Inno-Sport Thread

Training Powerlifting
81

[quote]squattin600 wrote:
rbm098 wrote:
Dan I do am not for certain but I have read that Schroeder tries to train his athletes in a 3% overtrained state, possibly he feels that the longer this can be maintained the greater the supercompensatory effect when the volume or load is reduced…I also think that Schroeder uses a less exercises as the athletes progress through the system and if you have seen his video, the exercises there are what the elite athletes of his training program perform. If you have read Jay’s old USA powerlifting article, you will see that he depended heavily on timing of certain supplements along with high volume of training, I think it was like 8 bench workouts a week??? or something like that.

On the topic of the “stiffness” post, I think that there are many ways to improve this but one way might be to get into a similar positon and hold yourself there in an ismoetric position. I think Jay does an isometric holds in an extreme positon for the bench and for the one legged squat…I think what this does is it teaches the body how to hold and control force in that or near that angle of movement.
For example: if you get three chairs, place them so you can do a push up, one for each hand and one for both feet, then you sink down to as far as you can go, hold that position for as long as you can, add weight to your back and hold, whatever…I think that this helps to create a strong muscular tension in that postion so when you bench, you will have created almost like a bench shirt out of your own muslce/tendon/nervous sysetem, connection. I think Mr. Nuttal wrote something about this on his site I think.
Sorry for the confusing post, I am still trying to figure all this stuff out, what they do, why, and how…I also think that the drop off method used by inno-sport is much better than just doing 3x10, becasue you are never performing at the same level each day and by using a drop off you at least can ensure you are working to you potential on that given day.

You are right about stiffness and iso’s. Dan mentioned somewhere a study showing long duration iso’s having great improvements on stiffness.

And the Jay S overtrained state, I thik it was 6 or 7%.

And having read the plusa articles, a while ago, I dont remember them benching 8x/week. I think the program was like 2-3x/week. But I could be wrong, I have been wrong many times before.
[/quote]

Squattin600, I am probably wrong, I do not have the PLUSA articles in front of me but I thought for whatever reasons that the article had like 3-4 bench workouts(percentages and reps to hit) but stated that once you get through the 3rd or fourth you bench workout, move back to the 1st prescibed workout and repeat the cycle, and that the cycle could be repeated two time ins week depending on rest, and recovery methodics…I know that I am off on exactly what he wrote so until I can dig those up I am probably just a moron with a bad memeory.

As for the overtrained state, I think we were both correct someone wrote this in an article…very interesting stuff!!!

“We try to overtrain to a 3 to 7 percent deficit on purpose,” Schroeder said. “The longer we can maintain that level, the greater the supercompensatory effect is later on. If we go deeper in the overtraining than that, it sets us way back, but if we go at 3 to 7 percent, we maintain great results.”

82

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice so far everyone.

I’ve decided that as soon as track season is over I’m going to build up some more strength and hopefully increase my force and power absorbtion too. How does this look for a cycle?

4:1 Frequency/Fatigue Ratio
6% and 12% Dropoffs

Session 1
1/2 Squat ADA N x 3
PIM Squats N x 5-9 sec
PIM 1 Leg Hyper N x 9-25 sec
Natural GHR 2-3 x failure
Toe Crampers 3 x 25-40 sec

Session 2
1/2 Squat RA N x 3 @ 60% Drop Height
REA Squats N x 4 @ 51% AW
REA Squats N x 4 @ 63% AW

I really want to increase my hip extension power and reactive ability, but I know I need to build up the basics first.

After evaluating myself, I’ve found myself to have rather poor reactive ability, comparatively speaking. I’m pretty sure this happened this can be traced to too much time in the gym, not enough on a track. I can squat 335 @ a weight of 200 and have a vertical of 30-31", but I can’t get nearly as high off of a rebound. Is the plan above what anyone would suggest? Jumanji, Climbon?

Thanks,
RJ[/quote]

I would probably separate your two objectives. I would focus on strength first. Then do a dedicated power block. I think you will benefit from the strength work initially because I am assumming it will give your body a break from Mag type work that you are performing in your events. Therefore, I would do one session of absolute strength with a companion session of strength endurance. I would perform the ankle and toe crampers at the end of the workout as part of your cool-down for 1-2 sets.

