[quote]scottkoscielniak wrote:
But shouldn’t we care even if it is not our fed just because it does get viewed as a world record. Shouldn’t we all band together and find a way to stop this? I guess we can’t if people still compete in those Feds. [/quote]
There are SOOOOO many stupid world records out there. There are ones for staying awake the longest and longest fingernails and crap like that. I don’t care about any of those either.
I compete in powerlifting because I want to lift heavy things. I don’t really care how the general public views it, or about unity or alliances or anything like that. Personally, I like that there are a million federations, because it means everyone can compete however they like, versus having to compete the way someone tells them to compete.[/quote]
In the end you are correct. Part of me just wishes this sport would unify. There can be a few Feds still but it would be pretty awesome for there to be one big time fed that was legit and held state quilifiers for a championship of some sorts. It gets to me that the overall world record totals are such a sham. I guess I’m just as much a fan as I am a competitor sometimes. [/quote]
Would you be satisfied if powerlifting united as a multiply high squatting monolift sport?
Generally, the issue with the “powerlifting unity” idea is that people want powerlifting united under THEIR ruleset, which isn’t much of acompromise. Personally, I just see it as being fun police. No one is making any realmoney from this, its all just a hobby. Some guys want to squat wearing shorts, some guys want to wear kevlar underwear.
I would be satisfied if they followed their rule book. Every fed says the rules in the squat is the hip crease below the knee. While the idea of unity in powerlifting is most likely a “pipe dream” it would be great if there was even a little more unity than what currently is. I do understand that speaking out in a forum does nothing to change a thing. Especially with powerlifting where speaking about unity is like pissing in the wind. I just feel that more lifters need to speak out about certain things to better the sport. If no one cares and brushes it off as “ohh it’s just those goofy multiply folks” we will just get further away from being legit. I’m sure there are multiply athletes that see that shit and get pissed because they get red lighted for that kind of squat.
Personally I could really care less about multiply and feds tailor made for these super high squats and gift giving judges. At the end of the day its whatever you enjoy and are interested in. I just hate hear louie simmons spout off about how his super geared up lifters are the strongest in the world. I mean, would anyone ever accuse hoff of being a stronger lifter than say Efferding or Malanichev?
[quote]cparker wrote:
Personally I could really care less about multiply and feds tailor made for these super high squats and gift giving judges. At the end of the day its whatever you enjoy and are interested in. I just hate hear louie simmons spout off about how his super geared up lifters are the strongest in the world. I mean, would anyone ever accuse hoff of being a stronger lifter than say Efferding or Malanichev?[/quote]
That’s the problem, anyone not in the know will assume he is stronger if he holds the record. The record books don’t differentiate between a legit squat and a Westside squat.
I think our interest will keep driving this in the next few years. If people keep taking more interest in raw or semi-raw or whatever powerlifting, the money and fame shift towards that.
[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
No doubt that Dave Hoff is a strong motherfucker and he can move some serious weight, but that squat was absolute horse shit and everybody knows it. It shouldn’t have counted and he shouldn’t have gotten the record. This is why multi-ply lifting is retarded in my opinion (inb4 shit storm). Of course, you’ll hear people say, “It’s completely different and adds a whole other element to the sport,” which is correct, but still, let’s be honest.
Does anybody find squatting 1,200+ lbs. to 4" ABOVE parallel impressive in any way, shape, or form? I sure as hell don’t, and neither should anybody who gives to shits about this sport.
Don’t get me wrong, the bench and deadlift were legit lifts (even if they were done in multi-ply), but I still can’t get over the squat.
In my opinion, the most pure and unadulterated form of powerlifting is anything done in the IPF, USAPL, or USPF, where you walk your squats out, knee wraps aren’t allowed in the raw division, the judges are nazis when it comes to depth and bench pauses, and the most equipment you can use is single-ply.
I’d like to see how any of these Westside guys fare in any of the legit federations that I mentioned above. Just my $0.02.
inb4 tl;dr.
CS
[/quote]
TLDR just came in to say that the raw division of USPA and RAW UNITED are legit as well in regards to depth.
I think it would be cool if a sensor wire were to be taped to the top of each kneecap and at the crease of each hip (attached by an official with the competitor sitting immediately before the start of the lift), and that a depth indicator would sound and blink when both hip sensors pass below the level of both knee sensors.
Any problems with this scenario? The technology part shouldn’t be too complicated.
[quote]grappling_hook wrote:
I think it would be cool if a sensor wire were to be taped to the top of each kneecap and at the crease of each hip (attached by an official with the competitor sitting immediately before the start of the lift), and that a depth indicator would sound and blink when both hip sensors pass below the level of both knee sensors.
Any problems with this scenario? The technology part shouldn’t be too complicated.
