PWO Low Carb Nutrition

Diet and Nutrition
1

I’m low carb at all times except PWO and a piece of fruit at breakfast… having good results.

I’m wondering what’s the proper amount of carbs and protein you should be taking in PWO. “calories” per se. How much can your system handle; what’s optimal.

My PWO consists of 15g of BCAA, then shower & dress (15 minutes for BCAA), then about 30g of carbs and 48g of protein, no fat. I add in glutamine and creatine and some powdered BCAA as well.

Is 48g too much protein for PWO? I eat a low carb meal about 1.5 to 2 hours later.

I’m cutting. (good results so far, but seeking “optimal”)

2

If your getting good results with 48g you could try upping it to 60 or 70 and see if your results are any better, if not drop back down to 48.

3

If you’re low carb and low fat for very long you will begin using protein for energy. I’ll let you determine whether that’s good or bad.

4

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
If you’re low carb and low fat for very long you will begin using protein for energy. I’ll let you determine whether that’s good or bad.[/quote]

Cardiologists grimace at my diet, it’s hardly low fat. This is only my PWO nutrition.

And if 48g sounds weird, it’s just cause that’s 2 scoops of ON protein.

5

Have you read Thibs Q&A thread?

He often times has clients on low-carb of less than 50gs of carbs a day.

What is your body fat? If it is over 14% he would have you on less than 50gs of carbs.

PWO you would take your BCAAs, a serving of glutamine for the glycogen restoration and whey protein.

If you have a lower BF and are just cutting you might want to try a citrus fruit portion such as orange or pineapple with your PWO meal.

.

6

[quote]msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If you’re low carb and low fat for very long you will begin using protein for energy. I’ll let you determine whether that’s good or bad.

Cardiologists grimace at my diet, it’s hardly low fat. This is only my PWO nutrition.

And if 48g sounds weird, it’s just cause that’s 2 scoops of ON protein.
[/quote]

That’s not too much protein, but why no fat then? I"ve been fat adapted for 2 years and I do get some carbs PWO, but my subsequent meals are loaded with calories including plenty of fat.

7

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If you’re low carb and low fat for very long you will begin using protein for energy. I’ll let you determine whether that’s good or bad.

Cardiologists grimace at my diet, it’s hardly low fat. This is only my PWO nutrition.

And if 48g sounds weird, it’s just cause that’s 2 scoops of ON protein.

That’s not too much protein, but why no fat then? I"ve been fat adapted for 2 years and I do get some carbs PWO, but my subsequent meals are loaded with calories including plenty of fat.[/quote]

I’ve always adhered to the no fat/fiber PWO “rule”. (slowly absorption). Is this wrong now? For low carbers?

8

[quote]msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If you’re low carb and low fat for very long you will begin using protein for energy. I’ll let you determine whether that’s good or bad.

Cardiologists grimace at my diet, it’s hardly low fat. This is only my PWO nutrition.

And if 48g sounds weird, it’s just cause that’s 2 scoops of ON protein.

That’s not too much protein, but why no fat then? I"ve been fat adapted for 2 years and I do get some carbs PWO, but my subsequent meals are loaded with calories including plenty of fat.

I’ve always adhered to the no fat/fiber PWO “rule”. (slowly absorption). Is this wrong now? For low carbers?
[/quote]

As far as I’m concerned the very calorie dense liquid shake I drink before during and after training takes care of that. An hour or so after training it’s back to solid food. Also I do not believe that fat or even fiber, at least soluble fiber, in non excessive amounts reduces absorption.

Especially if you’re fat adapted which you should be if you’ve been eating high fat/low carb for any length of time.

I put olive oil and benefiber in my shakes. I assume from what you’ve said that low carb also means high fat and fat adaptation?

9

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If you’re low carb and low fat for very long you will begin using protein for energy. I’ll let you determine whether that’s good or bad.

Cardiologists grimace at my diet, it’s hardly low fat. This is only my PWO nutrition.

And if 48g sounds weird, it’s just cause that’s 2 scoops of ON protein.