If you perform the GHR, use AREG for it as well (you can also use AREG for the ankle and to crampers). You can use Mag and Rate An-2 for your fatigue session. If you are still making good gains at the end of the block, I would continue with strength work until progress slows. At this point your body should be ready for power work.

I would do something like the following:
Session A
PIM squats (on toes to some extent) Nx5-9s
PIM GHR (really push with toes) Nx5-9s

Session B
ISO SS Right LE Nx25s
ISO Reverse Hyper Nx25s
ISO SS Left LE Nx25s

You could add in some abdominal work on these days. I tend to perform better having some rest time between legs on unilateral type exercises. That is why I listed it that way. Of course there are plenty of other options.

Some advice;
Don’t try to do/accomplish everything at one time or in one session. You can do some easy drills to increase reactivity during your warm up. Just remember that you are using it for a warm up and to learn proper motor firing. Do not make it a source of fatigue before your workout begins.

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well there ya go. nice work rbm

84

I doubt anyone will do that for you, because confusion is the whole point…it’s what these guys use to keep themselves in a position of authority. After all, if you understood it, you wouldn’t need them anymore (or so the thinking goes).

Look, I’ve been studying strength training for over 20 years…I’ve “sat at the feet” of people like Fred Hatfield, Vladimir Zatsiorsky, Tudor Bompa, Artie Dreschler, Mike Yessis, and other comtemporaries such as Charles Poliquin, Paul Chek, Mark Verstagen, Dave Tate, Louie Simmons, Dan John, Chad Waterbury, you name it. And I don’t even understand what the InnoSport people are talking about.

So my advice to you…when information is valid and useful, it has the intuitive taste of authenticity. If InnoSport’s materials/writings/teachings strike you as authentic, I guess you’ll have to struggle through their writings, their redefinitions of traditional concepts, their acronyms, etc., etc.

If you want a graphic comparison of what I’m talking about, read Science and Practice Of Strength Training by Zatsiorsky, and then read The Best Sports Training Book Ever by InnoSport. Then decide for yourself which book has the ring of authenticity, and which one is an overly-contrived, artificially complicated hodgepodge of brain-numbing acronyms and words you won’t find in any dictionary.

I wonder why the InnoSport guys have never written anything for this website (aside from the fact that one of them is fictional!)

[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
Does anyone think they can give the full names of all the abbreviations that they use?? Im really confused when they describe the exercises with those three letters before every exercise. Thanks[/quote]

85

[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
Does anyone think they can give the full names of all the abbreviations that they use?? Im really confused when they describe the exercises with those three letters before every exercise. Thanks[/quote]

PIM= a regular movement like squatting up and down (traditional movement)
MIO=Mimometric= Just lifting concentrically (ie: rack lockouts)
ISO=isometric work (holding in a fixed positon)
IPM= Isometric hold followed by lifting the bar or lifting the bar and holding it another position

OI= you hold isometrically then contract hard and relax quicklysorry this is tough to describe For a lying tricep extension you would lower the bar to you forehead hold it there isometrically and the tense real hard to move the bar up a little and then relax and repeat
FDA= You relax, let the weight drop and at a certain point, tense up and lift it, this would be like a rebound bench press but you do not bench it up you just catch the bar at the chest…or like sticking a landing after a jump.

REA= just like FDA but you lift the weight back up explosively rather than catch in the the bottom position (so rebound bench press)
ADA= these are when you just drop off of a box and stick a landing in the desired position
AMT= these are done by adding bands or extra weight on the eccentric part of the lift, so examples would be bench with weight releasers, or droping from a box with bands pulling you to the ground, then when you hit the ground the bands are released and you jump up with just your bodyweight.

OSP= like speed work, DE bench, or benching real fast.
OSM=not sure baout this but I think it might be like in inertia machine…hard to explain???
RFI=hopping back fourh over cones is an example

not sure those are all dead on accurate description but it certainly is a hastly to cut through all of that…

86

[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
Does anyone think they can give the full names of all the abbreviations that they use?? Im really confused when they describe the exercises with those three letters before every exercise. Thanks[/quote]

taken from kelly baggetts inno-sport basics article

"Training Exercise Explanations and Abbreviations

Isometric- No movement takes place

Pliometric- Traditionally known as the negative phase of a movement

Miometric- Traditionally known as the positive phase of a movement.

