Hey everyone, I have a quick question. I will be doing low carb to drop some bf. I was reading through CT destroy fat and redefined and saw where he listed to do the bcaa etc drink. I also read through his forum and saw where he was giving advice to someone close to my stats to have a total of about 60 peri carbs. So I am kind of confused of which to do?
A little more about me and what I am doing:
Weight: 245
bf: around 27%
I am a beginner of course
I am doing Bill Starr 5x5 (Mon. Wed. Fri.) to get strength up
Want to get bf down so I can add lean mass
I think with the advent of all the information regarding the benefit of carbs in the peri-workout window, this should be the LAST place you drop carbs. I would say that between 50-75 grams would be good, then you could low carb it the rest of the day. Peri-workout carbs are going to help you retain as much muscle mass as possible while eating less than maintenance calories. Hope this helps.
Actually, as a beginner carrying a lot of bodyfat you’re going to drop mostly fat if you’re in a caloric deficit. If you are getting enough protein (at least 1g/lb of LBM) you will retain most of your muscle, and might even gain a bit just starting out by lifting heavy. If you feel low carb/keto is the best way to go and your body response is maximized then avoid the PWO carbs and stick to protein.
I actually have to agree with Phatkins. I’m a person who puts on fat very easily. I use to have somewhere between 40-70 g carbs post workout before.
Since October, I’ve done something inspired by Waylanderxx… like:
1 hr prior - 40-50 g protein + 60 g waxy maize / corn starch
30 min prior - 25 g protein + 30 g waxy maize / corn starch
During workout - 25 g protien + 30 g waxy maize / corn starch
~30-45 after - 60-80 g protein
By limiting carbs after the workout, I’ve actually had wild successful in keeping fat at bay, and it seems to make a noticable difference with my body as well.
[quote]SSC wrote:
I actually have to agree with Phatkins. I’m a person who puts on fat very easily. I use to have somewhere between 40-70 g carbs post workout before.
Since October, I’ve done something inspired by Waylanderxx… like:
1 hr prior - 40-50 g protein + 60 g waxy maize / corn starch
30 min prior - 25 g protein + 30 g waxy maize / corn starch
During workout - 25 g protien + 30 g waxy maize / corn starch
~30-45 after - 60-80 g protein
By limiting carbs after the workout, I’ve actually had wild successful in keeping fat at bay, and it seems to make a noticable difference with my body as well.[/quote]
I would agree with this. Carbs pre and during workout are more beneficial, in my opinion, than post. I still do take a waxy maize/malto/hydro whey post along with a similar shake pre, but only because I can use the extra calories. This is good advice.
Very interested in this thread. My BF is not as high but I recently dropped 50 pounds on a low carb diet and have been scared to reintroduce them to my peri workout protocol. It sounds like the consensus is that carba before and during a workout are safe. What do people think about using Gatorade (half before and half during)? Or should I be looking at something more substantial like bananas or bread? Any help would be great. Want to start putting on some muscle but do not want to return to 30% bf. For reference I am 6’4" and 215 down from 300 at my heaviest. Thanks
I tried that waxy maize/Waylanderxx… thing. Unfortunately it was like krytonite for my colon. Waxy Maize to my long and short intestine is like gama rays to David/Bruce Banner. My coworkers, family, innocent bystanders didn’t like my innards when they are angry. COLON SMASH!
It’s too bad. It sounded so promising. Maybe I’ll try it again with pixy stix.
I think that the answer largely depends on how you structure the rest of your diet.
I got down to very low levels of body fat in about 6 weeks using a carb cycling approach.
At first I would have: 3 low carb days/ 2 medium carb days / 2 high carb days
With this first approach I kept PWO and breakfast carbs during my medium and high days.
With a 4 day a week split I was having PWO carbs every time I trained.
After I stalled out with this I went to: 4 low carb/ 2 medium / 1 re-feed
Here I was training on some of my low carb days and felt that this was necessary in order to deplete my glycogen stores enough for supercompensation to occur during my re-feeds.
It looks like different methods work for different people, in my case BOTH were useful.
I would say that your best bet is to stick consistently to one approach, wait to hit a stalling point and then change things up.
[quote]DJS wrote:
Unfortunately it was like krytonite for my colon. Waxy Maize to my long and short intestine is like gama rays to David/Bruce Banner. My coworkers, family, innocent bystanders didn’t like my innards when they are angry. COLON SMASH!
[/quote]
This doesn’t seems to be that uncommon with WM based on what I’ve read on other forums.
That and there’s a lot of misinformation floating around on WM.
I recommend doing a Google search for Will Brink’s article for the real deal on it.
[quote]SSC wrote:
I actually have to agree with Phatkins. I’m a person who puts on fat very easily. I use to have somewhere between 40-70 g carbs post workout before.
