squats and lunges. But, now I always do those weighted straight leg raises on leg day also.
He also told me a story of when he was in the Army, they made the guys do 'duck walks', which was squating butt to floor and then 'walking' that way. It would look like a catcher walking the bases in the squatting position. According to the Dr., it was the stupidest of all exercises and a lot of those guys developed knee problems. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, just relaying the story.
Are you a tall guy? Do you have long femurs? I do. That’s what’s caused a lot of knee problems for me. I won’t give oyu medical advice, but here’s some observations from my own experience.
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High jump can place high impact and twisting forces on the knee, so yes, that probably isn’t helping.
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I think Jay’s spot on with the leg extension bit.
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For me, partial squats make the problem worse. Stopping the weight part way down hurts more than hyper flexion.
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The best thing you can do is see a physio or some such physical therapist.
I’ve done full range of motion squats for twenty years, and never hurt my knees. You do have to learn to squat properly. I’ve always pushed my hip down and back simultaneously, which kept my lower leg perpedicular to the ground. I’ve developed a lot of solid hip and thigh mass as a result.
Also look for an ART provider. I treat conditions such as yours all the time with great success. Your average family doc has limited knowledge with such things. Personally, I think it was the jumping, but I’d have to examine you and see you lift.
Just to weigh in with my two cents, I’ve had a lot of patello-femoral problems in the past six months. While I disagree with the leg extension suggestion due to the tensile force placed on the patellar lig/Quad tendon and therefore knee cap itself, Irondoc hs made a good point. Squat properly and a lot of the problems go out the window. HOWEVER, One magic remedy I found to decrease the irritation occurring in my femoral groove due to the cartilage degeneration was to stretch the quads and hams and therefore decrease the pressure against the patella (increased length of quads).
Still you have to go to a Sports Doctor or Physio/Rehab guy. Keep in mind that most GP’s graduate in the bottom 10% of their classes and the smart top ten go on to specialize. So not only is your GP not a specialist for the type of problem you’re having, he’s not as smart as the specialist. Irondoc, What do you think?
I agrre Big Rob. I got into chiropractic foolowing a powerlifting back injury in coolege. The gp’s said the old don’t lift and take this. I knew even as a teenager that I didn’t have a muscle relaxant deficiency, but a funtional problem. My family physician was also 100 lbs. overweight. I thought, yeah right. He sounded like the teacher on Charlie Brown. WAh wah wah. I went to a sports oriented chiropractor who helped me with what to do. Could you imagine a gp telling you to do one arm rows with good form instead of two arm rows. And letting you squat and deadlift, let alone looking at the stretches you do and giving you the go ahead. The best thing to do is to ask the best and smartest jocks who they go to. My clientele has a few millionare triathletes, an olympic athlete, pharmist 40 yo soccer moms that do the boston marathon. They have the brains and bucks to go anywhere.
In case you need to know I can do 275 for 20 breaking paralell in the squat, with never having a knee injury. Done right squats will strengthen yours knees, once they get fixed.
I just want to add my two-cents as well. I had excruciating knee pain at one time that the doctors couldn’t diagnose and they all kept telling me to stop doing what made it hurt (squats, running, etc). Anyway, I went to a chiropractor and to make this short, I basically wasn’t stretching enough- I thought I was but all my hamstring stretches were ineffecient and targeting my lower back. And my quad stretches weren’t hitting the muscle efficiently at all. And getting into those hip-flexors! That helped immensely but that kind of stretching is very specific- if you are sitting all day in class I am sure your hip-flexors have shortened. Anyway, I combined some intensive stretching with deep-tissue massage and have had no problems since- (and it was so bad that I couldn’t walk a couple of blocks). One last thing- it is real important to be wearing the proper shoes. If you run a lot (being a high-jumper I assume you do some kind of sprinting) then go to a shop dedicated to running and have them help you with shoes.
Alright dude…this is what my Doc told me.
Remember: My doctor’s lean and pretty muscular. So he isn’t the mushy doctor that alot of people have to go to.