Plio-Iso-Miometric Method (PIM)- Traditional training. Movement starts with a pliometric (lowering) followed by an isometric as the movement shifts from pliometric and then the isometric is followed by miometric, or the contraction phase. So, in simplistic terms, lower, stop, press. Even though the isometric, or stopping point is neglible in most traditional PIM movements, movement must still stop in one direction before it can start in the opposing direction.

Miometric Method (MIO)- Consists of positive only repetitions. You execute just the shortening phase of the lift. Weight must be paused in one way or another before each rep. Suspended in chains, power rack, floor, bench, or any other immoveable object that allows you to take a rested pause between reps. Take a 2-4 second pause between repetitions to focus on starting strength.

Isometric Method (ISO)- Consists of either pushing a weight into an immoveable object (partner pressing down on the weight or pressing against pins) or holding a weight in a position with no movement. Isometrics involve the least Reactive contribution of any training methods and are generally a neuro-duration method.

Isometric Parametric (IPM)- Starting off with an isometric contraction for a specified amount of time followed by either a miometric contraction or another isometric contraction at a more advantageous joint range.

Oscillatory-Isometric method (OI)- Combines an Isometric contraction with periodic pliometric contractions in a 1/4 to 1/3 range of motion. Ex: hold a weight in an isometric contraction at or near the sticking point or least advantageous leverage position (CJC). Gain maximal tension, then quickly release ALL tension and let the weight freely fall. As quickly as tension is lost you will just as rapidly apply tension again and if the whole series is performed correctly with full relaxation and re-initiation of tension the weight will “bounce” back up with hardly any effort. The focus is to let the reflexive elements lift the weight back up and the quicker one can totally relax and switch from max tension to zero tension the better this process will be.

Force Drop Absorption Method(FDA)- Performed with conventional strength training exercises by achieving complete relaxation and letting the weight free fall. Then as the weight falls a predetermined distance you will switch, as rapidly as possible, from relaxation to peak tension to instantly stabilize and absorb the force. The key is to gain separation. In upper body movements this is the distance between hands and the bar. However, lower body movements like squats require the bar to be held tight against the back with the separation gained between the feet and floor.

Reactive Method (REA)- Like the force drop absorption method but a reactive contraction is added to the “catch” portion. So you will gain separation, catch the falling load by initiating full tension, and then without any hesitation react to that force with a powerful and quick contraction in the other direction. The neuro-magnitude PIM bench press test is an example of this.

Amplitude Drop Absorption Method (ADA)- Drop jumps- Step off a high box and land on the ground and absorb the impact in an athletic stance, squat, or split squat position. Terminate height when the soft and silent landing is no longer achievable. Choose height rather than load to maximize the pliometric contribution.

Reactive Acceleration Method (RA)- Extending preceding ADA work with a reactive contraction (pliometric). Depth jumps are an example.

Auxometronics method (AMT)- A method using bands or bungee cords to add to the Amplitude drop absorption or Force drop absorption. Upon contact with the ground or catching of weight the band tension is immediately released (by the coaches feet) allowing one to continue with the Pliometric contraction. First find the depth jump height that allows the best jumping height. Next, one would choose band tension that causes a 7-8% decrease in depth jump height with the bands as compared to best depth jump without the bands. Use a 3:1 or 5:2 ratio of AMT reps to normal reps.

Overspeed Pliometric Method (OSP)- A continuation of PIM work but consistent for movements requiring greater neuro-rate contribution (greater speed.) In this method you use an elastic band or a spring apparatus to increase pliometric acceleration and velocity.

Overspeed Miometric Method (OSM)- A pulley system or an elastic apparatus will be used to quickly accelerate the athlete to peak velocity and then sustain this peak velocity for the necessary terminal. As long as the OSM assistance is not too great the neuro-dynamic functions will remain stable enough to allow an advancement of frequency functions.

