good stuff man. I agree for the most part but I also think that many people here are to quick to jump the gun. I think it was the caveman thread were the first response was something like “do all trolls write in capital letters?”
People are making the problem worse by actions like this (I understand they don’t mean to). We call out trolls all the time and expose them. When this happens they should simply have their accounts canceled.
Becaus of this ongoing war with trolls (who aren’t even worth it). genuine noobs are getting flamed to a ridiculous extent. 17/18 year olds that haven’t had the decade or so to build up to hyyuuggee status. I understand if they post a picture of a 125Ibs self but even then. THEY ARE NOOBS. they arrive on the site…see a fellow noob has posted a pic and decide thats the way to start their journey.
Get rid of all these stupid threads…only allow them to post in the beginners section for a certain amount of time and then let them loose on the ranch when they have a bit of knowledge as to how this site works.
my 2 cents
OMC
[quote]Irish Muscle wrote:
The trolls are important to T-Nation imo. Any time a stupid pic comes out or some idiot makes a stupid ass comment he gets shot down buy the regulars.
I think that on its own constantly reminds every one of what this site is about. Otherwise the site would gradually evolve into another version of bodybuilding.com where the people are TOO damn friendly.
If the trolls were to go, then there would be no reason to have an attitude here and it would turn into a perfect website where every one would be too repectfull to each other and overly happy and complementive.
I think it would end up like bodybuilding.com photo gallary. There are some big cuntes on that site, and every one says stuff like “omg, you are so big, wow!”
When theres too much respect and manners, the atmosphere of the site turns gay.
So we ned trolls to keep every one semi pissed off, and full of testosterone.
A forum is all in fun, no one takes any of it seriously. This is like in the 19th century South: a bunch of guys sitting around the pickle barrel shooting the shit. It has NO meaning whatsoever.
C’mon, how hard is it to lift heavy, eat a lot, and sleep? Jesus!!!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Had to laugh at this thread.
C’mon, how hard is it to lift heavy, eat a lot, and sleep? Jesus!!![/quote]
I’m not Jesus, but it isn’t all that easy to lift heavy, eat a lot and sleep. If it was easy, everyone who wanted to would be huge. It’s definitely not easy for me to do all three at the same time for a prolonged period(and I’m damned near perfect). A thing called life gets in the way.
Which is why I am what they call a “hard-gainer”.
I come here to get tips on how to be more efficient at maximizing my time to get all three simultaneously and for occasional motivational help as well. I’ve also learned a tremendous amount about anal sex (a lot of which came from trolls).
Loook, there’s not gold in every pile of shit, but there is an occasional nugget in there that you may not find if you don’t spread it out thinly and inspect it. With time, you develop the ability to pick out the piles with a higher likelihood of gold and ignore the others.
I don’t charge anyone to read my wisdom, nor would I pay to give what I’m willing to give freely (huh?).
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
DTLV wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yet the rules of Rome want the barbarians to enter. Why? I truly have no idea.
I’ve got this crazy hunch that they’re like, trying to sell supplements, or something.
Aren’t you just an expert at sarcasm? Not.
Are the people who actually come in, post once, and then leave actually buying shit? Will Biotest’s bottom line increasing by catering to such people. I highly doubt it.[/quote]
Is it really so hard to understand?
The purpose of the website is to help Biotest move product by building its brand and customer base. If the website were not open to the public, it wouldn’t serve that purpose very well. It is not in Biotest’s interest to put obstacles in the way of potential customers. As long as SOME of the people who walk in spend money, leaving the door open is the smart thing to do.
Of course, on the internet as in life, if you leave the door open, you might not like everyone who walks in. That’s why the forums are (lightly) moderated, to keep out egregious trolling and spam. What’s left is some mild trolling and a lot of what the OP was complaining about: posts that aren’t trolls or spam, but are merely aesthetically unappealing (to him and others like him who’ve mistaken someone else’s business venture for their own private club.) If you were Biotest, wouldn’t you be willing to accept that as a “cost” of doing business?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I doubt anyone is saying that only people who post here buy supplements. What was said is that those who are the “post once about stupid shit with emphasis on not getting too big…despite weighing 135lbs” are probably not the ones falling into that category that actually does spend significant money on products here.
