Just curious, did the controversy over Dave Hoff allegedly stuffing his bench shirt with what looked like a three-board back in 2009 ever get cleared up?
[quote]kgildner wrote:
Just curious, did the controversy over Dave Hoff allegedly stuffing his bench shirt with what looked like a three-board back in 2009 ever get cleared up?[/quote]
It was either a knee wrap or he had a huge tumor for just the bench press.
And I think the final word was that the judges didn’t catch him in the act, so they can’t retroactively do anything based on video.
Looks like a fire extinguisher.
I heard Lilley in an interview once, denounce one of his own squats for being to high.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
totally natural bro.[/quote]
Maybe he just got boner there.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]kgildner wrote:
Just curious, did the controversy over Dave Hoff allegedly stuffing his bench shirt with what looked like a three-board back in 2009 ever get cleared up?[/quote]
It was either a knee wrap or he had a huge tumor for just the bench press.
And I think the final word was that the judges didn’t catch him in the act, so they can’t retroactively do anything based on video.[/quote]
Holy shit I’d never seen that. That’s totally absurd. What do you mean ‘didn’t catch him in the act’? Did the judges not watch the bench press actually happening? Catching him would involve looking at him at any point. So to ‘catch’ him, it sounds like they would have had to watch him inserting the object into his gear.
It’s like the judges would have had to say something along the lines of “well, we could tell there was an object protruding 4-6 inches above his chest, because any idiot would see that, but we didn’t see him actually PUT the object there. And as we all know, once it’s in there, there’s absolutely nothing we can do! What did you want us to do, ask him to take it out? HA!”
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]kgildner wrote:
Just curious, did the controversy over Dave Hoff allegedly stuffing his bench shirt with what looked like a three-board back in 2009 ever get cleared up?[/quote]
It was either a knee wrap or he had a huge tumor for just the bench press.
And I think the final word was that the judges didn’t catch him in the act, so they can’t retroactively do anything based on video.[/quote]
Holy shit I’d never seen that. That’s totally absurd. What do you mean ‘didn’t catch him in the act’? Did the judges not watch the bench press actually happening? Catching him would involve looking at him at any point. So to ‘catch’ him, it sounds like they would have had to watch him inserting the object into his gear.
It’s like the judges would have had to say something along the lines of “well, we could tell there was an object protruding 4-6 inches above his chest, because any idiot would see that, but we didn’t see him actually PUT the object there. And as we all know, once it’s in there, there’s absolutely nothing we can do! What did you want us to do, ask him to take it out? HA!”[/quote]
I think Dave had to give the money back. In addition, he was “kicked out of West Side” and barred from ever competing in the Pro division in SPF meets again. I don’t know how he wasn’t caught @ the meet, but the video was pretty conclusive and everybody involved took a lot of heat for it.
He obviously still lifts at West Side and obviously still competes for money.
I think eventually the blame was placed on his handler for “putting him up to it” but that’s hear-say.
Speaking from an outside perspective that sucks.
If you don’t care about growing your sport fine, but when someone can run to any federation who will pass him outside interest will definitely decline.
As someone who watches espn all the time, I’ll watch a dozen different strongman, track and other sports in the football off season. It’s fun and pretty amazing to see even elite crossfitters do the things they do but they have pretty consistent rules. I would laugh and turn that squat off because it looks like he’s barely moving.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Speaking from an outside perspective that sucks.
If you don’t care about growing your sport fine, but when someone can run to any federation who will pass him outside interest will definitely decline.
As someone who watches espn all the time, I’ll watch a dozen different strongman, track and other sports in the football off season. It’s fun and pretty amazing to see even elite crossfitters do the things they do but they have pretty consistent rules. I would laugh and turn that squat off because it looks like he’s barely moving.
[/quote]
Honestly, I think you would turn the TV off before it ever got to that squat.
I’m honestly curious how many folks here have actually been to/watched a powerlifting meet. It’s boring and lasts all day. Even great shows put on by good promoters are going to boil down to a lot of downtime spent setting up weights just to watch someone lift one rep. It’s cool to watch on youtube because it means you cut out all the fluff and just watch the lift, but as an actual spectator sport, it’s left wanting.
Really, if the goal is to make powerlifting bigger and more marketable, just make it a deadlift competition.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Speaking from an outside perspective that sucks.
If you don’t care about growing your sport fine, but when someone can run to any federation who will pass him outside interest will definitely decline.
As someone who watches espn all the time, I’ll watch a dozen different strongman, track and other sports in the football off season. It’s fun and pretty amazing to see even elite crossfitters do the things they do but they have pretty consistent rules. I would laugh and turn that squat off because it looks like he’s barely moving.
