[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Great thread KB, really liked the workout and nutritions posts, nice to see as I train in a fairly similar way.
How do you handle your week off? I can never stay away from the gym for more than 3 days. It’s hard to break the addiction, especially since there are few things better than the 1-2 hours after an epic lift.[/quote]
Play SC II :)[/quote]
Haha well played. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.
You are truly inspiring, that’s cool to see young guys who are so ‘mature’ on their diet!
What I like of your road is you have try different things to see what WORKS for you, continue your great works dude!
And thanks for your Super Cissus, I think a lot of guys will try this supp.
What’re you weighing now? You’ve put on a shit ton of size man. Props.
Thanks for the great info KB.
I’m really keen to give max-ot style training a go.
After a couple years of lifting, but having to keep my weight down for boxing has made me literally want to wee in excitement at the thought of bulking up lol
Anyway your looking seriously jacked in your photos and it was great reading your experience!
KingBeef -
With MaxOT training, do you find it beneficial to use a slightly higher rep range for certain body parts?
Just asking out of curiosity. I use a 6-8 rep range on lateral shoulder work, all arm work, abs/calves/traps. With my first 8 weeks of MaxOT I seen really great gains, but for me, certain bodyparts need a few more reps for that MMC.
[quote]howie424 wrote:
KingBeef -
With MaxOT training, do you find it beneficial to use a slightly higher rep range for certain body parts?
Just asking out of curiosity. I use a 6-8 rep range on lateral shoulder work, all arm work, abs/calves/traps. With my first 8 weeks of MaxOT I seen really great gains, but for me, certain bodyparts need a few more reps for that MMC. [/quote]
Yeah, I’ve found this too. For biceps/shoulders/isolation triceps I like 8-10. It might not be true Max-OT training but if it works, screw it and do it, lol.
^^ My thoughts exactly lol
do you still like a diet similar to the one you used near the beginning of the thread for gaining (looked close to 35-40/35-40/25-30 protein/fat/carb), or would you up the carbs, or does it not really matter ??
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Ooookk, on to current training.
I’m back to training Max-OT style and I think I will continue to train this way for the foreseeable future, as it works VERY well for me. Making the same absurd gains I was last time I followed it’s principles and I am spending MUCH less time in the gym. Don’t know why I ever stopped (well actually I do, it’s called program ADD, lol).
For those that aren’t Familiar with this style of training (I know I’ve seen a few threads about it on here I think there’s even one on the front page now) I will reiterate.
A lot of people seem to have concerns about their joints and injuries when training in the Max-OT rep range all the time but if you warm up properly as well as take the week off every 8-10 weeks (most people don’t) it shouldn’t be an issue. I also take super cissus, which is the BEST thing I’ve ever done for my joints, they never bother me now. Here’s my current split:
Monday - Chest/Tris (International chest day ftw)
Incline dumbbell Press - 3x4-6 <-Don’t think I’ll ever not start a chest routine with this exercise even if it’s just 1 set. King of chest exercises IMO.
Flat Barbell Press - 2x4-6
Dips - 2x4-6
Pushdowns - 2x4-6
French Press - 2x4-6 ← Favorite triceps exercise. I really feel that it’s responsible for a good deal of my triceps size and why my long head is so good.
Tuesday - Back/Bis (I don’t know if I’d like these rep ranges for a beginner for back work or someone with poor mind muscle connection to their back, but it works very well for me because my mmc is excellent and I do 2 second negatives on each rep, which slightly reduces the amount of weight I can use but makes the exercises more effective, IMO.)
