How Many Carbs Are 'Low-Carb'?

Diet and Nutrition
21

Tidy, then my only carbs for the day really come from cherry tomatoes, red peppers and 14g from protein shakes. Probably 25g total carbs per day.

So just to make the Peri-Workout stuff clear in my mind, as its new to me. BCAA’s and water during workout, Whey+Glutamine immediately post workout? Or an extra scoop of Whey and Glutamine during the workout?

Probably going to order some of the Reflex BCAA’s in the next few days.

Apologies if i’m being slow with all the this!

Whilst I typed the above the poster above replied so to address that…

My training program is 3 full body weights sessions per week, 2 HIIT cardio, alternate between 5 rep days (heavier) and 10 rep days:

Sample weeks could be:

Monday: Full body weights program of

Squat 3x10
Dips 3xF-My record is 6-7-5 @bodyweight (255lbs)
Deadlift 2x10
Dumbbell Incline Press-3x10
Inverted Rows (Fat boy pull ups)-3xF
Bent Over Row-3x10
Arnold Press-3x10
Lateral Raises-3x10
Tricep Pulldowns-3x10
EZ-Bar Curls-3x10

Ab Work
Medicine Ball Leg Raises 3x10
Reverse Crunch 3x10
Plank 2x30s (working on getting this higher)

Tues-Cardio

12 min steady run @9.7kph
8x 1 min intervals on rowing machine (45 hard, 15 rest)
4x3 min intervals treadmill (2min @11kph, 1 min 6kph)

Weds: Full Body Weights (Heavier day)

Squat 3x5
Deadlift 2-3 warm up sets, 5 reps @ 5RM, 1 max effort
Dips 3xf
Bench Press 3x5
Lat Pull Down 3x5
Pulley 3x5
Seated shoulder press, flat bench so no back support-3x5
Lateral Raises 3x5
Skullcrushers 3x5
Kneeling Hammer Curls 3x5

Ab Work as above

Thurs-Rest day

Friday: Day 1 weights

Sat-Cardio

Sunday-Rest

Would you recommend perhaps swapping the carbier shake to PWO and have the lower protein one @ breakfast?

Havent been doing all that much extra NEPA, but it is on my list of things to start, in fact something I was going to start tonight by taking the dog out for around 30 mins, he’s pretty old so cant manage much more, but I could drop him off and walk a bit more on my own. Work at a school, so apart from moving from lesson to lesson, not that much activity.

Havent hit any real plateaus, had a 2 week plateau in September, which I trained through, and over Xmas I stayed the same, but wasnt expecting to lose any over Xmas as I went out a few beers Xmas and had some junk on Xmas day. First real indulgances since September.

22

[quote]LiarPantsOnFire wrote:
Hey man, bravo on the fat loss so far.
I say keep chugging and you will continue to lose (you haven’t mentioned that you’ve hit a plateau or stalled at all yet). This all takes time… and if you can manage to keep losing weight without going too “hardcore”, you will increase the chances of keeping it off in the long run. In fact, just today, the T-Nation article has some stuff to say about that.

anyways, provided you ARE ready to kick it up a notch, the stuff you’ve written about above seems like a good start. One thing that I’d say is that you can probably have more carbs post-workout (and if that worries you, maybe you could remove them from your breakfast to even things out). Remember, after a workout, all of your muscles are really energy-depleted, as is the rest of your body. You just lifted a bunch of heavy stuff! It’s important to boost your body back up again so that it can begin to recover (i.e. make you stronger).

Also, I’d be interested in reading about your training program. I hope that in addition to your formal weight training, you make time for other sources of physical activity (walking, etc.)… that is huge in my book…

good luck man!
dan[/quote]

I am pretty sure he wants to be on a ketogenic diet so avoiding most carbs at this juncture would be the best bet for him. This is what the glutamine is for.

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
Tidy, then my only carbs for the day really come from cherry tomatoes, red peppers and 14g from protein shakes. Probably 25g total carbs per day.

So just to make the Peri-Workout stuff clear in my mind, as its new to me. BCAA’s and water during workout, Whey+Glutamine immediately post workout? Or an extra scoop of Whey and Glutamine during the workout?

Probably going to order some of the Reflex BCAA’s in the next few days.

Apologies if i’m being slow with all the this![/quote]

Yes that is correct BCAA and water during the workout (you may want to buy some crystal light to put in their b/c they are bitter). Whey and Glutamine pwo only.

23

Or buy BCAA’s in pill form…again myprotein is good for this, £20 for 270 tabs, not too pricey!

