Inno-Sport Thread

Training Powerlifting
61

[quote]SShafley wrote:
If you’re going to make up a name, redo the stuff you learned from Jay Schroeder and EliteFTS, and want to embark on an adventure of Guruhood, you need to bust out some funky abbreviations.

Despite how good an Innosport workout might be, there’s always that underlying feeling that Nuttal and his amigos have tried to pull a fast one on you.[/quote]

I truly do not believe that the guys at inno-sport are trying to be in the “Guruhood.” Schroeder has also renamed lifts, yet no one harasses him or people who follow his methods. The abbreviations used explain the lifts (this is the same as Schroeder). Also, read Zatsiorsky’s Science and Practice of Strength Training. Some of the nomenclature from inno-sport should look pretty familiar.

62

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
What is inno-sport? I’m guessing it’s some kind of routine meant to increase power?

Someone’s going to tell me to “go buy the book” before I ask questions, but I would like to at least know what it is.[/quote]

The site is inno-sport.net. I also recommend reading the training basics article by kelly Baggett. To learn/understand the system/principles, you probably will need to buy the book at some point. You can learn a lot by reading all of the articles and setting up your own cycles. However, most people (myself included) find that the book helps the articles make more sense and vice versa.

63

Climb-On~

Besides for the Archuletta video, what other resources do you have on schroeder? Talk about a guy who missed the bag… or in this case the T-baggers. When his self made white boy hit the big time, he could have milked the world for millions.

If guys with a funny accent, or jacked skateboarders, or washed up wrestlers can be marketing gurus, why not him? Even Jay’s site (ERP of whatever) sucks.

Man, he missed the bag, and I just want to learn from the guy, LOL. Could have made millions helping spread knowledge.

It’s a shame.

64

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
squattin600 wrote:
RJ24 wrote:
Okay, back to training questions everyone.

What exercises would be best to help build power absorbtion in the legs for the triple jump? I was thinking single leg bounds and running and ADA Split squats.

You see, I’m having trouble recovering from the first hop (my knee tends to collapse) and need to stiffen up. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
RJ

I think it would depend on where you are in your development. seeing people helps a lot too.

I’d start with the feet. How’s your PF stiffness? and work my way up the chain from there.

Unfortunately I’m not too familiar with triple jump technique so this is a guess. Maybe Dan can chime in. He trains an awesome triple jumper.

Here’s my guess:

Perhaps your plantar stiffness is not up to par (or hip extension power) so your body is collapsing the knee to allow the quads to drive the movement rather than the post. chain (gastroc and hips).

My words are not flowin today so if this doesn;t make sense then feel free to ignore

I’d love to hear what others have to say

Thank you, this might be it. I’ve been a gym rat for a while now, so it may be my PF stiffness. Would if just do stiff legged ADA drops for this?

Also, what would you recommend to increase hip extension power? Like I said, 1-leg bounds seem like a good idea to me.

Thanks,
RJ[/quote]

I agree with squattin and jumanji. It is hard to give specific details without seeing you. That is why I mentioned performing different tests to assess your strengths and weaknesses. You could also ask your coach what areas in your technique, etc. are subpar.

As far as PF stiffness goes, I would begin now doing ankle and toe crampers at the end of your workouts. These are extended isometric holds in stretch position and fully contracted position. You can also do various barbell walks. You can perform all movements in the gym on your toes to some extent (it does not have to be in fully contracted position). You can do ADA stiff legged drops like you mentioned and RFI drills. As you can see, there are a lot of options.

To increase hip extension, you also have many options. You can use any Duration methodics to build strength. You can perform weight room exercises using REA methods among others. You can also use bounds, like you mentioned, primetimes, etc.

I know you are wanting to do a power phase, but you need to make sure that is your weakness. You need a solid foundation of strength or your power cycle will produce less than optimal results. Also, before you begin REA or RA (depth jumps, etc.) make sure you can absorb force/power first. Once you can absorb force and power correctly, then you will be able to express more force/power. Go to the site and read all of the articles by Chris Korfist. He has several articles on speed training and PF stiffness (I stole some/most of his recommendations). Also read Torsion Training by DB to get an idea on how to systematically progress your training (power absorption–>power expression).