Barbell Rows - 3x4-6
Neutral grip Pulldowns - 2x4-6
Medium Grip pulldowns - 1x4-6
Seated Rows - 2x4-6
Pinwheels - 2x4-6
Alternating Dumb curls - 2x4-6
Wednesday - Legs (Extreme focus on 2-3 second negatives for all exercises is helping my legs tremendously. Quads especially, since I’ve also ditched the back squat for a while)
Lying Leg Curls - 2x4-6
RDL’s - 2x4-6
Cybex Leg Press - 2x4-8
Leg Press - 2x4-8
Hack Squat - 2x4-8
Thursday - Shoulders
Seated OH Barbell Press (ass slid forward so it’s more like a super high incline press) - 2x4-6
Seated Dumbbell Press - 2x4-6
Cable Laterals - 3x6-8
Dumbbell Laterals - 1x6-8
Rear Delt raises on inlcine bench - 3x-6-8 ← Was doing very high reps (20-40) on this for a while which worked great, just recently came back to the heavy rep range.
Friday - Traps/Calves/Abs/Forearms
Shrugs - 3x4-8
Standing calf raises - 3x4-8 (my calves are growing suprisingly well from being trained once
Seated calf raises - 3x4-8 a week like this.)
Cable Crunches - 2x10-12
Weighted Leg Raises - 3x10-12
Reverse wrist curls - 2x8-10
Wrist curls - 2x8-10
Static Holds - as much holding time as I can get in 8 mins moving up in weight when total holding time increases by 20% (just came up with this and added it in for this week, hopefully it helps)[/quote]
What sets/reps do you do KB for warming up to the 4-6 rep sets?
And when you say laterals, are you doing only side raises? or fronts as well
Thanks man, props on the progress.
Beefy, just wanted to stop in a say I’m back in full on blast mode with Max-OT and I’m loving training all over again. I got lured away from this style of training for a while (longer than I want to admit… Oh to have that time back again) but I’m back for the foreseeable future and cant wait to get back into off season mode again to start packing on the mass.
[quote]Boat-J-Doc wrote:
do you still like a diet similar to the one you used near the beginning of the thread for gaining (looked close to 35-40/35-40/25-30 protein/fat/carb), or would you up the carbs, or does it not really matter ??
[/quote]
Doesn’t really matter. Only thing I really pay attention to when in gaining mode is eating 1.75g-2g protein per lb of bodyweight and enough food to slowly gain bodyweight.
[quote]Natebrochill wrote:
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Ooookk, on to current training.
I’m back to training Max-OT style and I think I will continue to train this way for the foreseeable future, as it works VERY well for me. Making the same absurd gains I was last time I followed it’s principles and I am spending MUCH less time in the gym. Don’t know why I ever stopped (well actually I do, it’s called program ADD, lol).
For those that aren’t Familiar with this style of training (I know I’ve seen a few threads about it on here I think there’s even one on the front page now) I will reiterate.
A lot of people seem to have concerns about their joints and injuries when training in the Max-OT rep range all the time but if you warm up properly as well as take the week off every 8-10 weeks (most people don’t) it shouldn’t be an issue. I also take super cissus, which is the BEST thing I’ve ever done for my joints, they never bother me now. Here’s my current split:
Monday - Chest/Tris (International chest day ftw)
Incline dumbbell Press - 3x4-6 <-Don’t think I’ll ever not start a chest routine with this exercise even if it’s just 1 set. King of chest exercises IMO.
Flat Barbell Press - 2x4-6
Dips - 2x4-6
Pushdowns - 2x4-6
French Press - 2x4-6 ← Favorite triceps exercise. I really feel that it’s responsible for a good deal of my triceps size and why my long head is so good.
Tuesday - Back/Bis (I don’t know if I’d like these rep ranges for a beginner for back work or someone with poor mind muscle connection to their back, but it works very well for me because my mmc is excellent and I do 2 second negatives on each rep, which slightly reduces the amount of weight I can use but makes the exercises more effective, IMO.)
Barbell Rows - 3x4-6
Neutral grip Pulldowns - 2x4-6
Medium Grip pulldowns - 1x4-6
Seated Rows - 2x4-6
Pinwheels - 2x4-6
Alternating Dumb curls - 2x4-6
Wednesday - Legs (Extreme focus on 2-3 second negatives for all exercises is helping my legs tremendously. Quads especially, since I’ve also ditched the back squat for a while)
Lying Leg Curls - 2x4-6
RDL’s - 2x4-6
Cybex Leg Press - 2x4-8
Leg Press - 2x4-8
Hack Squat - 2x4-8
Thursday - Shoulders
Seated OH Barbell Press (ass slid forward so it’s more like a super high incline press) - 2x4-6
Seated Dumbbell Press - 2x4-6
Cable Laterals - 3x6-8
Dumbbell Laterals - 1x6-8
Rear Delt raises on inlcine bench - 3x-6-8 ← Was doing very high reps (20-40) on this for a while which worked great, just recently came back to the heavy rep range.