As far as the training routine goes…to me it smacks of trying to do too much. Your in a restricted calorie phase. Keep it more compound i’d say. Read that recent article by Alwyn Cosgrove and strip out some of those exercises. Im no expert on this, but i’d say you’d get better results by skipping at least the lat raises, curls and tricep pulldowns, you’re hitting those muscles through all else you do. Equally, your working your core pretty hard through squats and deads so think about dropping ab work too.

I wouldn’t do interval cardio either personally, on a keto diet that will hurt! I made that mistake before! Read ‘destroying fat’ by thibaudeau, he goes through all of the training side of this in more detail then i can. ‘Refined physique transformation’ is also well worth a read by him.

JB

24

Was thinking about getting the Reflex BCAA’s from affordable supps. £27 for 500. Are the MP ones better?

Just read those article regarding the training.

Perhaps the cardio needs an adjustment to build up more lactate. Perhaps if I run until i’m warm, 4 sets of Tabata sprints on the rower (16 mins) and then 25-30mins of low intensity cardio, around 70% of max HR. I used to row when I was a kid, and it produces a massive lactic response in me, uses so many muscle groups so seems like it will work.

It works out as slightly more cardio than I was doing, so if I split to 12 mins treadmill at a reasonable pace and 12 mins bike at a reasonable pace, then i’ll hit the requisite times.

In regards the lifting, my workout is based around compounds, they get done before anything else, Thibs article “Destroying Fat” says

"Now, I?m not one of those ?you don?t need direct arms work? guys. I do believe that to maximize your arm size you do need at least some direct biceps and triceps work. However, keep in mind that this type of program is used during a fat loss phase.

You?re not going to maximize anything; all you can accomplish is to minimize muscle loss. So in that regard adding a ton of direct upper arm work isn?t necessary. However, you can still add a few sets of curls or triceps work at the end of the chest/back workout."

Thats all i’m doing really, just a few polishing sets to polish off the grunt! I dont mind dropping the lat raises though, not sure they were all that effective for me anyway. But the bi’s and tri’s are worked hard for the compounds first, then polished off at the end.

Again I see your point with ab work, but I read another conflicting article saying that ab work is beneficial as it compliments the work done during compounds. Perhaps if I just stick to doing some stationary stability work, such as planks and side bridges to improve my core and ditch the raises/reverse crunches?

25

I am on a keto diet right now (limited to 50g of carb, not including those from fiberous vegetables, carb loading every 4 days). Not to thread highjack, but is carb loading PWO a good idea? If so how much is ok?

26

[quote]elih8er wrote:
I am on a keto diet right now (limited to 50g of carb, not including those from fiberous vegetables, carb loading every 4 days). Not to thread highjack, but is carb loading PWO a good idea? If so how much is ok? [/quote]

Most definately, means more of the carbs will be channelled to muscles (better nutrient partioning pwo). I dont know how much mind, read refined physique transformation as said above, goes into a lot of detail there.

JB

27

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
Was thinking about getting the Reflex BCAA’s from affordable supps. £27 for 500. Are the MP ones better?

Just read those article regarding the training.

Perhaps the cardio needs an adjustment to build up more lactate. Perhaps if I run until i’m warm, 4 sets of Tabata sprints on the rower (16 mins) and then 25-30mins of low intensity cardio, around 70% of max HR. I used to row when I was a kid, and it produces a massive lactic response in me, uses so many muscle groups so seems like it will work.

It works out as slightly more cardio than I was doing, so if I split to 12 mins treadmill at a reasonable pace and 12 mins bike at a reasonable pace, then i’ll hit the requisite times.

In regards the lifting, my workout is based around compounds, they get done before anything else, Thibs article “Destroying Fat” says

"Now, I?m not one of those ?you don?t need direct arms work? guys. I do believe that to maximize your arm size you do need at least some direct biceps and triceps work. However, keep in mind that this type of program is used during a fat loss phase.

You?re not going to maximize anything; all you can accomplish is to minimize muscle loss. So in that regard adding a ton of direct upper arm work isn?t necessary. However, you can still add a few sets of curls or triceps work at the end of the chest/back workout."

Thats all i’m doing really, just a few polishing sets to polish off the grunt! I dont mind dropping the lat raises though, not sure they were all that effective for me anyway. But the bi’s and tri’s are worked hard for the compounds first, then polished off at the end.

Again I see your point with ab work, but I read another conflicting article saying that ab work is beneficial as it compliments the work done during compounds. Perhaps if I just stick to doing some stationary stability work, such as planks and side bridges to improve my core and ditch the raises/reverse crunches?[/quote]

Reflex BCAA’s are only 500mg compared to 1g tabs at myprotein.co.uk, so myprotein works out a drop cheaper…

Keep the arm work in then by the sounds of it, your shout! But yeh, i’d maybe taper off the ab work slightly. On the whole though looking good now!

