In Defense of Professor X

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Arem wrote:
There are many, many natural lifters sitting on 220 lbs of LBM.

Where do you lift, planet fitness? Walk into any college gym and you can find former highschool lineman putting big numbers up at big weights while staying natural. [/quote]

  1. Has used prohormones/designer steroids =/= Natural. Professor X has posted in the past that he has used the OLD MAG-10, which was a steroid.

  2. There has never been a natural (who was actually natural) competitive bodybuilder with 220 lbs of LBM at a low bodyfat and average height. NEVER. You can throw up as many pictures of 300 lb football players with 20%+ bodyfat as you like. It’s totally irrelevant to the amount of LBM they would carry if they bothered to get lean and didn’t use drugs to spare the LBM.

  3. You can talk all you want about how much LBM you think you’re carrying based off of how much bodyfat you think you have. The reality is that you are probably overestimating the amount of fat you would have to lose to be lean and you are probably underestimating the amount of LBM that would be lost with that fat dieting without drugs. It’s pretty easy to be 30%+ bf and rationalize your way to thinking that you’re only 18-20%. It’s hard to admit that 50+ lbs of that weight you worked so hard to put on is fat.

  4. You can keep pumping yourself and others up with inflated dreams about how if they work hard, take their vitamins, and say their prayers, they can have pro/top amateur level size and leanness without drugs. Keep lying to yourself, because it’s not going to happen. Why do you think Professor X has never made it through one of this many attempts at dieting? Truth is that most people have no concept of how ENORMOUS 210+ lbs of (in shape) stage weight is for a person of normal height because they’re the biggest person in their gym and have never really been around lean individuals who are that large, just like they think every giant lean dude that they come across claiming to be natural is telling the truth because they’ve never been around that same kind of person when they talk about how much shit they’re ACTUALLY using.

I’m posting a picture of the HW class from last year’s Nationals. All of these guys weigh BELOW 225 lbs on stage. That means in terms of LBM, they’re around 215-220 lbs LBM. I will put as much money as you would like on NONE of them being natural.

Ask any legitimately big guy with low bodyfat. They understand both what it takes to put that kind of size on, AND what taking the fat off actually entails, with and without drugs. Someone like Professor X isn’t going to have an understanding of what dieting down from 270+ lbs really means because he’s never done it himself. I’m sure Waylander could provide more insight on this than most.[/quote]

Yep, people GROSSLY over estimate how much fat they are carrying. just because you can still look half decent while being 15% - 20% bodyfat doesn’t mean you aren’t carrying it.

62

[quote]bwhitwell wrote:
I guess my reason for even becoming a member and taking part in the forum is different than the rest. I like to hear how other people train and eat, and occassionally comment on their acheivements or answer questions. THATS IT!! I can look past the BS or off color crap just as I would if I were in a gym without being a rude asshole. I now remember ONE of the reasons I started training at home.

DISCLAIMER: Sorry if this offends ANYONE.

[/quote]

That is what I used to come here for as well. The FaceBook Boyz seem to have different goals.

Edit: I can guarantee you that if Ronnie Coleman was training with me and said in a very loud voice, “heh, heh, I slayed me a dragon last night when I time warped to 1324bc”, you can bet I would not run out of the gym screaming about what a liar he is until he quit training there.

I would have the common sense to see the bigger picture whether I believed his statement or not.

63

[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
What I find funniest in this thread, is that I have now found out there is a group of people who are supposedly the lifters with the most potential.

I can’t wait till all of them realize there are actually other people on the planet/T NATION who can actually make progress.

Fucking hilarious.[/quote]

You really can’t be this stupid…What do you think T-Cell Alpha and the Brotherhood of Iron subforums on T NATION are?

Trust me though, when a forum gets started for those with the least potential you’ll be quickly nominated as it’s leader.