Friday - Traps/Calves/Abs/Forearms
Shrugs - 3x4-8
Standing calf raises - 3x4-8 (my calves are growing suprisingly well from being trained once
Seated calf raises - 3x4-8 a week like this.)
Cable Crunches - 2x10-12
Weighted Leg Raises - 3x10-12
Reverse wrist curls - 2x8-10
Wrist curls - 2x8-10
Static Holds - as much holding time as I can get in 8 mins moving up in weight when total holding time increases by 20% (just came up with this and added it in for this week, hopefully it helps)[/quote]
What sets/reps do you do KB for warming up to the 4-6 rep sets?
And when you say laterals, are you doing only side raises? or fronts as well
Thanks man, props on the progress.
[/quote]
Check out my routine thread, you’ll find the answer in there.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Beefy, just wanted to stop in a say I’m back in full on blast mode with Max-OT and I’m loving training all over again. I got lured away from this style of training for a while (longer than I want to admit… Oh to have that time back again) but I’m back for the foreseeable future and cant wait to get back into off season mode again to start packing on the mass.[/quote]
Kewl, man. You doing 4-8 reps or 4-6?
I shoot for 4-6 reps, but if I manage to bang out 7-8 I still count the set. Meaning that if I have 2 sets of incline bench scheduled and I get 7 on the first set, I still count that and only do one more set with the same weight, which usually lands me in the 4-6 range.
I figure there is essentially no difference between getting 6 or 7 reps, but there is something to be said for getting 8 instead of 4 I think. Depending on the exercise and the amount of weight you are using, adding 5 pounds can be VERY tough and can decrease the number of reps significantly (by 2 or 3 a set), so I dont consider getting 8 reps on a set the end of the world or a wasted set in any way… I just consider it progress and a sure fire sign that I’m ready to increase my training weight.
Beefy - Do you follow their system of changing your workout scheme every 4 weeks. Seem’s very fast, and I think I’d like to stick with it the entire 8 week cycle to really make sure I’m progressing on the lifts I selected.
I was thinking of picking a Primary exercise for each body part and 2 secondary ones, and then every 4 weeks only switching the secondary. A small example example:
Weeks 1-4
Chest:
Incline Bench Press x 3 sets (Primary)
Flat DB Press x 3 sets (secondary)
Dips x 1 set
Weeks 5-8
Incline Bench Press (Primary)
Decline Bench Press (secondary)
dips x 1 set
Also - for triceps do you tend to stick with their exercise selections (Push Downs, Kick Backs, Lying Extensions) or have you experimented with something like Close Grip Bench Presses, or even Reverse Grip Bench Presses, which seems to me you could get MUCH more overload out of. Any thoughts?
kingbeef,
Do you think doing Max-OT 3 time a weeks instead of five would work, training 3 bodyparts per session instead of 2?
My work schedule doesn’t allow me to get to the gym five time a week
Thanks.
[quote]norref123 wrote:
kingbeef,
Do you think doing Max-OT 3 time a weeks instead of five would work, training 3 bodyparts per session instead of 2?
My work schedule doesn’t allow me to get to the gym five time a week
Thanks.