JB

28

First thing that strikes me about your training program is that you probably don’t need all the ab work you have.

I’d say that planks should be enough. I highly doubt that your ab muscles are your limiting factor right now, either from a strength perspective or from the perspective of body composition/aesthetic.
just my two cents…
dan

29

[quote]MUthrows94 wrote:

I am pretty sure he wants to be on a ketogenic diet so avoiding most carbs at this juncture would be the best bet for him. This is what the glutamine is for.
[/quote]

I guess what I’m suggesting (although I didn’t use these words exactly) is that it might not be best to put your body in ketosis right now. You are continuing to lose weight steadily as is, while gaining strength.

Why screw with things right now when the fat loss is still relatively easy (as you’ve got plenty to lose). In a little while, when you are leaner yet and the fat loss begins to plateau, that might be the time to throw yourself into ketosis and annihilate your way through the plateau.

… is there need to bring in the BIG GUNS at this stage of the game? (especially if it might have a negative impact in various ways: hinder progress with strength-gaining if not done properly, could potentially be too taxing psychologically, resulting in the OP giving up altogether or cheating too frequently, etc.)

food for thought. i don’t claim to know what’s BEST…
dan

30

I see your point on the not bringing out the ‘big guns’ now. Maybe i’ll bring the carbs back in for now, I cant see a couple of carbless days are going to have hurt me. Just stick to small portions of clean carbs, like small (golf ball sized) baked potato at dinner. Work it out properly.

Like you say, if i’m still losing it, save it for when I stall.

Ab work and Lat Raises are junked for the time being, like you say, can probably save them until i’m ALOT leaner!

I’ll get the MP BCAA’s next week I think, waiting for a bit of cash to come in.

31

[quote]jb413 wrote:
elih8er wrote:
I am on a keto diet right now (limited to 50g of carb, not including those from fiberous vegetables, carb loading every 4 days). Not to thread highjack, but is carb loading PWO a good idea? If so how much is ok?

Most definately, means more of the carbs will be channelled to muscles (better nutrient partioning pwo). I dont know how much mind, read refined physique transformation as said above, goes into a lot of detail there.

JB[/quote]

Really I think the load is better suited for the day before your week starts (usually a sunday or off day) reason being the carb load is to repenish glycogen stores and doing it on a day before you start training for the week would allow for better quality workouts over two days possibly, as opposed to just the one day if you take it pwo.

[quote]LiarPantsOnFire wrote:
MUthrows94 wrote:

I am pretty sure he wants to be on a ketogenic diet so avoiding most carbs at this juncture would be the best bet for him. This is what the glutamine is for.

I guess what I’m suggesting (although I didn’t use these words exactly) is that it might not be best to put your body in ketosis right now. You are continuing to lose weight steadily as is, while gaining strength.

Why screw with things right now when the fat loss is still relatively easy (as you’ve got plenty to lose). In a little while, when you are leaner yet and the fat loss begins to plateau, that might be the time to throw yourself into ketosis and annihilate your way through the plateau.

… is there need to bring in the BIG GUNS at this stage of the game? (especially if it might have a negative impact in various ways: hinder progress with strength-gaining if not done properly, could potentially be too taxing psychologically, resulting in the OP giving up altogether or cheating too frequently, etc.)

food for thought. i don’t claim to know what’s BEST…
dan

[/quote]

Yea I see what you mean but I think he wanted to ADD carbs to his daily intake (I think it was rice), so he was pretty much in ketosis b4 I am not sure though have to read the first post…

Edit: yea I am pretty sure he was already in ketosis he was counting carbs from green veggies before as opposed to now.

32

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
I see your point on the not bringing out the ‘big guns’ now. Maybe i’ll bring the carbs back in for now, I cant see a couple of carbless days are going to have hurt me. Just stick to small portions of clean carbs, like small (golf ball sized) baked potato at dinner. Work it out properly.

Like you say, if i’m still losing it, save it for when I stall.

Ab work and Lat Raises are junked for the time being, like you say, can probably save them until i’m ALOT leaner!

I’ll get the MP BCAA’s next week I think, waiting for a bit of cash to come in.[/quote]

Probably good idea, ultimately you have to do what works best for you and “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” but atleast you have some ideas further down the road. Personally I would add the carbs in the morning just my .02c’s

33

Probably just out of ketosis, as I was getting some carbs from milk. But no more than 100g a day including ADDING brown rice.

Going to try and add some carbs back in and see if I continue to lose weight with it. When I have a bit more time tonight I can add everything back up and work out what carbs i’ve been having over the last two weeks.