How Many Carbs Are 'Low-Carb'?

Diet and Nutrition
1

First post so forgive me a shade.

Have been training well for about 6 months, lost 35kgs so far. However, I need to take a more low carb approach to my diet. I’m now 255lbs. I started at 150kgs (well over 300lbs), so I think i’m doing ‘all right’ but I want to get it nailed on. I love training, I love eating right, so it makes sense to do it right!

Got round to weighing up my food/keeping a log and when I added the totals, it turns out i’m not really eating enough, around about 1700cals a day. Protein intake is around 220g per day (probably a little high for my LBM, but its going in)

Carbs however are down at 100g! I have cut out breads and basically my only carbs come from my breakfast shake and veggies, as my post workout shake is low carb. (Maximuscle Promax and Promax Diet for those familar with the brands, I cant get any Biotest powders in the UK at all as the distributor wont bring them in due to cost, cant self import to the UK as I need a license)

If I were to add say 40g brown rice to my mid-morning meal (currently 75g tuna in spring water and 70g sliced cucumber) and 60g’s to my lunch (Grilled chicken salad, with leaves, peppers, cucumber, onion and tomatoes) That would bring me up much closer to 2000cals (1966kcal) with 235g Protein and 153g carbs.

My typical daily diet is (I eat this without fail every day)

730-Promax Diet Shake with 1% fat or Skimmed milk

1000-75g tuna and 70g cucumber

1245-150g Grilled chicken with a 200g salad (cold) with leaves, peppers, cucumber, onion and tomatoes.

1430 (pre workout)-75g tuna and 70g cucumber

1630-1700 (post workout)-Maximuscle Promax (2 scoops) with water

1900-Steamed Cod Fillet with Salad around the same size as above. Cod is the only thing I havent weighed yet.

2100-Two eggs beaten then ‘scrambled’ (fluffed in the microwave) Perhaps grate some low fat cheese on the eggs for a few more cals? and 15g whole almonds (Worst food of the day!!) Might swap the eggs for Sardines in water. Going to try Sardines and see if I can stomach them first.

Supplements
7am-Maximuscle Thermobol
12-Thermobol
During training-Thermobol
Before bed-ZMA

I have some Flameout and HOT-ROX on order, the HOT-ROX is planned to start w/b 16th Feb as I need to cycle off the Thermobol first, going to have a month clear break when my supply runs out on Saturday.

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‘Low carb’ is typically considered to be less than 50g a day.

With that in mind, if you wanted to go down that route (ie Ketogenic dieting), then i’d definately not be adding in the brown rice, and i’d drop the milk from your morning shakes too.

However, you also look short on the healthy fats side of things. The Flameout will obviously go someway to solving this, but another generic brand of omega 3 fish oil would help. I wouldn’t sweat the almonds either, and i’d bump them up and add at breakkie too to be honest, theyre pretty damn healthy! Anyhow i’m sure the other guys will be able to say a lot more than i know, but thats my 2 cents.

JB

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I managed to get a good deal on the Promax Diet (managed to find 7 mini-tubs in a supermarket reduced to clear at £7 each) in effect £120+ of protein for £50. Probably knock it on the head when I run out of MM.

Moving away from normal Promax when I finish this tub to the Reflex Peptide Fusion Whey, spoke to a guy at a supps company when looking for Metabolic Drive, he recommended that as most similar.

Just a little worried that for a guy of my size i’m not getting enough cals to loose weight properly. 1700 seems pretty low to me. Perhaps having a decent amount of almonds, maybe 20-30g a day would help both for good fats and bumping cals to around the 2000-2100 mark?

Would you add some generic Omega-3 oil aswell as Flameout then?

Again, sorry if this appears a bit newbish, just trying to make sure I get it right.

4

Well as mentioned before this isn’t low carb. It is “Lower carb” not low carb. Under 50g would be considered low carb and would kick off ketosis. Based off your diet it would not be hard to drop your carbs below 50g. Drop the Milk and drop the rice and your pretty much their. You do not need to count green veggies as carbs (except peppers) the dietary fiber found in green veggies nullifies it as a carb.