There is a huge difference between not posting much but being very serious about training…and not posting much because going to the gym is a huge accomplishment for you yet you still asked about whether creatine is safe to take because 30 years on the market isn’t quite enough time for you to know about how it works.[/quote]
I have no idea what the actual distribution is, but I suspect the fitness/supplement market is (at least to some extent) one of those “long tail” deals, where there are a few people who make regular, large purchases, but A LOT of people who make small, infrequent purchases. REALLY A LOT, though, so the money adds up, if you can find a way to get them all to buy from you.
The vast majority of people are never going to become serious, intense, regular, committed gym-goers. They’re never going to understand what they WOULD need to do to look the way they want to, because they’re never EVEN going to bother READING enough to get it. These people will, though, be chronically dissatisfied with their appearance, and to the extent they can afford it, they will be happy to throw money at their problem, along with insufficient (of intensity, duration, or both) effort.
These people number in the hundreds of millions. Anyone in the fitness/supplement industry who isn’t trying to get their money is a fool.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
A forum is all in fun, no one takes any of it seriously. This is like in the 19th century South: a bunch of guys sitting around the pickle barrel shooting the shit. [/quote]
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Loook, there’s not gold in every pile of shit, but there is an occasional nugget in there that you may not find if you don’t spread it out thinly and inspect it. With time, you develop the ability to pick out the piles with a higher likelihood of gold and ignore the others.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Do this thought experiment: If you had a question about something, the answer to which had never been published in an article on this site, how many people do you think could answer it?
That “core group” of people on this forum are what makes it different. Years ago, there were way more than a dozen people in that group. The twin pillars of, “Be nice to the douchebags/trolls” and “Dare not question the divine authority our authors!” has driven far too many qualified people away. People who care about the forum (and T-Mag) are the ones who date back to the founding of the company or soon thereafter. They have seen the barbarians at the gates, and they want to drive them away.
Yet the rules of Rome want the barbarians to enter. Why? I truly have no idea.[/quote]
This is an excellent post also. Much more poignant than the OP’s assertion. The spirit of T-Nation is not about censoring or coddling experts and women. Yet those who run T-Nation have gone in that direction.
If I had had access to (and the foresight to listen to) the information here when I started, I would have made substantially better gains than I have. However, I question whether a lot of the kids who are just getting started even want to hear the sage advice of “eat like a man” or “lift heavy”. They probably just want to find the easiest route. Maybe only one or two out of every 20 newbies who come to this site will ever actually stick it out in the long run. But even at such small numbers, it’s worth doling out the advice to all of them so we can keep adding to our ranks.
On the other hand, I stayed in the trenches basically on my own; experimenting with routines without the benefit of advice; and I was still able to make gains. Too bad you couldn’t bar anyone with less than a years experience in the gym from posting. A lot of things can be learned from just reading and lifting.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
oh cry me a river. Unless you’re shredded that’s still nothing to post pics about.[/quote]
I like how you took my words at face value. My goals are to be 185-190 at 5’6, shredded, professional physique. That’s not worthy of posting? Don’t even try to tell me I won’t achieve that either, because I don’t put limitations on myself (whether you do or don’t isn’t my worry).
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Had to laugh at this thread.
A forum is all in fun, no one takes any of it seriously.[/quote]
You’re right-I’ll stop giving a rat’s ass about anything related to my goals. Hell, why not stop caring about specifically my goals so much? It’s just the 19th century South right?
[quote]DTLV wrote:
If you were Biotest, wouldn’t you be willing to accept that as a “cost” of doing business?[/quote]
I would ask myself whether letting the barbarians overtake the forums would be a good business decision. You ASSUME that it would be a good business decision. Why do you make this assumption?
I’ve watched supplement companies come and go over the decades. The ones that last tend to remain true to their niche market, i.e., guys who do not weigh 135 lbs. and post, “hey guys its my first post check out my abs i wanna look like brad pitt from fight club am i there yet?”