[/quote]
Obviously not Beef here, but I’ve read EXTENSIVELY on Max-OT. It can be done, but you might not get the kind of results you would by splitting it up in to 5 days. It really is quite taxing to go ALL OUT for that many sets in a single workout. This is from the Original website that Max-OT was invented on, which means it is essentially an “official” routine:
Cable Pull Downs 2 x 4-6
Close Grip Pull Downs 2 x 4-6
Bent Over Rows 2 x 4-6
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 2 x 4-6
Straight Bar Curls 2 x 4-6
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3 x 4-6
Incline Dumbbell Press 2 x 4-6
Weighted Dips 1 x 4-6
Straight Bar Military Press 2 x 4-6
Dumbbell Side Laterals 2 x 6-8
Barbell Shrugs 1 x 4-6
Squats 3 x 4-6
45 Degree Leg Press 2 x 4-6
Stiff Leg Dead Lift 2 x 6
Standing Calf Raise 2 x 6-8
45 Degree Calf Raises 1 x 6-8
Weighted Cable Crunches 2 x 10-12
Incline Crunches 2 x 8-10
So you can see you are not stimulating things quite as much (as little as one set for some muscles), but you will still be busting your ass and lifting heavy. There are certainly worse routines you can do.
KB - first off, congratulations on the progress, and thank you for all the detailed information you’ve provided in your threads. You are truly an inspiration. I tend to be a very analytical individual, especially when it comes to diet, food logs, macronutrient levels, etc. So it’s refreshing to see someone else do the same!
My question is on measuring progress. Apart from the mirror test and improving on your lifts weekly, did you measure progress by checking scale weight weekly? Would you set a weekly goal for yourself, like let’s say # lbs gained each week?
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I shoot for 4-6 reps, but if I manage to bang out 7-8 I still count the set. Meaning that if I have 2 sets of incline bench scheduled and I get 7 on the first set, I still count that and only do one more set with the same weight, which usually lands me in the 4-6 range.
I figure there is essentially no difference between getting 6 or 7 reps, but there is something to be said for getting 8 instead of 4 I think. Depending on the exercise and the amount of weight you are using, adding 5 pounds can be VERY tough and can decrease the number of reps significantly (by 2 or 3 a set), so I dont consider getting 8 reps on a set the end of the world or a wasted set in any way… I just consider it progress and a sure fire sign that I’m ready to increase my training weight.
Beefy - Do you follow their system of changing your workout scheme every 4 weeks. Seem’s very fast, and I think I’d like to stick with it the entire 8 week cycle to really make sure I’m progressing on the lifts I selected.
I was thinking of picking a Primary exercise for each body part and 2 secondary ones, and then every 4 weeks only switching the secondary. A small example example:
Weeks 1-4
Chest:
Incline Bench Press x 3 sets (Primary)
Flat DB Press x 3 sets (secondary)
Dips x 1 set
Weeks 5-8
Incline Bench Press (Primary)
Decline Bench Press (secondary)
dips x 1 set
Also - for triceps do you tend to stick with their exercise selections (Push Downs, Kick Backs, Lying Extensions) or have you experimented with something like Close Grip Bench Presses, or even Reverse Grip Bench Presses, which seems to me you could get MUCH more overload out of. Any thoughts?[/quote]
I switch things up closer to every 10 weeks. Where did you get 4 weeks from? They advocate every 8-10 weeks as well. I keep everything exactly the same for that period of time as well, but I know some people seem to like to do what you mentioned about keeping a main exercise the same and sometimes switching up other ones (Jeff Rodriguez comes to mind). Personally I’d rather just progress on all the exercises during the “training cycle.”
For tri’s I have my own exercise selection consisting of:
Decline elbows flared cgbp
Machine Dips
Rope Pushdowns
French Presses
Lying behind the head extensions
1 Arm overhead extensions
Straight bar pushdowns
I don’t really think too much of the pushdowns, I just like to do them after my heavy press before the lying extensions or french presses to get more blood flow to the area before going heavy on those.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
[quote]norref123 wrote:
kingbeef,
Do you think doing Max-OT 3 time a weeks instead of five would work, training 3 bodyparts per session instead of 2?
My work schedule doesn’t allow me to get to the gym five time a week
Thanks.