64

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Guess what CB, maybe some of those other members you listed contacted me privately and shared their thoughts. Maybe they didn’t want to join absurdity of some of those threads so decided to share it via email or PM’s. Did you consider that?[/quote]

Maybe they did. And if they did, you should have said so… Because all I can draw my conclusions from is what I saw, and I didn’t see anyone that didn’t post in the facebook BOI doing any of the ‘call outs’. I’m not going to assume things happened, I’ve been around too long and too much shit to assume too much anymore…

Look I’m not attacking you here, so don’t get that impression. I agree with some of things you said in the threads in question for sure. I agree with a lot of the criticism you have of X. I also agree with a lot of what he said since my time on this site, and a lot of his defenses.

No, I didn’t notice him bringing race into the equation. You are actually the one that keeps bringing it up.

My son is biracial. I must certainly have a race problem. lol…

Stop projecting dude, lol. I was pretty upset when you guys left. This site lost a great core group of intermediate lifters at that point, and hasn’t fully recovered. (hence part of the reason I’m speak out against the “anti-X” campaign on this site the last while.)

You are crazy if you think I was disparaging you, or anyone that is a member of that group lol. I was simply pointing out the fact your statement, based on the facts presented was false. And you can’t prove it wasn’t false by trying to turn this into me putting you down. I didn’t put anyone down. I simply made an observation.

[quote]For the record, we have 2 black guys from this board in our group as well.
[/quote]

How is their race relevant to anything?

[/quote]

They asked for me not to say anything so I’m not going to call them out like that.

Ever heard X say anything bad about a black bodybuilder or anything good about a white bodybuilder? Specifically when comparing the two? Hasn’t happened yet. It doesn’t even bother me, it’s just a hilarious trend. According to him there’s all these poor black guys around the world who fell victim to misfortune who could have been the best of the best and broken all the records in the books at whatever athletic endeavor they chose. That’s why I think it’s funny.

65

[quote]bwhitwell wrote:
I guess my reason for even becoming a member and taking part in the forum is different than the rest. I like to hear how other people train and eat, and occassionally comment on their acheivements or answer questions. THATS IT!! I can look past the BS or off color crap just as I would if I were in a gym without being a rude asshole. I now remember ONE of the reasons I started training at home.

DISCLAIMER: Sorry if this offends ANYONE.

[/quote]

Holy shit! Is that you now b? Out-fucking-standing!!

66

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
The “facebook boi” guys, no offense, are the 20-30 members of this site that have the most potential and who have a better grasp on bodybuilding then most anyone else on this site. So writing them off as insignificant would be wrong. For the record, we have 2 black guys from this board in our group as well.
[/quote]

LOL your group! [/quote]

Yes, I’m a member of that group. What’s funny? We have a national level bodybuilder an elite level powerlifter and a number of other competitors all from this site under the age of 25 who are making insane progress.[/quote]

Good for you. Unless you physically train together though I don’t see the point, especially if you are using this site as the medium.[/quote]

We have trained together and we met on this website 3 years ago. Who do you think made the brotherhood of iron subforum here, “famous”? We used to post in there all the time until a little over a year ago. We moved it to facebook because our posts were taking 8 hours to show up.[/quote]

Thats all well and good. The whole purpose of this forum is for people to HELP each other and get bigger or stronger. Its good to see people achieving goals.

However, the problem (for me atleast) comes in your attitude towards it which has evidently lended a hand in pushing a knowledgeable poster away. You truly do appear to think you are the cool kids at school with their secret club.

I don’t think I am getting across what I mean very well, but basically I couldn’t care less about your secret club and how great you all are. Tnation should be one and not subdivided into cliques. No matter how gay that sounds.
[/quote]

How did I push him away? Because I disagreed with him on the fact he was willing to take on faith that a natural trainee can incline bench press 495 for 15 reps and that those of us saying it was BS were clueless and just trying to stir up shit? Right. If someone is such a baby that they are going to run away from the site because of some disagreement that’s not my problem. How many people do you think X has run off this website with his abrasive attitude?