65

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
PS~ I also doubt DB exists, but who cares. The mass jumps on new ideas when it is spouted by some weird sketchy guy. Davies, Pavel, Furey… need I name more?

They all had very different takes on performance and fitness… worthless? Nope. Worth learning from? Definitely.

I think I remember a Bruce Lee quote… hmmm.[/quote]

There’s no reason to overcomplicate things or try to have some secret guy training secret athletes in secret.

It’s just a marketing ploy aimed at people who think fancy talk equals better.

I bought the book from Elite and found it to be an unreadable piece of dreck.

66

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Climb-On~

Besides for the Archuletta video, what other resources do you have on schroeder? Talk about a guy who missed the bag… or in this case the T-baggers. When his self made white boy hit the big time, he could have milked the world for millions.

If guys with a funny accent, or jacked skateboarders, or washed up wrestlers can be marketing gurus, why not him? Even Jay’s site (ERP of whatever) sucks.

Man, he missed the bag, and I just want to learn from the guy, LOL. Could have made millions helping spread knowledge.

It’s a shame.[/quote]

I found a few things searching through the archives of Supertraining. He also wrote a couple of articles for Powerlifting USA (I think). However, I haven’t been able to order any back issues. Let me know if you want any of this information; I think I have it saved some where.

I’m not sure how authentic the information is that I got from the Supertraining site. Assuming it is, there are definitely some similarities to Inno-sport in regards to exercise performance and restoration.

I agree that he could have made a ton of money. All that was needed was for him to give some general guidelines on program design and progression. Imagine how many people would have signed up for online consultations that included video analysis.

67

There are very little similarities between what Jay does and Inno-Sport.

  1. Jay doesn?t run his athletes
  2. The volume is completely different
  3. The fatigue induced over the week, the training session or different cycles is completely different.
  4. The evaluation of an athlete from a biomechanical stand point is different
  5. Rotation of exercises
  6. Exercise selection is very different
    The same in that
  7. Both train eccentrically a lot (but so do a lot of programs)
  8. Altitude drops are a main stay
  9. Both believe in restoration intra set and after workouts (although not the same methodic are used)
68

Dan~

Resource on Schroeder material?

J

69

I realize there is no need to overcomplicate things, but if one were going to use a 4week strength block, would it be fine to incorporate altitude drops into this block of training in preparation for future work in a power block? And if that is alright, would it be okay to do them on the same day as the strength training(before the weights or as an AM session) or would they need to be done on a separate day?

70

[quote]dan416 wrote:
There are very little similarities between what Jay does and Inno-Sport.

  1. Jay doesn?t run his athletes
  2. The volume is completely different
  3. The fatigue induced over the week, the training session or different cycles is completely different.
  4. The evaluation of an athlete from a biomechanical stand point is different
  5. Rotation of exercises
  6. Exercise selection is very different
    The same in that
  7. Both train eccentrically a lot (but so do a lot of programs)
  8. Altitude drops are a main stay
  9. Both believe in restoration intra set and after workouts (although not the same methodic are used)

[/quote]

Dan I do am not for certain but I have read that Schroeder tries to train his athletes in a 3% overtrained state, possibly he feels that the longer this can be maintained the greater the supercompensatory effect when the volume or load is reduced…I also think that Schroeder uses a less exercises as the athletes progress through the system and if you have seen his video, the exercises there are what the elite athletes of his training program perform. If you have read Jay’s old USA powerlifting article, you will see that he depended heavily on timing of certain supplements along with high volume of training, I think it was like 8 bench workouts a week??? or something like that.