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
DTLV wrote:
If you were Biotest, wouldn’t you be willing to accept that as a “cost” of doing business?
I would ask myself whether letting the barbarians overtake the forums would be a good business decision. You ASSUME that it would be a good business decision. Why do you make this assumption?
I’ve watched supplement companies come and go over the decades. The ones that last tend to remain true to their niche market, i.e., guys who do not weigh 135 lbs. and post, “hey guys its my first post check out my abs i wanna look like brad pitt from fight club am i there yet?”[/quote]
What I always find curious is how people with this sort of mentality post on a site called Testosterone ? Also, do they read any of the coaches articles, or even look at the powerful images before posting their pictures? You would think if they did they would realize this is not the site for them.
*I didn’t read this entire thread, just the inital post.
To the OP:
Have you ever considered that there are numerous beginner type athletes/BBers or what-have-yous that don’t post their picture because they have common sense, but, at the same time, don’t make much of a showing because they simply read articles and sponge up information for later use?
My point is that the trolls and the people that lack common sense stick out like a sore thumb; as opposed to the people like myself that are just here to learn until they have something to show for the knowledge they have gained.
Ignore the trolls to the best of your ability and this site is so much more enjoyable.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
<<< I would ask myself whether letting the barbarians overtake the forums would be a good business decision. You ASSUME that it would be a good business decision. Why do you make this assumption? >>>[/quote]
I assume the Biotest honchos assume that as well and have to ask myself why they would assume that.
Restricting posting rights to paid members would do nothing to curtail read only access to anybody and how much more sober, substantive and just plain professional would the conveyed image of the forums and by extension the company be?
They would attract more of the same type of folks who are much more likely to become repeat, long term customers than guys wanting frisbee advice and trying to avoid developing callouses.
[quote]Fulmen wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
oh cry me a river. Unless you’re shredded that’s still nothing to post pics about.
I like how you took my words at face value. My goals are to be 185-190 at 5’6, shredded, professional physique. That’s not worthy of posting? Don’t even try to tell me I won’t achieve that either, because I don’t put limitations on myself (whether you do or don’t isn’t my worry).
Headhunter wrote:
Had to laugh at this thread.
A forum is all in fun, no one takes any of it seriously.
You’re right-I’ll stop giving a rat’s ass about anything related to my goals. Hell, why not stop caring about specifically my goals so much? It’s just the 19th century South right?
Heh, yea right.[/quote]
Reading and studying articles by experts = good. Arguing with strangers with unknown qualifications = fun. Listening to said stranger = hilarious.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
<<<
Reading and studying articles by experts = good. Arguing with strangers with unknown qualifications = fun. Listening to said stranger = hilarious.
[/quote]
Reading and studying articles by “experts” = can be good or bad depending on who’s doing the reading and studying.
Strangers with progress much greater than yours = qualifications that should speak for themselves and arguing with them for fun is arrogant and you do it to your own detriment.
Ignoring said strangers = stupid
Strangers who can quote mountains of articles read and studied = guys who read a lot.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
<<<
Reading and studying articles by experts = good. Arguing with strangers with unknown qualifications = fun. Listening to said stranger = hilarious.
Strangers with progress much greater than yours = qualifications that should speak for themselves and arguing with them for fun is arrogant and you do it to your own detriment.
Ignoring said strangers = stupid
[/quote]
Uh…how do you know that their progress is ‘much greater than yours’? And on the Internet? Okay, I deadlift 850 and bench 725.
[quote]Flow wrote:
*I didn’t read this entire thread, just the inital post.
To the OP:
Have you ever considered that there are numerous beginner type athletes/BBers or what-have-yous that don’t post their picture because they have common sense, but, at the same time, don’t make much of a showing because they simply read articles and sponge up information for later use?
My point is that the trolls and the people that lack common sense stick out like a sore thumb; as opposed to the people like myself that are just here to learn until they have something to show for the knowledge they have gained.
Ignore the trolls to the best of your ability and this site is so much more enjoyable.[/quote]