[/quote]
I’m not sure any technological advancements are necessary. Judges know what to look for, and the slight addition of “human error” is what makes it even more exciting. Everyone loves a bad call that causes the team to “lose the big game.” You know, because everything in life comes down to one bad call.
However, like someone previously posted, the issue is politics. Your own coach or members of your team should have no right to judge your lifts. Not only are they biased in the first place, when it comes to breaking world records, well, they hold all of the cards. I’d love to grade my own graduate school exams…
For the people that don’t think it’s a big deal, well that’s your personal opinion. The problem is that in the moment, people in various federations and those that “just don’t care” know it was a bad lift and shrug it off, but the “lay-person” is going to know the name of the person that “broke the record” without all of the extra details we know. That factor alone is what makes it unfair and disappointing to the sport.
At the end of the day, I suppose having so many different federations is a good thing when things like this occur. Those that are passionate about the sport, and compete in a separate federation, may not even think twice about this.
^^^Using technology to determine depth would eliminate stupidity from judges on both sides of the pendulum’s swing. It’s obnoxious seeing high squats passed, but it’s just as obnoxious seeing squats that clearly break parallel and aren’t passed because they’re done in strictly judged federations.
I also strongly agree that no one should ever be judging for their own teams/gyms. It’s an absurdly obvious conflict of interest.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Why are we so concerned with what people not in the know/the layperson thinks about powerlifting?[/quote]
It’s not necessarily that we are “so concerned” (although some people might be, but that’s just there level of passion for the sport I suppose), but for me, it’s more an issue of integrity.
When someone publishes in a scientific journal, publishes something that risks the integrity of the journal, or field in general, it can be extremely frustrating for many scientists; those that publish in that journal and those that don’t. Sure, at the end of the day it may not matter (say it’s a theoretical monopole publication). But the lay person and the media praise the scientists who published, and everyone else knows it’s a sham. It’s just disheartening. Sometimes life, sports, or whatever else, isn’t fair… that doesn’t mean people can’t or shouldn’t get fired up about it, regardless if it directly affects them.
I completely respect the way you handle it, but I also respect the OP and others that handle it a bit different.
I think he did a smart move. He wanted a 3000+ total, he went to the federation and meet that would allow that, and he performed to what would be expected him. He played it smart. I must ask, however, would anyone forsake the glory of the highest total for a rather blurry, always varying, honorable squat? I don’t know.
I think he did a smart move. He wanted a 3000+ total, he went to the federation and meet that would allow that, and he performed to what would be expected him. He played it smart. I must ask, however, would anyone forsake the glory of the highest total for a rather blurry, always varying, honorable squat? I don’t know.[/quote]
Yep. I almost never blame the squatter himself in these instances. I mean he didn’t judge his own depth. Do people want him to come out and forsake his own squat and total out of righteousness? I’m not sure, but that would be a difficult thing for anyone to do, especially given how hard he worked to even approach that.
[quote]grappling_hook wrote:
I think it would be cool if a sensor wire were to be taped to the top of each kneecap and at the crease of each hip (attached by an official with the competitor sitting immediately before the start of the lift), and that a depth indicator would sound and blink when both hip sensors pass below the level of both knee sensors.
Any problems with this scenario? The technology part shouldn’t be too complicated.
[/quote]
The technology would be pretty easy. Even without the immediate sound or blinking, you could have simple infrared visible tape and an infrared filter on a camera. The only issue would be that the camera would have to be either dead center between the knee and the hip to tell for sure.
I think he did a smart move. He wanted a 3000+ total, he went to the federation and meet that would allow that, and he performed to what would be expected him. He played it smart. I must ask, however, would anyone forsake the glory of the highest total for a rather blurry, always varying, honorable squat? I don’t know.[/quote]
Hogwash!
Dave Hoff broke powerlifting’s code of ethics. He deserves to be reprimanded by the council of elders at the next powerlifting tribunal. The men & women of the internet are outraged at his malfeasance!
The only way to resolve this is for the majority to want it resolved. It’s not just the responsibility of the judges, meet promoters or the governing body of powerlifting feds. It’s also up to the lifters. If lifters don’t support those feds, the feds will have to change or discontinue. A big part of the problem is there are too many lifters that are happy with lax judging and high squats.
I gave up multi ply powerlifting in May 2008 and switched to competing raw. I only compete in feds that strictly enforce the rules because I want my lifts to be legit.
Yet another reason for me to not care about multi-ply. If you just like to lift, there is raw. If you like to add in an element that separates the sport from gym lifts, there is single ply.
And if you like to do power curtsies, apparently, multi-ply is for you.
The funny thing is that all the multi-ply guys chasing the biggest lifts ever are the ones who are going to end up replaced in the record books with future generations of gear.