On the topic of the “stiffness” post, I think that there are many ways to improve this but one way might be to get into a similar positon and hold yourself there in an ismoetric position. I think Jay does an isometric holds in an extreme positon for the bench and for the one legged squat…I think what this does is it teaches the body how to hold and control force in that or near that angle of movement.
For example: if you get three chairs, place them so you can do a push up, one for each hand and one for both feet, then you sink down to as far as you can go, hold that position for as long as you can, add weight to your back and hold, whatever…I think that this helps to create a strong muscular tension in that postion so when you bench, you will have created almost like a bench shirt out of your own muslce/tendon/nervous sysetem, connection. I think Mr. Nuttal wrote something about this on his site I think.
Sorry for the confusing post, I am still trying to figure all this stuff out, what they do, why, and how…I also think that the drop off method used by inno-sport is much better than just doing 3x10, becasue you are never performing at the same level each day and by using a drop off you at least can ensure you are working to you potential on that given day.

71

[quote]RonnieM wrote:
I realize there is no need to overcomplicate things, but if one were going to use a 4week strength block, would it be fine to incorporate altitude drops into this block of training in preparation for future work in a power block? And if that is alright, would it be okay to do them on the same day as the strength training(before the weights or as an AM session) or would they need to be done on a separate day?[/quote]

It would be fine. Either submaximal ADA’s as part of a warm up before your strrength session to work out any technique kinks, before you add them to a block, OR you could also include them in a strength block. In inno-sport speak Strength training is DUR, ADA’s are MAG, Dot drills etc… are RATE

A cycle can train MAG and DUR, or MAG and RATE but not RATE and DUR

So strength work and ADA’s would be fine

72

[quote]RonnieM wrote:
I realize there is no need to overcomplicate things, but if one were going to use a 4week strength block, would it be fine to incorporate altitude drops into this block of training in preparation for future work in a power block? And if that is alright, would it be okay to do them on the same day as the strength training(before the weights or as an AM session) or would they need to be done on a separate day?[/quote]

Also, I would always include any new/unfamiliar exercises at a submax effort as part of the warm up to help gauge preparedness for the exercise and work out technique flaws

73

[quote]rbm098 wrote:
Dan I do am not for certain but I have read that Schroeder tries to train his athletes in a 3% overtrained state, possibly he feels that the longer this can be maintained the greater the supercompensatory effect when the volume or load is reduced…I also think that Schroeder uses a less exercises as the athletes progress through the system and if you have seen his video, the exercises there are what the elite athletes of his training program perform. If you have read Jay’s old USA powerlifting article, you will see that he depended heavily on timing of certain supplements along with high volume of training, I think it was like 8 bench workouts a week??? or something like that.

On the topic of the “stiffness” post, I think that there are many ways to improve this but one way might be to get into a similar positon and hold yourself there in an ismoetric position. I think Jay does an isometric holds in an extreme positon for the bench and for the one legged squat…I think what this does is it teaches the body how to hold and control force in that or near that angle of movement.
For example: if you get three chairs, place them so you can do a push up, one for each hand and one for both feet, then you sink down to as far as you can go, hold that position for as long as you can, add weight to your back and hold, whatever…I think that this helps to create a strong muscular tension in that postion so when you bench, you will have created almost like a bench shirt out of your own muslce/tendon/nervous sysetem, connection. I think Mr. Nuttal wrote something about this on his site I think.
Sorry for the confusing post, I am still trying to figure all this stuff out, what they do, why, and how…I also think that the drop off method used by inno-sport is much better than just doing 3x10, becasue you are never performing at the same level each day and by using a drop off you at least can ensure you are working to you potential on that given day.
[/quote]

You are right about stiffness and iso’s. Dan mentioned somewhere a study showing long duration iso’s having great improvements on stiffness.

And the Jay S overtrained state, I thik it was 6 or 7%.

And having read the plusa articles, a while ago, I dont remember them benching 8x/week. I think the program was like 2-3x/week. But I could be wrong, I have been wrong many times before.

74

Is DB Hammer still around? He’d be a good contributor to this thread.