I didn’t even bring up the facebook group, CB did. I added to it because he seems to think that those in it are scrubs when in fact they make up those with some the greatest potential that T NATION has to offer. Are there plenty of awesome trainee’s here? yah. It’s as much a social group as it is a lifting group. Blame the mods for us moving to facebook. We got all sorts of threads and posts deleted back in the early days of the BOI on this site. Why would we not seek other channels when it took 8 hours to communicate over this forum?[/quote]

Why have you even brought this up with me?
Why would I blame the mods for you moving?

As I said I couldn’t care less about your BOI scouts club, it doesn’t matter to me that you’ve sought another medium for your discussion. It’s perfectly logical that you would.

However, you have missed the point I am making. The point I am trying to get across to you is that most of these discussions have turned into attacks (for want of a better word). For instance, what used to be a fair discussion is often turned into PersonA says something, PersonB disagrees, all of PersonAs friends join in to shout down PersonB.

Perhaps you will disagree with this. But look at this thread even. Atleast 3 members of your group have rushed in to support you. Thats not so much a problem in itself when a logical argument is brought forward. However, comments such as:

Who does this kid think he is?[/quote]

Bonez is an active member here, how did he rush in here to support me? I guess everyone that thought 495x15 incline was bullshit are my e-buddies that felt they had to take up the cause because we are best friends. This thread was made about a member who many think is a total asshole, how exactly did you think discussion would go in here.

Bruceleefan is a dumbass, I don’t care if someone calls him out.

67

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bwhitwell wrote:
I guess my reason for even becoming a member and taking part in the forum is different than the rest. I like to hear how other people train and eat, and occassionally comment on their acheivements or answer questions. THATS IT!! I can look past the BS or off color crap just as I would if I were in a gym without being a rude asshole. I now remember ONE of the reasons I started training at home.

DISCLAIMER: Sorry if this offends ANYONE.

[/quote]

That is what I used to come here for as well. The FaceBook Boyz seem to have different goals.

Edit: I can guarantee you that if Ronnie Coleman was training with me and said in a very loud voice, “heh, heh, I slayed me a dragon last night when I time warped to 1324bc”, you can bet I would not run out of the gym screaming about what a liar he is until he quit training there.

I would have the common sense to see the bigger picture whether I believed his statement or not.
[/quote]

Um no, it’s more like saying I’m the strongest presser in the world, I will provide no proof of this but here is how I train…

That would be like me saying, I’m a better bodybuilder than ronnie coleman, I could beat him on stage if I wanted but I don’t feel the need. Here’s how I got to looking this way…

At least you finally admitted he lied by equating his claim to slaying a dragon in 1324 BC haha

68

I thought this was a bodybuilding forum…

69

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I thought this was a bodybuilding forum…[/quote]

No its for bitching . You’re better off learning in a gym and using these forums for entertainment.

Bb forum is all for the lulz now

70

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bwhitwell wrote:
I guess my reason for even becoming a member and taking part in the forum is different than the rest. I like to hear how other people train and eat, and occassionally comment on their acheivements or answer questions. THATS IT!! I can look past the BS or off color crap just as I would if I were in a gym without being a rude asshole. I now remember ONE of the reasons I started training at home.

DISCLAIMER: Sorry if this offends ANYONE.

[/quote]

That is what I used to come here for as well. The FaceBook Boyz seem to have different goals.

Edit: I can guarantee you that if Ronnie Coleman was training with me and said in a very loud voice, “heh, heh, I slayed me a dragon last night when I time warped to 1324bc”, you can bet I would not run out of the gym screaming about what a liar he is until he quit training there.

I would have the common sense to see the bigger picture whether I believed his statement or not.
[/quote]
Man, your new avatar is unreal, your shoulders are so big that it makes your head disprortionately tiny- a problem very few people have.

71

Why can’t you all just make peace and try to get this forum on track again?

72

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
Why can’t you all just make peace and try to get this forum on track again?[/quote]

NO PEACE MAKE WAR!

73

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I thought this was a bodybuilding forum…[/quote]

start training legs.

74

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
Why can’t you all just make peace and try to get this forum on track again?[/quote]

Pretty sure this has happened since T NATION started, my theory is the same people get tired of discussing the same stuff year on year in the same place so people get bored, start nitpicking as no one wants to jump on an internet forum just to say “i agree”, fights start, people leave, goes back to normal until the next cycle.