[/quote]
Honestly, I think you would turn the TV off before it ever got to that squat.
I’m honestly curious how many folks here have actually been to/watched a powerlifting meet. It’s boring and lasts all day. Even great shows put on by good promoters are going to boil down to a lot of downtime spent setting up weights just to watch someone lift one rep. It’s cool to watch on youtube because it means you cut out all the fluff and just watch the lift, but as an actual spectator sport, it’s left wanting.
Really, if the goal is to make powerlifting bigger and more marketable, just make it a deadlift competition.[/quote]
Right on all accounts. The only argument to be made against these ridiculous Feds is that they do damage to the sport as a whole to outsiders, limiting growth of the sport. The problem with that is, no matter what powerlifting does, it will never, ever generate considerable interest. It’s just not made to be a spectator sport. Powerlifting only matters to powerlifters, and I don’t think there’s any way to generate interest outside of the lifting community. Hell, oly lifting is waaaay more interesting to watch, and people still don’t watch it outside of the olympic games.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Honestly, I think you would turn the TV off before it ever got to that squat.
I’m honestly curious how many folks here have actually been to/watched a powerlifting meet. It’s boring and lasts all day. Even great shows put on by good promoters are going to boil down to a lot of downtime spent setting up weights just to watch someone lift one rep. It’s cool to watch on youtube because it means you cut out all the fluff and just watch the lift, but as an actual spectator sport, it’s left wanting.
Really, if the goal is to make powerlifting bigger and more marketable, just make it a deadlift competition.[/quote]
I’ll have to echo this. Powerlifting meets are boring as hell to watch, unless you are competing in it or you have a group of friends/team. Bench is the most boring to watch. Squats and deadlifts are the more entertaining one.
But I have to say stunts like this definitely prevents the sport as a whole from ever progressing. Kids today are gonna see videos like this and go out there partial squatting thinking it is okay because the WR holder did it, and this will continue to spread etc etc. Geared lifting is an entirely different sport and I don’t follow it. The only meet that I really follow is RUM and that’s the one meet I hope to compete in one day.
So Hoff’s squat was passed but did anyone catch the judge who redlighted Bill Kaz’s squat in the video posted. Wtf? Subjective much? As far as squat depth is concerned, some form of objectivity definitely needs to be brought up.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Yet another reason for me to not care about multi-ply. If you just like to lift, there is raw. If you like to add in an element that separates the sport from gym lifts, there is single ply.
And if you like to do power curtsies, apparently, multi-ply is for you.
The funny thing is that all the multi-ply guys chasing the biggest lifts ever are the ones who are going to end up replaced in the record books with future generations of gear.
[/quote]
Yea multiply is a joke. And to people blaming the judges, there’s instances of westside “goons” intimidating judges to passing things that obviously shouldn’t get 3 whites. There was a big facebook status that some other well known lifter posted this and said he didn’t care if they attempted to kick his ass for saying it. It was a whole big thing, I can’t find the link atm
Everyone keeps blaming MULTI-PLY gear. What the fuck guys. The GD squat suit didn’t squat 6" high, DAVE HOFF did. I mean what do you expect, the guy had a fucking object in his bench shirt for Pete’s sake. Put the blame where it needs to be, on the asshole who did the squat high and MAYBE the guy judging.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Everyone keeps blaming MULTI-PLY gear. What the fuck guys. The GD squat suit didn’t squat 6" high, DAVE HOFF did. I mean what do you expect, the guy had a fucking object in his bench shirt for Pete’s sake. Put the blame where it needs to be, on the asshole who did the squat high and MAYBE the guy judging. [/quote]
That would be true if it were an isolated case.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Everyone keeps blaming MULTI-PLY gear. What the fuck guys. The GD squat suit didn’t squat 6" high, DAVE HOFF did. I mean what do you expect, the guy had a fucking object in his bench shirt for Pete’s sake. Put the blame where it needs to be, on the asshole who did the squat high and MAYBE the guy judging. [/quote]
I agree. Also, plenty of multiply federations have strict judging.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Everyone keeps blaming MULTI-PLY gear. What the fuck guys. The GD squat suit didn’t squat 6" high, DAVE HOFF did. I mean what do you expect, the guy had a fucking object in his bench shirt for Pete’s sake. Put the blame where it needs to be, on the asshole who did the squat high and MAYBE the guy judging. [/quote]
That would be true if it were an isolated case.[/quote]
Again, it isn’t a gear problem, GEAR doesn’t know when a squat is at depth or not. It’s a lifter and judging problem.
