[quote]Irish Muscle wrote:
Hell theres even room on this site for douche bags like me.
[/quote]
Amazing, huh?
I’m not perfect and don’t purport to represent all that is virtuous, worthy or T-ish in general. In spite of making some very good progress in the past 13 months since hitting the weights again I also recognize how far I have to go and that if it weren’t for what I started with I wouldn’t inspire a lot of guys here.
However, I for one would find it much more enjoyable if I knew the majority of people I was going to run into here were mature enough to take what we do seriously along with being able to joke around in a productive way.
I’ve lost a lot of enthusiasm for helping new guys because it’s almost a complete waste of effort. I don’t how many times I’ve spent a LOT of time with somebody, in the forums, emailing and with PM’s and they disappear never to be heard from again.
If you had to spend 20 measly bucks a year or something to post, most of the half ass, here today gone tomorrow types, wouldn’t clutter up the place with forum spam. They could still read whatever they wanted and buy Biotest products for which maybe they could even have their membership included with the purchase.
Personally, I’m selfish. I don’t have the time to waste with people like the ones I see at work every day. It would be great to have a place where the members, for the most part, are serious about their training and respect T-Nation enough not to turn it into a soap opera.
Stupid questions from sincere noobs I can read all day long. There was a time when I had no idea what the hell I was doing either, but it’s gotten to the point where 49 out of every 50 people who show up here have no substantial aspirations toward anything that could actually be called bodybuilding, strength goals or even MMA conditioning.
[quote]dragonmamma wrote:
Anyone with an intelligent question is likely to get lots of intelligent feedback.[/quote]
Other than the most basic shit (“Eat 5-6 meals a day,” “Eat protein,” “Yes, creatine is safe”), there are only about (at most) a dozen people who are qualified to answer truly difficult questions. Parroting what has been said in an article is not an “intelligent feedback.” Birdbrains is an insult for a reason.
Do this thought experiment: If you had a question about something, the answer to which had never been published in an article on this site, how many people do you think could answer it?
That “core group” of people on this forum are what makes it different. Years ago, there were way more than a dozen people in that group. The twin pillars of, “Be nice to the douchebags/trolls” and “Dare not question the divine authority our authors!” has driven far too many qualified people away. People who care about the forum (and T-Mag) are the ones who date back to the founding of the company or soon thereafter. They have seen the barbarians at the gates, and they want to drive them away.
Yet the rules of Rome want the barbarians to enter. Why? I truly have no idea.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yet the rules of Rome want the barbarians to enter. Why? I truly have no idea.[/quote]
I’ve got this crazy hunch that they’re like, trying to sell supplements, or something.
[quote]DTLV wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yet the rules of Rome want the barbarians to enter. Why? I truly have no idea.
I’ve got this crazy hunch that they’re like, trying to sell supplements, or something.[/quote]
Aren’t you just an expert at sarcasm? Not.
Are the people who actually come in, post once, and then leave actually buying shit? Will Biotest’s bottom line increasing by catering to such people. I highly doubt it.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
DTLV wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yet the rules of Rome want the barbarians to enter. Why? I truly have no idea.
I’ve got this crazy hunch that they’re like, trying to sell supplements, or something.
Aren’t you just an expert at sarcasm? Not.
Are the people who actually come in, post once, and then leave actually buying shit? Will Biotest’s bottom line increasing by catering to such people. I highly doubt it.[/quote]
Just because someone only posts once, or a few times, doesn’t mean they don’t come to this site often, or that they don’t buy Biotest supplements.
[quote]SWR wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
DTLV wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yet the rules of Rome want the barbarians to enter. Why? I truly have no idea.
I’ve got this crazy hunch that they’re like, trying to sell supplements, or something.
Aren’t you just an expert at sarcasm? Not.
Are the people who actually come in, post once, and then leave actually buying shit? Will Biotest’s bottom line increasing by catering to such people. I highly doubt it.
Just because someone only posts once, or a few times, doesn’t mean they don’t come to this site often, or that they don’t buy Biotest supplements.[/quote]
I doubt anyone is saying that only people who post here buy supplements. What was said is that those who are the “post once about stupid shit with emphasis on not getting too big…despite weighing 135lbs” are probably not the ones falling into that category that actually does spend significant money on products here.
There is a huge difference between not posting much but being very serious about training…and not posting much because going to the gym is a huge accomplishment for you yet you still asked about whether creatine is safe to take because 30 years on the market isn’t quite enough time for you to know about how it works.
[quote]SWR wrote:
<<< Just because someone only posts once, or a few times, doesn’t mean they don’t come to this site often, or that they don’t buy Biotest supplements.[/quote]
Which is another reason why having a pay to post policy wouldn’t hurt business one bit and the added incentive of having your normally, say $20 annual membership included with, say a $100 purchase may even increase sales.
You may have guys (and gals of course) pondering a membership or supplement purchase who wind up seeing the propriety in both. At the same time this would prevent the unwashed masses from dropping in to make some noise. Every time one of these kinds of discussions gets going I find myself coming back to this.
T-Nation is by far a huge resource for body development (I owe them and the posters) and as such you are going to have newbies that are asking for help in certain areas, but you will have trolls as well looking for a thrill at everybody’s expense(wasted time, regulars turning on each other, etc.). That being said I believe that most of us can eventually tell the difference so I propose a simple solution. When a legit question is asked by a newbie it gets answered as usual so that we can strengthen the forum.