Doc says: You should always go for full range of motion. And instead of deadlifts or regular squats, do one-leg squats with dumbells. And stretch all of the muscles in the legs before and after you lift (he said that three times during my appointment). He said he couldn’t give you any more advice with out examining you himself.
GOOD LUCK!
I always do what my doctor tells me because he isn't a fat guy sitting on a little stool pretending to know everything.
Sheez, what’s up with all the knee jerk reactions against leg extensions?–pun intended! I have had bad knee pains that turned out to be infrapatellar fat pad impingement. During my year-long saga before the correct diagnosis, I’ve had a lot of time to research the subject. Most patello-femoral knee pain is due to weakness of the vastus medialus obliquus muscle (VMO). This is the quad muscle farthest toward the middle of the body. This weakness causes the patella to grind against the outer surface of the femoral groove. One of the best ways to strengthen this muscle is to do partial range leg extensions. The VMO activates like crazy in the last 30 degrees of extension. By using only 30 degrees of extension, you are forced to use light weights. Focus on really crunching the muscle and lower to a count of three. Maintain steady tension on the muscle. Give this a try for about four weeks. Good luck!
A few more questions might give you the answer yourself. Is your pain in the front of your knees as is it caused by narrow or shoulder-width stance. Do you intiate the movement from pushing your buttocks back or bending at the knees? Has he diagnosed this as a patella problem.
Also ask yourself how strong are your hamstrings? Do you typically ham curl as opposed to performing glute ham or good mornings.
If you answer those questions, you might be able to quickly figure out the question. If I can be of help feel free to email me.
In faith,
Hyok is exactly right. It was the VMO that the physical therapists focused on with my patella-femoral knee problem. In fact, after limping around for a few weeks before I made it to PT, that one muscle had trouble “turning on” at all. That was very scary and suprising, considering I had been exercising and was in pretty decent shape. I don’t know how I ended up with such a muscle imbalance.
Basically, I did three main exercises, all of them sitting on a flat surface with legs straight in front of me. 1-straight leg raises with weights around my ankle. 2-extensions with leg over a bolster with weights around my ankle. 3-leg flat and pushing the back of my knee to the floor as hard as I could (with electric stim).
During the same time, I had three ART sessions and ultrasound. Then, I was good to go. I ALWAYS get that muscle on leg day now. That’s not something I care to go through again!
Hyok has the leg extensions right for less severe VMO strength imbalances. In more severe cases, a straight leg raise can help. Foot position is important, though. Make sure the foot is turned outward (as if doing a duck-walk), and pull the toes up as far as possible. This really activates the vastus medialus. Remember, of the four quad muscles, the vastus medialus is the only one that pulls the kneecap toward the body centerline, so it need to be proportionately stronger than the others. Cycling can also help.
Try to supplement your diet with omega 3s, from flax seed oil. Use fish oils, and eat lots of fish including salmon. Another good supplement would be one that combines Methyl-Sulfonyl-Methane (MSM), Glucosamine sulfate, and Chondroitin sulfate. Also use knee raps on all heavy leg exercises. Inzer makes very good knee raps.
JOSH!
I had the same problems when I was 19 thru the age of 21. It lasted three yrs! No fun. I tried everything!!! UNTIL, I met a Chiropracter that studied Kineslogy. (Spelling isn’t all there) His name is Dr. Steve Short here in Vero Bch. Fl. He’s awesome. He fixed my knees in about 6-8 weeks. I now have no knee pain or problems! Yes!!! I do full squats, hindu squats, sprinting at the track, tennis on the hard courts without no pain. Part of problem was the tear drop muscle in my quad. They’re weren’t strong enough. Work on those muscles & do some really good stretching & ice after any type of workout or sporting event. No more high jump until your knees show improvement! Also, buy a couple of Cho- Pats. They’re kinda like big rubber bands covered with cloth. They go around the knees under the patella & keep them in place. Use them for now so your knees track the proper way. But listen! Don’t rely on them forever! Get the problem taken care of before it gets any worse! One more thing! Take some Knox geltain with some orange juice once or twice a day. It works wonders with the joints! Take care & good luck!