Now to bump up the fats that is extremely easy. Throw some Extra virgin olive oil in to your morning shake maybe two tbsp. and bam you have 280 cals added right their. Also, I use Macademia nut oil and Avocado oil and just consume a tablespoon or two with a meal/snack another quick 140-280cals. You should bump up your protein intake too, atleast 2g per kg.

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[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
I managed to get a good deal on the Promax Diet (managed to find 7 mini-tubs in a supermarket reduced to clear at £7 each) in effect £120+ of protein for £50. Probably knock it on the head when I run out of MM.

Moving away from normal Promax when I finish this tub to the Reflex Peptide Fusion Whey, spoke to a guy at a supps company when looking for Metabolic Drive, he recommended that as most similar.

Just a little worried that for a guy of my size i’m not getting enough cals to loose weight properly. 1700 seems pretty low to me. Perhaps having a decent amount of almonds, maybe 20-30g a day would help both for good fats and bumping cals to around the 2000-2100 mark?

Would you add some generic Omega-3 oil aswell as Flameout then?

Again, sorry if this appears a bit newbish, just trying to make sure I get it right.
[/quote]

Personally, i just get basic whey concentrate and casein separately from myprotein.co.uk, about £24 for 5lbs, and then just mix them together! Same sort of thing but as cheap as you’ll get really in the UK.

Almonds are a good choice, as would be walnuts. Add some in at breakkie, same with the olive/macadamia oil to bump cals from healthy fats. It can’t hurt to add more omega 3 either, most of us don’t even begin to get enough, i think it was Poliquin before who recommended as far as mega dosing with 30-40g! myprotein is again good for that, as is www.bulkpowders.co.uk

Hope that helps

JB

6

I think you’re crazy spending money on anything by Maximuscle it’s all hype.

You want to buy Reflex “Micellar Casein” as a substitute for Metabolic Drive not peptide fushion.

I would drop the Promax Diet, for a P (casein) + fat shake. Your promax diet has 12g of carbs per “serving”. It’s essentially whey protein - not filling and won’t do much to keep your belly feeling full.

How long have you been on this diet for? Have you had any break from it?

7

I second myprotein.co.uk for UK users.

I also second HOT-ROX for fat loss/appetite control when going as low as 2000kcal per day!

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[quote]plateau wrote:
I think you’re crazy spending money on anything by Maximuscle it’s all hype.

You want to buy Reflex “Micellar Casein” as a substitute for Metabolic Drive not peptide fushion.

I would drop the Promax Diet, for a P (casein) + fat shake. Your promax diet has 12g of carbs per “serving”. It’s essentially whey protein - not filling and won’t do much to keep your belly feeling full.

How long have you been on this diet for? Have you had any break from it?[/quote]
I’m beginning to realise the Maximuscle hype stuff, thats why i’m starting to look better at my different options. MyProtein has been on my horizon for a little while now.

I guess at the start I was a typical newb, saw the Maximuscle catalogue, saw Josh Lewsey in the gym (he occasionally trains at my old uni gym with Margot Wells) and thought “I’ll have me some of that!” However, i’m starting to realise you can get the same or better for less money, live and learn I suppose. It’s a mistake I wont continue to make. However, I have…let me count it…3.6kgs of Promax Diet left! Might see if I can take a couple of the mini-tubs back for a refund and order some more Reflex stuff or get on MyProtein. If I cant, I guess i’ll have to stick with it until its gone, the tight wad in me wont let me bin that much!

The Peptide Fusion is on order, in fact I got the email saying it had dispatched when I got back from the gym.

The lower carbs have been on going for about 5 days. Over the last 6 months i’ve been trying to gradually reduce the carbs down as I was a bread fiend. And at my weight (about 24st/336lb) I had to make the changes gradually, as I didnt know how i’d react from going to a nearly 8000kcals a day (sometimes more) carb based diet.