75

Damn you RJ, I spend a couple days off T-Nation studying for exams and you start this awesome thread!

I was actually thinking about posting my training log up on this site (and probably the DB board as well). I think I’ll probably do that in a couple of weeks. My competitive season (volleyball) just ended, so I’ve been doing a little bit of a “hypertrophy” block to give my body a rest from all the RATE and MAG work from practices and games. After this, I’m probably going to really blast MaxS (while hitting the OI and easy rate stuff to try to keep my reactivity in order) for a while to get ready to transfer into some MAG work before the season gets underway in January.

I think one problem people see with the Inno-Sport system is that they feel like they have to try to design this perfect program using exactly what Brad/DB/whoever says in the book. They key is to take out the principles and see how they are applied. This follows for any author/training system really.

“Methods are many, principles are few. Methods always change, but principles never do.”

Although I think that some of the Inno-Sport methods are superior to others.

Here’s a set-up I’ve found to be great for increasing MaxS, although it’s not set-up exactly as Inno-Sport prescribes it, I try to follow the general set-up.

Session 1 DUR An-1
A1. PIM N x 1-3 reps
A2. ISO N x 5-9 secs
B. One or two assistance exercises in the 4-6 rep range for a couple of sets. For lower body for me this is usually GHR’s because my glutes are way stronger than my hams.

Session 2 DUR An-2
A1. PIM N x 6-8 reps
A2. ISO N x 20-30 secs
B. One or two assistance exercises in the 10-15 rep range.

I only like to rotate 1 or 2 exercises. Maybe I am still in the beginning stage, but I feel like I need at least 4 hybrids in my workouts and it could be me, but I think I need more than 90 seconds between exercises.

Anyway, that’s what’s worked for me- I’d love to hear others.

76

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone.

I’ve decided that as soon as track season is over I’m going to build up some more strength and hopefully increase my force and power absorbtion too. How does this look for a cycle?

4:1 Frequency/Fatigue Ratio
6% and 12% Dropoffs

Session 1
1/2 Squat ADA N x 3
PIM Squats N x 5-9 sec
PIM 1 Leg Hyper N x 9-25 sec
Natural GHR 2-3 x failure
Toe Crampers 3 x 25-40 sec

Session 2
1/2 Squat RA N x 3 @ 60% Drop Height
REA Squats N x 4 @ 51% AW
REA Squats N x 4 @ 63% AW

I really want to increase my hip extension power and reactive ability, but I know I need to build up the basics first.

After evaluating myself, I’ve found myself to have rather poor reactive ability, comparatively speaking. I’m pretty sure this happened this can be traced to too much time in the gym, not enough on a track. I can squat 335 @ a weight of 200 and have a vertical of 30-31", but I can’t get nearly as high off of a rebound. Is the plan above what anyone would suggest? Jumanji, Climbon?

Thanks,
RJ

77

Sorry to post again, but do you jump at the top of REA squats? Kelly wrote about them saying that you do, but the people in the Inno-Sport videos stay on the ground. I understand jumping would teach one to develop power at toe off, but it feels awkward to me.

Once again, thanks,
RJ

78

no jumping at the top.

79

[quote]dan416 wrote:
There are very little similarities between what Jay does and Inno-Sport.

  1. Jay doesn?t run his athletes
  2. The volume is completely different
  3. The fatigue induced over the week, the training session or different cycles is completely different.
  4. The evaluation of an athlete from a biomechanical stand point is different
  5. Rotation of exercises
  6. Exercise selection is very different
    The same in that
  7. Both train eccentrically a lot (but so do a lot of programs)
  8. Altitude drops are a main stay
  9. Both believe in restoration intra set and after workouts (although not the same methodic are used)

[/quote]

I apologize if I was implying that they designed similar programs. When I mentioned them being similar, I was referring to the exact 3 things you listed.

80

Does anyone think they can give the full names of all the abbreviations that they use?? Im really confused when they describe the exercises with those three letters before every exercise. Thanks