I can leave a shit stain on the floor wearing my Metal ACE suit or I can cinch it up so tight I can’t get 700# 1/2 way down and my fucking head blows up from the pressure. The way I see it is blame first the lifter. Then the judge that ok’d that abomination then if they consistently let shit like that fly, blame the fed and don’t patronize them.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Everyone keeps blaming MULTI-PLY gear. What the fuck guys. The GD squat suit didn’t squat 6" high, DAVE HOFF did. I mean what do you expect, the guy had a fucking object in his bench shirt for Pete’s sake. Put the blame where it needs to be, on the asshole who did the squat high and MAYBE the guy judging. [/quote]
That would be true if it were an isolated case.[/quote]
Again, it isn’t a gear problem, GEAR doesn’t know when a squat is at depth or not. It’s a lifter and judging problem.
I can leave a shit stain on the floor wearing my Metal ACE suit or I can cinch it up so tight I can’t get 700# 1/2 way down and my fucking head blows up from the pressure. The way I see it is blame first the lifter. Then the judge that ok’d that abomination then if they consistently let shit like that fly, blame the fed and don’t patronize them. [/quote]
Eh. Seems like an overall mentality thing to me. Do anything to add more weight to the bar. It’s personified in lifts like this. More layers, tighter gear, better technology, higher squats, est. I really see higher squatting as a continuation of the mentality of another layer of gear.
You could still have the same dumb argument about “It may be a half squat, but you couldn’t handle that weight on your back.” or “the strongest half squatter is still the strongest guy.”
I especially like multi-ply guys denouncing the squat just because the SPF has taken the next logical step to add more pounds on the bar. Crazy suits that add 350 pounds to your bench and squat is still true lifting, BUT higher squatting to add some pounds, THAT’S JUST OUTRAGEOUS!!
Oh please, why don’t you just cinch up your suit go to an SPF meet and add some pounds to your total. You just sounds jealous.
This reminds me of Paul Meeker’s recent bench “record”. What a travesty, didn’t even lock it out.
We should be concerned with this, at the very least. Different feds = different rules seems to be an excuse to use lax judging to churn out more records. And their judgment calls don’t even follow their own rules!
On the SPF’s part, it’s a great niche they found, in terms of business. Any unscrupulous lifter wanting to increase his or her total can just compete there.
Fine, you might say, let them keep anyone who’s enough of an asshat to do that. But the problem is that it reflects badly on the rest of us. Look at any vid of geared lifting on YouTube. It’ll have tons of dislikes just for being equipped, even if it’s a good lift. Powerlifting already suffers from a lack of legitimacy in the eyes of the general public. What’s next, 19-ply 1/8th squats being passed?
The problem is that this is a slippery slope. I don’t want to see this catching on and having other lifters/feds saying, “well we want records too (since records are publicity), and if they can pass that shit, why shouldn’t we?” I don’t want to see powerlifting become even more of a joke than it’s already starting to become.
Why we should be concerned is because if we aren’t and we don’t voice our concerns, then we are legitimizing their “records”.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
This reminds me of Paul Meeker’s recent bench “record”. What a travesty, didn’t even lock it out.
We should be concerned with this, at the very least. Different feds = different rules seems to be an excuse to use lax judging to churn out more records. And their judgment calls don’t even follow their own rules!
On the SPF’s part, it’s a great niche they found, in terms of business. Any unscrupulous lifter wanting to increase his or her total can just compete there.
Fine, you might say, let them keep anyone who’s enough of an asshat to do that. But the problem is that it reflects badly on the rest of us. Look at any vid of geared lifting on YouTube. It’ll have tons of dislikes just for being equipped, even if it’s a good lift. Powerlifting already suffers from a lack of legitimacy in the eyes of the general public. What’s next, 19-ply 1/8th squats being passed?
The problem is that this is a slippery slope. I don’t want to see this catching on and having other lifters/feds saying, “well we want records too (since records are publicity), and if they can pass that shit, why shouldn’t we?” I don’t want to see powerlifting become even more of a joke than it’s already starting to become.
Why we should be concerned is because if we aren’t and we don’t voice our concerns, then we are legitimizing their “records”.[/quote]
In light of every fed in the world suddenly becoming a multiply fed that allows high squats, you don’t foresee it being probable that someone else would in turn make their own fed that is more legit because they have the same mindset as you?
Because, as I understand it, that’s why we have so many feds in the first place. Someone gets fed up (pun unintended) with some other federation so they go and make their own. If you really want to combat this, you could always do the same.
I don’t see the IPF following this slippery slope. Ever. If anything, I see them going far in the opposite direction, red lighting the shit out of clearly decent squats just to make a point. I honestly don’t think you need to worry about the slippery slope.