James has, apparently, been heckling Dana White for a chance to get in the cage and give the UFC heavy weights ‘what for’. What are your thoughts? Irish… I know you have to know this James Toney guy, and I know you’ve got to have an opinion! LET’S HEAR IT!
James Toney was a great fighter once, but he’s 41 now. Like so many other aging heavyweights, he seems to have this idea that he’ll be suited for MMA now for some reason.
Even though boxers are infinitely better with their hands, they don’t have the necessary skillset to compete in MMA… it’s like someone thinking that because they run a 4.2 40, they’ll be great in football because you have to run during the game… it’s a logical failure.
So unless someone commits to standing and exchanging with him, he’s probably toast?
who cares I’ll watch it.
[quote]Beershoes wrote:
So unless someone commits to standing and exchanging with him, he’s probably toast?[/quote]
Possibly. Although i’m willing to bet theres a couple fighters who’d give him problems in the stand up, though thats open for debate.
I’d watch it regardless.
I hope this doesn’t spark a boxing vs mma argument. I love both sports and there really shouldn’t be any comparison. Its like comparing wrestling and judo, or maths and english… why bother.
Eh, why would I want to pay to watch some old timer get sat on for 3 rounds? Why not get a legitimate prospect in there? Why not, instead, try to get a guy like Hatton (who at least has some kick boxing experience) in the cage? Granted Hatton is a bruiser, and not a technical boxer, but still a better test of boxer vs mma fighter than a washed up old heavyweight.
[quote]Altair wrote:
[quote]Beershoes wrote:
So unless someone commits to standing and exchanging with him, he’s probably toast?[/quote]
Possibly. Although i’m willing to bet theres a couple fighters who’d give him problems in the stand up, though thats open for debate.
I’d watch it regardless.
I hope this doesn’t spark a boxing vs mma argument. I love both sports and there really shouldn’t be any comparison. Its like comparing wrestling and judo, or maths and english… why bother.[/quote]
Agreed, despite my previous comment. I think if you put a boxer in a cage, he’ll get taken out. Put an mma fighter in a boxing match, and he’ll get beat down.
I think he needs to try a different sport, competitive eating or something.
[quote]Beershoes wrote:
[quote]Altair wrote:
[quote]Beershoes wrote:
So unless someone commits to standing and exchanging with him, he’s probably toast?[/quote]
Possibly. Although i’m willing to bet theres a couple fighters who’d give him problems in the stand up, though thats open for debate.
I’d watch it regardless.
I hope this doesn’t spark a boxing vs mma argument. I love both sports and there really shouldn’t be any comparison. Its like comparing wrestling and judo, or maths and english… why bother.[/quote]
Agreed, despite my previous comment. I think if you put a boxer in a cage, he’ll get taken out. Put an mma fighter in a boxing match, and he’ll get beat down.[/quote]
He’s fighting heavyweight, he can fight Pat Barry, or a Heavyweight striker and make an entertaining fight so I’m for it.
Welcome back, Forum, and happy new 2010 (feels cool typing that number. Almost as if Fusion technology and flying cars are here already. Windowcheck -no they aren’t…
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Even though boxers are infinitely better with their hands, they don’t have the necessary skillset to compete in MMA… it’s like someone thinking that because they run a 4.2 40, they’ll be great in football because you have to run during the game… it’s a logical failure.
[/quote]
No.
Boxing doesn’t have “better” hands then MMA per se.
A great example is Arlovski vs Rogers.
Rogers could never defeat a great heavyweight boxer in the ring, but he can defeat a great heavyweight boxer in a cage any time.
Using his hands only.
The difference between boxing and MMA is not that Boxing is a refined and specialized method of using your hands, but an altogether different sport.
Lololol, I wouldn’t exactly call Arlovski a great boxer. He’s light on his feet and he has a nice straight, but his technical boxing skills aren’t anything great.
There are plenty of better example of good boxing in MMA than Arvloski.
I know he’s old, and last I saw he was severely out of shape, but if Toney lands that right hand or that left hook with those little 4oz gloves he might make someones head explode.
It’s lights out baby.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
No.
Boxing doesn’t have “better” hands then MMA per se.
[/quote]
Uh, yea, they do.
Wait- so who was the “great heavyweight boxer” in that matchup? What the fuck are you talking about?