[/quote]
Obviously not Beef here, but I’ve read EXTENSIVELY on Max-OT. It can be done, but you might not get the kind of results you would by splitting it up in to 5 days. It really is quite taxing to go ALL OUT for that many sets in a single workout. This is from the Original website that Max-OT was invented on, which means it is essentially an “official” routine:
Cable Pull Downs 2 x 4-6
Close Grip Pull Downs 2 x 4-6
Bent Over Rows 2 x 4-6
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 2 x 4-6
Straight Bar Curls 2 x 4-6
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3 x 4-6
Incline Dumbbell Press 2 x 4-6
Weighted Dips 1 x 4-6
Straight Bar Military Press 2 x 4-6
Dumbbell Side Laterals 2 x 6-8
Barbell Shrugs 1 x 4-6
Squats 3 x 4-6
45 Degree Leg Press 2 x 4-6
Stiff Leg Dead Lift 2 x 6
Standing Calf Raise 2 x 6-8
45 Degree Calf Raises 1 x 6-8
Weighted Cable Crunches 2 x 10-12
Incline Crunches 2 x 8-10
So you can see you are not stimulating things quite as much (as little as one set for some muscles), but you will still be busting your ass and lifting heavy. There are certainly worse routines you can do.[/quote]
This is extremely similar to how I trained when I was JUST starting out getting from 130-170lbs with no fat gain. It’s not bad but it’s certainly not optimal either. Can’t even do the 4 day split on the first page?
[quote]Tonino wrote:
KB - first off, congratulations on the progress, and thank you for all the detailed information you’ve provided in your threads. You are truly an inspiration. I tend to be a very analytical individual, especially when it comes to diet, food logs, macronutrient levels, etc. So it’s refreshing to see someone else do the same!
My question is on measuring progress. Apart from the mirror test and improving on your lifts weekly, did you measure progress by checking scale weight weekly? Would you set a weekly goal for yourself, like let’s say # lbs gained each week?[/quote]
Yes, I use the scale when I’m “bulking.” If I’m gaining weight and not losing much definition I know I don’t really need to change anything. Not gaining weight, eat more carbs (I always eat the same amount of protein ~350-400g). Getting fat? (yes it can happen to me too) decrease carbs.
KB - The “Official” Max-OT guidelines are to train for 8 week cycles, but at the 4 week mark you change (some of) the exercises or the schedule. Of course you will keep in the big money exercises most of the time, but they do some kind of tweak like rotating the schedule, switching up the pairings, or even changing the exercises. That sounded quite often to me, and I’d really rather keep going with the same exercise selection for 8-10 weeks and then take a week off.
From the Max-OT Program off AST:
[quote]"Each month your Max-OT routine will change (This is a Max-OT routine rotation). I’m not talking a major change. Just slight changes in things such as exercise, exercise order, training rotation, etc. What will never change are the basic Max-OT principles.
So over the course of 6 months your Max-OT training routine will change 6 times.
Through many years of refining Max-OT I have found that a subtle change in the routine after 4 training rotations (A training rotation is the completion of one complete workout for each muscle group.) appears to prevent muscle growth stagnation. Although the fundamentals of Max-OT prevent the typical “plateaus” most training programs lead you to, we are looking for maximum growth all the time. This approach provides for continual progress. "[/quote]
As far as the off week, I’m toying with the idea of doing 3-4 Neural Charge workouts throughout the week just to ramp up the recovery and keep fresh. Have you done anything like this, or do you just take the full week off?
Hey KingBeef, just curious as to if you were interested in ever doing a show?? I think most everyone on here will agree you’d most likely do really well.
Extremely nice beef, I love seeing pictures of skinny guys then gaining immense amounts of muscle. I am in the same boat. I used to be very skinny now i am about the same weight as you (weighed in at 215 today). Just wanted to say good job. Not sure if you mentioned this but what kind of training worked best for you? I seen the best gains off DC training and just my normal split (monday-chest tris shoulders, tuesday-back legs, bis, thursday same as monday, friday same as tuesday) that i am doing now.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Hey KingBeef, just curious as to if you were interested in ever doing a show?? I think most everyone on here will agree you’d most likely do really well.[/quote]
Yeah make sure to video it and use EXTRA oil 