[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
c-dog wrote:
TrainerinDC,
While I appreciate your stance on the subject and willingness to help out someone new, I must say that I disagree with some of your statements.
I believe it does matter whether or not a lifter is “enhanced”. No, it does NOT make him any more, or less, of a man or lifter, but it definitely affects the way he can/does train and eat.
As a lifetime natural lifter and bodybuilder, I’ve discovered that I have a wealth of knowledge for someone who chooses the same path. On the other hand, I’ve also discovered that I struggle to be of assistance to someone who chooses to utilize enhancement.
Sure, there are universal things to be learned in both arenas, but I believe the training and nutrition differences are pretty dog-gone substantial.
Just my two cents . . for what it’s worth!
C-dog
What are these differences then? Does the bodies processes of making muscle change when juice is added? No. Do you still need protein, carbs, amino’s and sleep when you juice? Yes. Does adding test make you a super human instead of a normal human? Hell no. There is no difference in nutrition, rest or training on a using lifter.
Overload is still required. So is caloric surplus. So are sound nutrition, rest, periodization and fundamentals of lifting.
How is it you are helpful to a natural lifter and not a juiced lifter when the concept, action, and end result are the same? Move iron, eat, sleep, grow. There is nothing more simple in the world. Juiced or natural. [/quote]
Wow! Want to experience some of the powerful effects of our favorite little hormone (be it naturally produced or exogenous), then all you have to do is start talking about steroids and watch the debate escalate and the heat rise! Fantastic and interesting thread. Now, to address TrainerinDC’s post/questions . . .
To a very large degree I agree with your statements. As I stated earlier -there are universal things to be learned in both arenas - when boiled down to the basics, muscle building/gaining is not a tremendously complex ordeal. Lift big, eat big, rest. Yeah, it can be summed up that simply. But, when someone is looking to truly excel and either maximize their genetic potential or an anabolic cycle then I believe it becomes quite a bit more complex.
If this is not the case, then T-Nation should never have another article from Thib, Waterbury, Berardi, Lowery, Poliquin, or any of those guys. If it’s really all that simple all the time then all of these so-called “experts” must be pulling the wool over eyes while quoting fancy science and developing fancy, but useless, training and nutrition programs.
I could be wrong, but I believe that any expert (in a performance or physique field) would tell you that training and nutrition prescription varies greatly not only depending on whether someone’s juicing, but also on an individual’s body-type, glucose tolerance, natural hormonal profile, etc.
How can we say that training and eating while “enhanced” and training and eating while “natural” is (or should) be all the same? That’s like telling a classic endomorph to eat and workout just like the little ectomorph in order to look similar?! It doesn’t work that way, and a number of the same factors that are responsible for creating this tremendously different environment in different body-types can be somewhat induced with the use of various drugs (ie. anabolic steroids).
Another prime example of how drug use alters advice/prescription can be seen with insulin. It’s quite obvious that someone utilizing an exogenous source of insulin can consume and efficiently utilize a drastically larger number of carbs than someone depending solely on their body’s own production of that precious, but oh so powerful, hormone.
Once again, I’m not at all attempting to make a judgmental call on the issue of steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs. I choose not to use them, but that is just MY choice. If someone else decides to go that route, then that is THEIR choice. No big deal to me.