Any great MMA fighter that is put in a fight where they can only use their hands is going to lose to a great boxer. I don’t give a fuck if it’s in the badass “Octagon” or on a tight rope between two buildings - you’re playing the boxer’s game by using only your hands, and he’s better at it.
Freddie Roach wanted Arlovski to go pro in boxing and said he would do well.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Welcome back, Forum, and happy new 2010 (feels cool typing that number. Almost as if Fusion technology and flying cars are here already. Windowcheck -no they aren’t…
A great example is Arlovski vs Rogers.
Rogers could never defeat a great heavyweight boxer in the ring, but he can defeat a great heavyweight boxer in a cage any time.
Using his hands only.
[/quote]
Haha did you see Arlovski on that day? He looked worse than the second sylvia fight.
[quote]drewh wrote:
Freddie Roach wanted Arlovski to go pro in boxing and said he would do well. [/quote]
That’s far from being a “great heavyweight boxer.”
[quote]Beershoes wrote:
[quote]Altair wrote:
[quote]Beershoes wrote:
So unless someone commits to standing and exchanging with him, he’s probably toast?[/quote]
Possibly. Although i’m willing to bet theres a couple fighters who’d give him problems in the stand up, though thats open for debate.
I’d watch it regardless.
I hope this doesn’t spark a boxing vs mma argument. I love both sports and there really shouldn’t be any comparison. Its like comparing wrestling and judo, or maths and english… why bother.[/quote]
Agreed, despite my previous comment. I think if you put a boxer in a cage, he’ll get taken out. Put an mma fighter in a boxing match, and he’ll get beat down.[/quote]
I’m going to disagree with you, seriously now.
Depending on how good the MMA fighter is in boxing(obviously), he does stand a chance of winning in the boxing ring, under boxing rules.
We have national boxing champions in my MMA team, and they did not have a previous background in boxing.
Of course, you would have to be good with your hands and put a lot of time into training your striking, I suppose.
Until he actually has a boxing match (and I think he is actually scheduled for his pro debut), Arlovski is just an MMA guy who trains with a good boxing coach… kinda like a lot of other MMA guys do… he just has a higher profile coach than most. As far as his actual boxing skill goes, I will wait until he actually fights a half decent pro boxer before I can judge, and I don’t expect that to happen any time soon as he will probably get fed a bunch of cans.
As far as Toney being successful in MMA goes… NO CHANCE!
Toney was/still kinda is a pretty legit boxer. He will always have the proverbial “puncher’s chance.” I’d love to see him get into MMA. I think everybody knows that any of the real legit heavyweights wold wipe the floor with him, but he would probably still be a good test for some of the lower to mid-tier guys. If he beats them, it makes for an interesting match up against a more legit guy and it would be also be a good way for a lower-level prospect to make a better name for themselves.
People I’d like to see him fight:
Gilbert Yvel: The dude’s crazy and he would definitely stand and bang with Toney. He’s got the power to knock Toney out but also could get KTFO himself. If he beats Toney, it establishes him a little better, if not, no big deal and then you could credibly match Toney up with a 2nd-tier guy. And I think it would be an entertaining fight.
Stefan Struve: This would be a good challenge for Struve and I think an interesting contrast of styles. If he wins (which would almost certainly be via submission) it would get MMA fans excited and if he loses, it makes Toney a somewhat legitimate threat. This would a hard fight
Randy Couture: I generally hate watching Couture fight, but I would be interested in this. I’m not sure if Toney’s a big enough name any more, but if you could hype it up as a “Champion Boxer vs. MMA Legend” sort of fight I think it could be a cool draw as a co-headliner. I can’t possibly see Toney winning this as I think Couture takes him down and batters the hell out of him for a couple rounds until ground-and-pounding him into submission.
Roy Nelson: Kind of a poor man’s version of the Couture fight. Nelson has popularity right now coming off of the ultimate fighter and if he gets Toney on the mat, the fight would be over. The only thing is that Nelson did get rocked by Kimbo before taking him down and Toney’s hands are better. There’s a decent chance that Nelson would lose this fight and that’s a serious blow to a fighter that has some popularity right now.
Speaking of which…
Kimbo Slice: Come on, admit it, you would watch. I think it would be an interesting fight since there’s no way that Kimbo can stand and box with Toney. It would be a good chance to prove he’s a “legitimate mixed martial artist”… or at least for the UFC to be able to plausibly say that to build up the hype for whoever he fights next.
James Toney is unfortunately too chunky these days. I’m not sure he’d have the conditioning or the moves.