Just a theory though.

75

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
They asked for me not to say anything so I’m not going to call them out like that.[/quote]

Fair enough. But you get how I would never have know that right? lol.

I never really noticed either way to be honest. I’m not saying that to be a doucher either. I never really did.

Sometimes I wonder if now that you said it, people look for it, and it “makes it true”.

I have no idea.

While I feel like you are taking his words a bit too literal here… In all honestly, genetically speaking, the chance of that “being true” is probably pretty good.

Is there another MJ selling pizza around the corner from Bonez’ house? No, because he would have been MJ. Everything has to fall into place in order to be the GOAT.

But out of 6 billion people, I’m sure there is a dude or two who could have been a hall of fame third baseman, but instead of going to practice one day at 16 tried smack. That is what makes the people that make it so special; all the people that failed before them.

I’m not saying it’s common, but there are certainly people that “had it all” and fucked up. And a couple people that had an outside chance, but never put in the work.

Hey, I don’t know. Maybe I’m a fool for believing that. It is certainly not common… But it isn’t impossible either.

76

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I thought this was a bodybuilding forum…[/quote]

start training legs.[/quote]

squats plz

77

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I thought this was a bodybuilding forum…[/quote]

start training legs.[/quote]

squats plz[/quote]
dun forrgetz de milkzzz brah

78

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
They asked for me not to say anything so I’m not going to call them out like that.[/quote]

Fair enough. But you get how I would never have know that right? lol.

I never really noticed either way to be honest. I’m not saying that to be a doucher either. I never really did.

Sometimes I wonder if now that you said it, people look for it, and it “makes it true”.

I have no idea.

While I feel like you are taking his words a bit too literal here… In all honestly, genetically speaking, the chance of that “being true” is probably pretty good.

Is there another MJ selling pizza around the corner from Bonez’ house? No, because he would have been MJ. Everything has to fall into place in order to be the GOAT.

But out of 6 billion people, I’m sure there is a dude or two who could have been a hall of fame third baseman, but instead of going to practice one day at 16 tried smack. That is what makes the people that make it so special; all the people that failed before them.

I’m not saying it’s common, but there are certainly people that “had it all” and fucked up. And a couple people that had an outside chance, but never put in the work.

Hey, I don’t know. Maybe I’m a fool for believing that. It is certainly not common… But it isn’t impossible either.
[/quote]

Not saying it isn’t possible, it certainly is. I just LOL because he always says these genetic freaks are the black guys in big cities living in the projects. It’s never a white guy living on a farm in Iowa or something like that.

EDIT: White guy living on a farm in Iowa, except for ajweins.

79

Thanks for the encouragement Waylander…(white guy who lived on a farm in Iowa).

80

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
They asked for me not to say anything so I’m not going to call them out like that.[/quote]

Fair enough. But you get how I would never have know that right? lol.

I never really noticed either way to be honest. I’m not saying that to be a doucher either. I never really did.

Sometimes I wonder if now that you said it, people look for it, and it “makes it true”.

I have no idea.

While I feel like you are taking his words a bit too literal here… In all honestly, genetically speaking, the chance of that “being true” is probably pretty good.

Is there another MJ selling pizza around the corner from Bonez’ house? No, because he would have been MJ. Everything has to fall into place in order to be the GOAT.

But out of 6 billion people, I’m sure there is a dude or two who could have been a hall of fame third baseman, but instead of going to practice one day at 16 tried smack. That is what makes the people that make it so special; all the people that failed before them.

I’m not saying it’s common, but there are certainly people that “had it all” and fucked up. And a couple people that had an outside chance, but never put in the work.

Hey, I don’t know. Maybe I’m a fool for believing that. It is certainly not common… But it isn’t impossible either.
[/quote]

Not saying it isn’t possible, it certainly is. I just LOL because he always says these genetic freaks are the black guys in big cities living in the projects. It’s never a white guy living on a farm in Iowa or something like that.[/quote]