Since October, I’ve done something inspired by Waylanderxx… like:
1 hr prior - 40-50 g protein + 60 g waxy maize / corn starch
30 min prior - 25 g protein + 30 g waxy maize / corn starch
During workout - 25 g protien + 30 g waxy maize / corn starch
~30-45 after - 60-80 g protein
By limiting carbs after the workout, I’ve actually had wild successful in keeping fat at bay, and it seems to make a noticable difference with my body as well.[/quote]
I would agree with this. Carbs pre and during workout are more beneficial, in my opinion, than post. I still do take a waxy maize/malto/hydro whey post along with a similar shake pre, but only because I can use the extra calories. This is good advice. [/quote]
Was curious about waxy maize. Where do you guys get it? Looking around I see a lot of unflavored varieties, do you add something for taste?
[quote]DJS wrote:
Unfortunately it was like krytonite for my colon. Waxy Maize to my long and short intestine is like gama rays to David/Bruce Banner. My coworkers, family, innocent bystanders didn’t like my innards when they are angry. COLON SMASH!
[/quote]
This doesn’t seems to be that uncommon with WM based on what I’ve read on other forums.
That and there’s a lot of misinformation floating around on WM.
I recommend doing a Google search for Will Brink’s article for the real deal on it.[/quote]
Thanks Chris. I have read that article since stopping my waxy maise gasathon. Too bad I didn’t read it first. Now i just use bananas for pre-peri workout carbs.
If you’re trying to cut carbs to the bone, you could try doing your workout protein-only. There’s a good chance it may leave you feeling like ass, though, in which case having carbs beforehand is an excellent idea. It may not take that many carbs if your entire goal is to stabilize your blood sugar.
I personally don’t like the idea of just gatorade (or a banana, or milk), as workout carbs, since they’re going to be a little heavy or fructose or galactose, which are metabolized by the liver. I’d want to some dextrose, waxy maize starch, surge workout fuel, or white bread into the mix, which would provide more glucose, which is usable by muscles immediately. This is not based on any particular knowledge, just a hunch.
Thanks guys for the help. I think I will go with carbs for peri then low carb the rest of the time and see where that gets me.
Also while doing the Bill Starr 5x5 Mon. Wed. Fri. could I do the lactic acid training on Tues. and Thurs. keeping Sat. and Sun. completly off? Or with this be too much?
Thanks guys for the help. I think I will go with carbs for peri then low carb the rest of the time and see where that gets me.
Also while doing the Bill Starr 5x5 Mon. Wed. Fri. could I do the lactic acid training on Tues. and Thurs. keeping Sat. and Sun. completly off? Or with this be too much?
[quote]mletten wrote:
Hmm. What kinds of pre/intra workout carbs have people had success with? I’m leaning towards bananas and gatorade right now.[/quote]
The Anaconda Protocol has been very popular, although as a beginner it may be overkill for your needs.
[quote]mletten wrote:
Hmm. What kinds of pre/intra workout carbs have people had success with? I’m leaning towards bananas and gatorade right now.[/quote]
The Anaconda Protocol has been very popular, although as a beginner it may be overkill for your needs.
[/quote]
Yeah, you may not be willing to jump into it yet, but I’ve been using ^ this protocol to maintain my muscle while on a contest (pretty strict) diet.
I have been following the Anabolic Diet (low carb, med pro, high fat) for six weeks now. At first I was taking 50g carbs total before, during, and after training. I did that for a two weeks and then decided to cut those extra carbs and see what happened.
I did not notice any difference. My muscle has be retained (by just simply measuring with a tape and maintaining/increasing strength) with just using whey protein after and some casein/whey mix about 1-1.5 hours pre.
My goal is fat loss while maintaining muscle, so I am accomplishing that without the carbs. However, I only take in about 20g net carbs a day, and I have been doing it for 6 weeks, so I am more “fat adapted” than a person who hasnt spent some time (10-14 days) already low carb and my body is used to not having carbs readily available for energy.
In doing this diet, most of us have found that energy in the gym is better than before, when we used carbs peri workout. In fact, now if I try to train after having any carbs, I simply dont have energy as I do when I am only eating pro and fats.
Point being, it seems from my personal experience and from chatting with others on the same diet, that muscle can be maintained while in a caloric deficit without carbs. However, proper protein intake is required and heavy lifting is in order.
[quote]smithers584 wrote:
In doing this diet, most of us have found that energy in the gym is better than before, when we used carbs peri workout. In fact, now if I try to train after having any carbs, I simply dont have energy as I do when I am only eating pro and fats.[/quote]
No doubt that the Anabolic Diet works for some, but I don’t think you’re being honest when you claim that it works better for most to not have peri-workout carbs.
I’ll argue that most people perform better in the gym with carbs peri-workout.