Reflexive firing isometrics (RFI)- Examples of reflexive firing isometrics are using light weight with short 1/4 range drop and catch movements over 5-10 seconds. Also exercise like hopping back and forth over cones keeping the upper body stationary. Getting in a pushup or squat position on a trampoline and moving the hands and feet as fast as possible or hopping keeping the upper body stationary are other examples. They can also be done manually as a partner applies quick and random pressure to the body during movement. "

Now it;s all been explained.

87

Damn CS…what’s your beef? As a professional, I would think you might take another angle.

IMO, the info is solid. Easy read? Maybe, maybe not. Should it be? Possibly. It depends on if you are serious about your craft (this is even stated in the book). So you don’t like the book; we get it. Got an issue with Brad? Take him up on his challenge. Or act like a professional and be constructive. My two cents.

88

Climbon, I thought you could mix DUR and MAG work in the same cycle.

Also, what would you recommend for a reactive warm up? I don’t want to risk messing up my reactive function any more than necessary, so a brief example would be wonderful.

Thanks, and I appreciate everyone’s patience. I have the book and I’m learning that applications, but experience is appearing to be valuable.

RJ

89

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
Climbon, I thought you could mix DUR and MAG work in the same cycle.

Also, what would you recommend for a reactive warm up? I don’t want to risk messing up my reactive function any more than necessary, so a brief example would be wonderful.

Thanks, and I appreciate everyone’s patience. I have the book and I’m learning that applications, but experience is appearing to be valuable.

RJ

[/quote]

you can mix MAG and DUR.

If stiffness is a problem an ISO/ADA block should improve stiffness tremendously

90

So, Staley, when are you and Nuttall going to start the “Challenge”. Let’s see if you can back up your talk. Oh, and if you don’t understand what they are talking about, ask Thibaudeau, he seemed to understand most of it.

91

Charles~

Your quote:
“Look, I’ve been studying strength training for over 20 years…I’ve “sat at the feet” of people like Fred Hatfield, Vladimir Zatsiorsky, Tudor Bompa, Artie Dreschler, Mike Yessis, and other comtemporaries such as Charles Poliquin, Paul Chek, Mark Verstagen, Dave Tate, Louie Simmons, Dan John, Chad Waterbury, you name it. And I don’t even understand what the InnoSport people are talking about.”

Does this mean that A) you have actually tried the Inno methods and know the methods have no validity, or B) are merely guessing about validity of methods because these men aren’t big names, and you frankly, by your own words, cannot figure the system out?

A) would give me some great feedback, very outside everything else I have heard about Inno, and B) would mean that you are deriding something in ignorance.

Just so I understand better, A or B?

I keep waiting for someone to say that they have actually tried the Inno methods, and honestly haven’t found great performance gains… not 1/2" inch on my arms gains, but performance gains…

From the list above, I know Poliquin has talked baout the D.O. method, and Tate and Simmons use bands and fast eccentrics at times to accentuate the force absorbed… seems pretty similar to what Inno is doing, except with different weights and speeds (more emphasis on speed-strength when needed).

Also, what concepts did Inno redefine? Or are you talking about their naming of types of lifting methods? I just noticed that completely unbacked statement in your argument, so I was just wondering if I could get examples.

With some help, you may just convince me to stop trying to decipher Inno articles.

Thanks Charles.

J

92

RJ~

A huge issue for you may simply be weight. You are heavy for all of the triple jumpers I know. 200 pounds bounding down the track is pretty scary.

I can tell you this, when I went off to college, I had to keep weight for football, gain it actually. I graduated at 157, and my senior year I tripled 45’ with never having done it before (only ran track senior year). I was just all speed down the track, and honestly have poor reactivity, so I had the worst bruised heal ever.

By the time I got to 190 in college and went out for track, I couldn’t even triple jump. My knees and heals just got tore up… but, I was actually faster… go figure.

Sad really.

I would look into the weight issue. You look jacked, but 200 is a big triple jumper from what I know.

J

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[quote]RJ24 wrote:
Climbon, I thought you could mix DUR and MAG work in the same cycle.

Also, what would you recommend for a reactive warm up? I don’t want to risk messing up my reactive function any more than necessary, so a brief example would be wonderful.

Thanks, and I appreciate everyone’s patience. I have the book and I’m learning that applications, but experience is appearing to be valuable.