That’s not too much protein, but why no fat then? I"ve been fat adapted for 2 years and I do get some carbs PWO, but my subsequent meals are loaded with calories including plenty of fat.

I’ve always adhered to the no fat/fiber PWO “rule”. (slowly absorption). Is this wrong now? For low carbers?

As far as I’m concerned the very calorie dense liquid shake I drink before during and after training takes care of that. An hour or so after training it’s back to solid food. Also I do not believe that fat or even fiber, at least soluble fiber, in non excessive amounts reduces absorption.

Especially if you’re fat adapted which you should be if you’ve been eating high fat/low carb for any length of time.

I put olive oil and benefiber in my shakes. I assume from what you’ve said that low carb also means high fat and fat adaptation? [/quote]

they say you shouldn’t take fiber supplements too close either before or after you take other supplements or medication as it is possible for the medication or supplements to be absorbed into the fiber supplement and excreted rather than absorbed by the body and put to use.

10

I remember you had questions about the AD.

If you have remained on the AD and are now fat adapted you can remain low carb even in your PWO meal so as not to kick yourself out of ketosis. Although if you are fat adapted one meal isn’t likely to kick you out of ketosis.

for the restoration of glycogen after your workout use glutamine.

It really is that simple

11

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

I remember you had questions about the AD.

If you have remained on the AD and are now fat adapted you can remain low carb even in your PWO meal so as not to kick yourself out of ketosis. Although if you are fat adapted one meal isn’t likely to kick you out of ketosis.

for the restoration of glycogen after your workout use glutamine.

It really is that simple

[/quote]

Why is glutamine more preferred for glycogen restoration than straight carbs? Like, 15g glutamine vs 15g carbs. Why take glutamine instead? I forget the reasoning behind it.

I have a tub of glutamine sitting in the fridge…

12

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

I remember you had questions about the AD.

If you have remained on the AD and are now fat adapted you can remain low carb even in your PWO meal so as not to kick yourself out of ketosis. Although if you are fat adapted one meal isn’t likely to kick you out of ketosis.

for the restoration of glycogen after your workout use glutamine.

It really is that simple

Why is glutamine more preferred for glycogen restoration than straight carbs? Like, 15g glutamine vs 15g carbs. Why take glutamine instead? I forget the reasoning behind it.

I have a tub of glutamine sitting in the fridge…[/quote]

bc when you are restricting your carbs, it can be converted to glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis

13

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

I remember you had questions about the AD.

If you have remained on the AD and are now fat adapted you can remain low carb even in your PWO meal so as not to kick yourself out of ketosis. Although if you are fat adapted one meal isn’t likely to kick you out of ketosis.

for the restoration of glycogen after your workout use glutamine.

It really is that simple

Why is glutamine more preferred for glycogen restoration than straight carbs? Like, 15g glutamine vs 15g carbs. Why take glutamine instead? I forget the reasoning behind it.

I have a tub of glutamine sitting in the fridge…[/quote]

only to keep his carbs low if he is on a carb restricted diet.

14

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If you’re low carb and low fat for very long you will begin using protein for energy. I’ll let you determine whether that’s good or bad.

Cardiologists grimace at my diet, it’s hardly low fat. This is only my PWO nutrition.

And if 48g sounds weird, it’s just cause that’s 2 scoops of ON protein.

That’s not too much protein, but why no fat then? I"ve been fat adapted for 2 years and I do get some carbs PWO, but my subsequent meals are loaded with calories including plenty of fat.

I’ve always adhered to the no fat/fiber PWO “rule”. (slowly absorption). Is this wrong now? For low carbers?

As far as I’m concerned the very calorie dense liquid shake I drink before during and after training takes care of that. An hour or so after training it’s back to solid food. Also I do not believe that fat or even fiber, at least soluble fiber, in non excessive amounts reduces absorption.

Especially if you’re fat adapted which you should be if you’ve been eating high fat/low carb for any length of time.

I put olive oil and benefiber in my shakes. I assume from what you’ve said that low carb also means high fat and fat adaptation?

they say you shouldn’t take fiber supplements too close either before or after you take other supplements or medication as it is possible for the medication or supplements to be absorbed into the fiber supplement and excreted rather than absorbed by the body and put to use.