Apparently I get 32g of carbs a day through my 150g chicken at lunch time. Besides the 12g in Promax Diet thats my biggest carb source. I can cut the milk out no trouble, but the chicken carbs worry me…is it because its ‘packaged’ pre sliced (still proper chicken chunks, not reformed gunk). I’m going to start cooking my own anyway, probably have cook up on sunday.

I’ve cut bread out completely now, dont even miss it. Pasta I dont miss. I’m getting ‘hardcore’ with this now. I’ve lost 80lbs in baby steps, probably another 40-50lb to go. I’m going to start tonight planning my meals for next week. Write out a shopping list and get that stuff. Start weighing out my portions of stuff. I’m probably going to get chastised by my step-dad but give a fuck. He’s the one who eats his body weight in choc’s and beers! I realise hardcore is a ridiculous term, but to the uneducated it will seem so.

I’ll try the EVOO in the shakes. Will it make much difference in shaking them up PWO before I have my shower? I live about 35mins from the gym, so go in straight after work.

When I get the Flameout and HOT-ROX they are staying put to start using them at the same time. I’ll get a generic Omega-3 cap to start with now and then bump it up in a month or so with the Flameout and HOT-ROX. Trying to give my body a little rest from the 6 month supp fest! I’ve nailed the Thermobol usage for the last 2 months, had four months of using it like a retard (not leaving enough time between meals and taking one, eating too soon after taking one) so I doubt they had any effect. Since I worked it out properly (because the directions on the bottle are rubbish) I did notice a difference in the fat I was burning (a pretty consistent 3lbs a week for the last 6-8 weeks) but it’s time for a break

Wow that was a long post!

9

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:

Apparently I get 32g of carbs a day through my 150g chicken at lunch time. Besides the 12g in Promax Diet thats my biggest carb source. I can cut the milk out no trouble, but the chicken carbs worry me…is it because its ‘packaged’ pre sliced (still proper chicken chunks, not reformed gunk). I’m going to start cooking my own anyway, probably have cook up on sunday.

I’ll try the EVOO in the shakes. Will it make much difference in shaking them up PWO before I have my shower? I live about 35mins from the gym, so go in straight after work.

Wow that was a long post!
[/quote]

Long post indeed…I dont know where you are buying your chicken but that is odd. I have seen chicken breast with maybe 5-6g carb per serving due to a marinade, anything higher is odd only other thing I could think of is if it were breaded. Starting to cook your own food on a sunday is exactly the right path to take. I have been doing it for a while now and can cook the weeks worth of food in an hour or so (on the grill).

I would not put the EVOO in a shake immediatly PWO. This will affect the rate in which whey will be assimilated. Do it at a later point in the day when protein does not need to be digested rapidly.

10

Changed the way I have the EVOO whilst I was preparing my meals for tomorrow. Having a tbsp in each cucumber/tuna pot and 2tbsp in the main chicken salad. Didnt fancy adding it to my shake.

The chicken is packaged as just cooked chicken presliced. Finished the last of it for tomorrows lunch salad, i’ll cook up a few breasts of chicken tomorrow night to see me through the rest of the week/Saturday.

Any tips? I was just going to stick it in the oven, but on a grill to let the fat drip away, with a bit of seasoning for variation.

Looking at my protein intake i’m getting my 2g per KG of bodyweight, let alone lean body weight.

11

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
Changed the way I have the EVOO whilst I was preparing my meals for tomorrow. Having a tbsp in each cucumber/tuna pot and 2tbsp in the main chicken salad. Didnt fancy adding it to my shake.

The chicken is packaged as just cooked chicken presliced. Finished the last of it for tomorrows lunch salad, i’ll cook up a few breasts of chicken tomorrow night to see me through the rest of the week/Saturday.

Any tips? I was just going to stick it in the oven, but on a grill to let the fat drip away, with a bit of seasoning for variation.