When a troll posts(once noted), it should not get a response whatsoever so that the thread or post can waste away also strengthening the forum.(not fun when nobody wants to play). Give it a try and see what happens. I respect this site and would imagine that anyone that spends any amount of time whether it be posting or reading should help this along.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I doubt anyone is saying that only people who post here buy supplements. What was said is that those who are the “post once about stupid shit with emphasis on not getting too big…despite weighing 135lbs” are probably not the ones falling into that category that actually does spend significant money on products here.[/quote]
Thank you. It don’t get why guys like SWR (who have been around for a while) pretend like they have never read any of my posts and thus don’t see where I’m coming from. The context I was posting it should have been crystal clear to him.
(To answer SWR’s future post in advance: Yeah, you’re right. I should just treat everything I post on an internet forum like I do scholarly writing or other work. How dare I assume people actually get where I’m coming from because of prior posts I’ve made.)
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
SWR wrote:
<<< Just because someone only posts once, or a few times, doesn’t mean they don’t come to this site often, or that they don’t buy Biotest supplements.
Which is another reason why having a pay to post policy wouldn’t hurt business one bit and the added incentive of having your normally, say $20 annual membership included with, say a $100 purchase may even increase sales.
You may have guys (and gals of course) pondering a membership or supplement purchase who wind up seeing the propriety in both. At the same time this would prevent the unwashed masses from dropping in to make some noise. Every time one of these kinds of discussions gets going I find myself coming back to this.[/quote]
I agree with paying to post. Maybe leave the off-topic forum free, and don’t allow “on topic” (bodybuilding, nutrition…) posts to be posted there.
And CaliforniaLaw, I really thought you were assuming most of those with few posts aren’t lurking, or buying from here.
Plus, I’d be willing to bet that a good portion of the supplements bought here (or elsewhere) are from people who either don’t fully understand what they’re for, or aren’t truly ready to be using them in the first place.
Many advertisements seem like all the information you need, especially if it’s telling you what you want to hear.
I guess guys who are in the know are more likely to be repeat customers for longer periods of time though, but I’m no marketing major, so what do I know.
[quote]Underestimated wrote:
I believe that most of us can eventually tell the difference so I propose a simple solution. When a legit question is asked by a newbie it gets answered as usual so that we can strengthen the forum.
When a troll posts(once noted), it should not get a response whatsoever so that the thread or post can waste away also strengthening the forum.[/quote]
What you suggested is and has been happening since forever. Only now the equation of volume vs quality of people is shifting towards the volume part. Unfortunately the site has almost zero means to accept this new traffic without subsequent changes to it’s character.
Tim and TC’s current policy is not final, but it does cater to what the newbies want instead of what they need.
I already suggested several times that there needs to be a gateway of information EVERYONE who joins the forums must read through to attain basic knowledge. Another way for this particular image posting problem would be to make a banner at the top of the picture forum containing images of similar 160lb newbies with the text :“YOU ARE TOO SKINNY TO POST IN THIS FORUM. READ THIS(link to above mentioned ‘gateway’)”.
So there are a shitload of things that can be done but the current approach is basically no approach at all.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Good post. teh OP could just as easily be mocked for having a goal of posting pics once he reaches 185# Somehow, everyone has seen fit to be civil about him, but he wants everyone to bash the newbs. get over it.[/quote]
If you had common sense, you would realize 185 lbs at 5’6 is a large size. I don’t want anyone to bash newbs; I want people to bash ignorance.
Is that so hard to understand?
Paying to post isn’t the answer.
Just because someone only posts once, or a few times, doesn’t mean they don’t come to this site often, or that they don’t buy Biotest supplements.[/quote]
I am on this sight almost every day and have been even before I actually created a member name. I rarely post, I am sure there are tons of people like that here.
Just like everything else, “it’s what you make of it” I read the articles, learn what I can and apply it to my work out’s/get new idea’s. If you dont like people posting what you may feel is “dumb” Dont read it. I have learned so much from this sight since I have been on, and I get a laugh out of it when I need to.
Dont tell me that when someone posts’ a certin picture or thread that you dont get excided about how bad they are going to get bashed. It’s what you make of it. Nothing to prove, just learn/enjoy
[quote]PGA wrote:
Paying to post isn’t the answer.[/quote]
Maybe if they were more adamant about canceling memberships INCLUDING banning IP addresses of obvious trolls?
That would work for me too.
Maybe after at least one warning?
[quote]Fulmen wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Good post. teh OP could just as easily be mocked for having a goal of posting pics once he reaches 185# Somehow, everyone has seen fit to be civil about him, but he wants everyone to bash the newbs. get over it.
If you had common sense, you would realize 185 lbs at 5’6 is a large size. I don’t want anyone to bash newbs; I want people to bash ignorance.
Is that so hard to understand?
[/quote]
oh cry me a river. Unless you’re shredded (in which case you could weigh far less than 185 and still be impressive - see the thread from “gottatrain” leading up to his contest) that’s still nothing to post pics about. The point is that if you’re going to cast stones you’d better not live in a glass house.
You can always ignore the posts. I’ve gotten rid of the “Rate My Physique” forum from my options because of all the trolling that was going on there. Do I have a problem with that particular forum? Nope. It’s just one I choose not to read.
While I think T-Nation has become watered down to an extent in terms of quality posts, I see that as a good thing. More hits, more views, more people equal (hopefully) more money for Biotest, which will enable them to keep this site FREE, which means all the great articles on this site will still not cost you a dime. That’s the main reason I come to this site, is the information posted in the articles.
Yes, I like to look around in the forums and will post questions or reply to certain threads. But, these forums aren’t where I’m going to get my main source of information when it comes to training.
[quote]SWR wrote:
PGA wrote:
Paying to post isn’t the answer.
Maybe if they were more adamant about canceling memberships INCLUDING banning IP addresses of obvious trolls?
That would work for me too.
Maybe after at least one warning?[/quote]
Track them down and feed them feet first through a wood chipper.