[/quote]

Quite so for something like psyllium husk that thickens and absorbs, but benefiber doesn’t do that.

15

I’m doing something similar and am getting just about “optimal” results. My PWO shake doesn’t have carbs but I include about 12g of glutamine so it makes up for it. In my meal 1-2 hrs after I might add some brown rice, but nothing crazy. I use 1.5 scoops of whey. Anything more just isn’t economical to me.

16

Trib, do you “carb up” ever? Or are you 100% low carb except for the inevitable cheat?

I am low carb except cheats, and they’re usually unavoidable, but about once a week. I never intentionally carb up. I get maybe 30g of carbs on non training days, and about 50 on training days.

I guess I will try out the glutamine/whey approach for PWO nutrition. A fiber supplement isn’t necessary, I feel I get enough through whole foods. I’m not sure what to add to the PWO shake though, I’m not in need of extra fats, considering my whole foods diet. But I see your logic… Would it be ok (ideal) to add fat to PWO if I’m fat adapted? I’m sure it couldn’t hurt technically, but if it’s not needed…

Is 15g of glutamine and 48g of whey “enough” for PWO nutrition? Too much at one time?

I may remove carbs from PWO, and keep fat and fiber out of it. I’m just looking for optimal here to curb catabolism as rapidly as possible.

17

[quote]Serd wrote:

bc when you are restricting your carbs, it can be converted to glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis
[/quote]

I understand that it can, but that was not what I asked. I asked WHY it is preferred over straight carbs since those can ALSO be converted to glucose (can’t they?).

Is it because of the lower insulin response of glutamine?

18

[quote]nycsoccax wrote:
I’m doing something similar and am getting just about “optimal” results. My PWO shake doesn’t have carbs but I include about 12g of glutamine so it makes up for it. In my meal 1-2 hrs after I might add some brown rice, but nothing crazy. I use 1.5 scoops of whey. Anything more just isn’t economical to me.[/quote]

Didn’t I recently read in another thread that you only weigh 165 pounds?

19

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
nycsoccax wrote:
I’m doing something similar and am getting just about “optimal” results. My PWO shake doesn’t have carbs but I include about 12g of glutamine so it makes up for it. In my meal 1-2 hrs after I might add some brown rice, but nothing crazy. I use 1.5 scoops of whey. Anything more just isn’t economical to me.

Didn’t I recently read in another thread that you only weigh 165 pounds?[/quote]

Economical as in money wise. And yeah, I really don’t want to be a fat meathead. There are PLENTY of people on these forums that are 5’10 and 180 lbs, or 6’2 and 200lbs. Make fun of them, b/c it’s the SAME exact thing, and i’d say being 6’2 and only 200lbs is worse in terms of ratios. Jesus christ, relax with the pointless comments.

20

[quote]msd0060 wrote:
Trib, do you “carb up” ever? Or are you 100% low carb except for the inevitable cheat?

I am low carb except cheats, and they’re usually unavoidable, but about once a week. I never intentionally carb up. I get maybe 30g of carbs on non training days, and about 50 on training days.

I guess I will try out the glutamine/whey approach for PWO nutrition. A fiber supplement isn’t necessary, I feel I get enough through whole foods. I’m not sure what to add to the PWO shake though, I’m not in need of extra fats, considering my whole foods diet. But I see your logic… Would it be ok (ideal) to add fat to PWO if I’m fat adapted? I’m sure it couldn’t hurt technically, but if it’s not needed…

Is 15g of glutamine and 48g of whey “enough” for PWO nutrition? Too much at one time?

I may remove carbs from PWO, and keep fat and fiber out of it. I’m just looking for optimal here to curb catabolism as rapidly as possible.[/quote]

Yo man, I wouldn’t add any fats to PWO. It should really only consist of protein and/or carbs. If you want, add fat to before you goto bed to slow the digestion of whatever protein you’re consuming (hopefully cottage cheese or something casein)