Looking at my protein intake i’m getting my 2g per KG of bodyweight, let alone lean body weight. [/quote]

Protein intake sounds good, but make sure its balanced out, ie you don’t want protein to become an overly dominant macronutrient in your diet. Get at least like 50% of your calories from non-protein sources, in this case, mainly fats.

George Foreman grills are a good shout, i know i couldn’t live without mine, use it 3-4 times a day! 10mins to cook a chicken breast cant be bad!

The rest all sounds good to me too

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5.266666

13

hexx-???

My ‘menu’ for tomorrow with the changes suggested leave me getting:

1833kcals
213g Protein
90g Fat
43g Carbs-most of these are from green veggies, 10g are from the brocolli alone! 12g only of dubious carbs, from the morning protein shake.

This means im probably 60% protein tomorrow.

Food is

B:Promax Diet with Water, two eggs fluffed in microwave.
Mid M:Half tin of tuna in water, 70g cucumber sliced and 1tbsp evoo
L:150g chicken salad, 10g peppers, 11g red onion, 40g leaves, 2tbsp evoo
Afternoon:Half tin of tuna in water, 70g cucumber sliced and 1tbsp evoo. Normal Promax shake.
Dinner:150g grilled chicken w/brocolli, cauliflower.
Evening 20g almonds

Who knew you could eat that much for 1800kcals!

Supps:3x Thermobol, 1x ZMA, Fish Oil caps

Tomorrow is a non training day, so i’m fairly happy with that.

Would you suggest a few more cals on a training day? If so where to get them from? I saw some suggest that veggie carbs could be discounted as carbs for their fibre content, Would you suggest a few more maybe fruity carbs like an apple and orange? Any other sources?

14

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
hexx-???

My ‘menu’ for tomorrow with the changes suggested leave me getting:

1833kcals
213g Protein
90g Fat
43g Carbs-most of these are from green veggies, 10g are from the brocolli alone! 12g only of dubious carbs, from the morning protein shake.

This means im probably 60% protein tomorrow.

Food is

B:Promax Diet with Water, two eggs fluffed in microwave.
Mid M:Half tin of tuna in water, 70g cucumber sliced and 1tbsp evoo
L:150g chicken salad, 10g peppers, 11g red onion, 40g leaves, 2tbsp evoo
Afternoon:Half tin of tuna in water, 70g cucumber sliced and 1tbsp evoo. Normal Promax shake.
Dinner:150g grilled chicken w/brocolli, cauliflower.
Evening 20g almonds

Who knew you could eat that much for 1800kcals!

Supps:3x Thermobol, 1x ZMA, Fish Oil caps

Tomorrow is a non training day, so i’m fairly happy with that.

Would you suggest a few more cals on a training day? If so where to get them from? I saw some suggest that veggie carbs could be discounted as carbs for their fibre content, Would you suggest a few more maybe fruity carbs like an apple and orange? Any other sources?[/quote]

Sounds good, although 213g protein = 852 cals which is under 50%, not quite 60%, which is good.

I wouldn’t count the carbs from green veggies either personally, theyre almost negligible and mostly fibrous. Remember to count the fish oil as part of your cals also.

Personally, i’d consider switching the EVOO for nuts, as this means you get to eat a bit more! Makes not a lot of difference mind!

Training days wise, i’d bump the cals through peri-workout nutrition. Pop some BCAA’s (20g or so) during a workout and then maybe a scoop of whey and 20g+ of glutamine after. If you look on Thibs Q&A he gives more precise recommendations, i just can’t remember them for sure!

On the whole, definately looking good!

JB

15

A true user specific subject. My buddy Big “Little” John to that motherfucker low carb days is under 200g. Fucker, to me low carb days are well under 50g. Its still weak :wink:

16

With the peri-workout nutrition, does that means during the workout? So as i’m about to go into the gym, have some BCAA’s and a scoop of whey/glutamine mix?