RJ

[/quote]

As squattin said, you can mix Mag and Dur. I am assuming that you have been doing a good bit of Mag work in training for your events. That is why I was recommending a pure strength block, but I could be wrong. This is where it would be nice to know your previous training and see how you perform.

For the warm up, I would suggest a dynamic warm up (some video clips are on the inno-sport site under restorative warm up and there are examples on this site). As part of this, you want to perform exercises at an easy intensity that you will be using during your next cycle. That way you do not waste time learning a new movement and limit your progress.

As far as reactivity goes, you can do any RFI activity (low box speed jumps, four square, side to side jumps, etc.) as part of your warm up.

Squattin is also right, ISO’s and ADA’s should help with stiffness.

94

It means that I bought the book “The Best Sports Training Book Ever” and it failed to help me understand what the system and/or methods really are. Again, I have no comment regarding the system because I have no idea what it is! It may be great in fact, who knows!!! I wish the author (dietrich Buchenholz) would surface here and help us all understand his method…can any of the InnoSport guys make that happen?

Charles~

95

Come to think of it, can Shugs conduct an interview with Buchenholz? I think it’d be really interesting to say the least, and it’d really raise awareness of his philosophies and methods, not to mention book sales…Chris, are you game?

96

I wonder if Kelly B or Thibaudeau has anything to add. Hey, Staley, SUJO!!!

97

Ya know what Charles I have heard all those lectures to! I have even spent time listening to you. What the hell does that mean? Because someone is different or writes different their stuff is no good?? I like the descriptions given because we need them. Again when some one says I do Plyo?s…what the heck does that mean? Inno-sport offers answers to what you are actually seeing in movement. It offers answers to why people are not explosive or reactive or strong. This system is the only system that trains an athlete at the individual specific level.

I know you have seen some of Jays stuff. So why is it ok for him to give different names to exercises and not Inno-sport? Jay talks about the difference between altitude drops and rebound reps, but I assume that is too complex also. I think talking about strength training and defining up and down reps as opposed to ISO reps as opposed to OI (oscillating reps) is very important.

You should be saying, hey we finally have the nomenclature to understand movement in the weight room and talk about specifics along the force time curve. Have you recently tried to translate any Russian stuff? It gets pretty complex my friend

That?s not a real good explanation of why you don?t like something or would follow something. Hey I received a long jump book from Germany and for the longest time didn?t understand it…should I throw it out?? Na, I’ll keep networking until I get the whole thing translated and put into terms I understand. Matter of fact, I have done that already and found good and bad in the book. That?s what learning is about. True learning!

Do your thing, but don?t criticize something you know nothing about. And if you don?t spend the time trying to figure it out, don?t say it?s worthless.

98

OK, is SUJO another one of those InnoSport acronyms?

[quote]Ze wrote:
I wonder if Kelly B or Thibaudeau has anything to add. Hey, Staley, SUJO!!![/quote]

99

[quote]climbon wrote:
As squattin said, you can mix Mag and Dur. I am assuming that you have been doing a good bit of Mag work in training for your events. That is why I was recommending a pure strength block, but I could be wrong. This is where it would be nice to know your previous training and see how you perform.

For the warm up, I would suggest a dynamic warm up (some video clips are on the inno-sport site under restorative warm up and there are examples on this site). As part of this, you want to perform exercises at an easy intensity that you will be using during your next cycle. That way you do not waste time learning a new movement and limit your progress.

As far as reactivity goes, you can do any RFI activity (low box speed jumps, four square, side to side jumps, etc.) as part of your warm up.

Squattin is also right, ISO’s and ADA’s should help with stiffness.[/quote]

I think that using DUR methods as a “deload” from all the rate and mag work may be a good idea, or a GPP block of Rate and Dur for 25-40 seconds may be good. Do a bunch of prehab stuff in the dur work and some light Rate work (skips, ladders, etc…) not worrying about absolutes or drop offs, just conditioning, injury prevention, and recovery

100

My point exactly! I DON’T know anything about InnoSport, despite struggling through the book to no avail! Can we get DB to do an article or an interview with T-Mag so we can all learn more about it?

[quote]dan416 wrote:

Do your thing, but don?t criticize something you know nothing about. And if you don?t spend the time trying to figure it out, don?t say it?s worthless.
[/quote]