Also with the carbs, would you only ‘count’ the 12g I get from my breakfast protein shake.

I dont mind putting the EVOO in salads/meals, better than choking down more almonds! That 20g handful at night is literally my biggest challenge of the day!

17

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
With the peri-workout nutrition, does that means during the workout? So as i’m about to go into the gym, have some BCAA’s and a scoop of whey/glutamine mix?

Also with the carbs, would you only ‘count’ the 12g I get from my breakfast protein shake.

I dont mind putting the EVOO in salads/meals, better than choking down more almonds! That 20g handful at night is literally my biggest challenge of the day![/quote]

Yeah, when im in a fat loss phase i take some BCAA’s during the workout (usually about half in my warmup and half spread out through the rest), and then at the end take a scoop or 2 of whey and about 20g glutamine.

Yeah, count the carbs in your morning shake. Thats another fallback of Promax diet, high-ish in carbs. Normal plain whey/casein usually only have lyk 3-5g max of carbs per scoop.

Think about trying macadamia nut oil as well, not just EVOO. Also consider cooking with coconut oil, thats good for you too.

JB

18

[quote]jb413 wrote:
sidewalkdances wrote:
With the peri-workout nutrition, does that means during the workout? So as i’m about to go into the gym, have some BCAA’s and a scoop of whey/glutamine mix?

Also with the carbs, would you only ‘count’ the 12g I get from my breakfast protein shake.

I dont mind putting the EVOO in salads/meals, better than choking down more almonds! That 20g handful at night is literally my biggest challenge of the day!

Yeah, when im in a fat loss phase i take some BCAA’s during the workout (usually about half in my warmup and half spread out through the rest), and then at the end take a scoop or 2 of whey and about 20g glutamine.

Yeah, count the carbs in your morning shake. Thats another fallback of Promax diet, high-ish in carbs. Normal plain whey/casein usually only have lyk 3-5g max of carbs per scoop.

Think about trying macadamia nut oil as well, not just EVOO. Also consider cooking with coconut oil, thats good for you too.

JB

[/quote]

Yea agreed though I told the OP this before. YOU DO NOT COUNT GREEN VEGGIES as carbs, count all other carbs though. Fruits are pretty much a no go unless you can fit in some Avocado. If you have room to spare with the 50g say you are at 25-30g for the day you could add half an avocado to a salad that will boost the fat content for the day. Peri-workout means DURING your workout.

19

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
With the peri-workout nutrition, does that means during the workout? So as i’m about to go into the gym, have some BCAA’s and a scoop of whey/glutamine mix?

Also with the carbs, would you only ‘count’ the 12g I get from my breakfast protein shake.

I dont mind putting the EVOO in salads/meals, better than choking down more almonds! That 20g handful at night is literally my biggest challenge of the day![/quote]

Yes to counting the shake, No to counting carbs from fibreous vegs.

You can buy some unbranded reflex stuff at
http://www.sports-nutrition.net/store.php

20

Hey man, bravo on the fat loss so far.
I say keep chugging and you will continue to lose (you haven’t mentioned that you’ve hit a plateau or stalled at all yet). This all takes time… and if you can manage to keep losing weight without going too “hardcore”, you will increase the chances of keeping it off in the long run. In fact, just today, the T-Nation article has some stuff to say about that.

anyways, provided you ARE ready to kick it up a notch, the stuff you’ve written about above seems like a good start. One thing that I’d say is that you can probably have more carbs post-workout (and if that worries you, maybe you could remove them from your breakfast to even things out). Remember, after a workout, all of your muscles are really energy-depleted, as is the rest of your body. You just lifted a bunch of heavy stuff! It’s important to boost your body back up again so that it can begin to recover (i.e. make you stronger).

Also, I’d be interested in reading about your training program. I hope that in addition to your formal weight training, you make time for other sources of physical activity (walking, etc.)… that is huge in my book…

good luck man!
dan