Matsa, just for you:
Impressively explosive for a big guy. I think I am drawn to explosive training styles because of my body makeup. I was a Jumper in athletics and a Sweeper in football, both need fast leg movement, so when I started going to the gym, I would avoid super slow negatives like the plague, and would refuse to go above 8 reps. I have learned now that I need to do my negatives if I want to grow, and I need to keep my conditioning at a certain level, else I become too huffy puffy: and so I must train outside of my 3-7 rep range.
And yeah cool, I just wanted to verify a few things so there was no confusion.
I am liking this thread because there are so many threads concerning multiply lifters, but not many about raw. Either that or just record updates and questions about where there are decent gyms in America, haha.
So I take it that we’re ignoring the fact that Weightlifting is an olympic sport wherein high level trainees live a lifestyle specifically designed around sport performance, wherein high frequency training is feasible as recovery is carefully planned out while high level powerlifters still tend to have jobs and lifestyles that are NOT based around the sport?
It’s really not comparable. Top level weightlifters literally live training. Top level powerlifters typically cannot do this, even with sponsorship. Recovery is different when your life is based around training vs when its not.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
So I take it that we’re ignoring the fact that Weightlifting is an olympic sport wherein high level trainees live a lifestyle specifically designed around sport performance, wherein high frequency training is feasible as recovery is carefully planned out while high level powerlifters still tend to have jobs and lifestyles that are NOT based around the sport?
It’s really not comparable. Top level weightlifters literally live training. Top level powerlifters typically cannot do this, even with sponsorship. Recovery is different when your life is based around training vs when its not.[/quote]
Thats a cop out. I work 40hrs. + 3hrs. of personal training, help raise 3 kids, and I train 6-7 days a week. I perform one classic lift every day, and either squat or deadlift every session. Granted I’m no where near world class, but these training and competing discussions are not “theoretical” to me. I actually train and compete. In fact I have a gym meet tomorrow and a raw APA meet next week.
You train 6-7 days a week, I take it one time per day? Or do you train 2 a days? And are you claiming that you could not have even BETTER recovey with more time/a lifestle dedicated to training?
I’m saying you cannot simply attempt to directly compare one with the other. There are too many variables at play. Make them both Olympic sports, and then see if powerlifting training becomes different.
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
What the hell is the point of this thread?[/quote]
OP just took some cute class for a certification of some sort and wanted to drop a knowledge bomb on us with his new learnings…
Er, nupe. You simply don’t discuss these kinds of things so I thought I would drop a starter.
What is the point in anything? I am sorry I did not have more of the same information to repeat to you all. I will come out and say not a single person in this thread will take up Bulgarian squat training, but most of the people will still be interested in talking about it.
In other news, I agree with the Pwnisher. Because Powerlifting is mostly recreational, and sponsorship is quite acute, few people have reason to train like a Weightlifter. If a Powerlifter works AT a gym, or something similar to that, then he might have the opportunity to train squats 6 days a week, 2 a day. The culture doesn’t bend that way - an example is most Powerlifting clubs in AUS (I don’t know about America) are only open from 5pm-10pm, 4-5 days a week, because the scene is so small that coaches can’t be employed full time, and so only coach on the side, witha full time job as well.
From my own experience and observing many people over the years, the really high frequency stuff just isn’t optimal for the vast majority of natural powerlifters with “average” genetics. I don’t rule out that it might work for some if they plan the loading very carefully, but for most it just doesn’t seem to be the best way to train. Of course the exception might be the complete beginner who squats 3x a week on Starting Strength while eating enough to gain 20-40 lbs. over the course of 6 months or so.
For me, it’s just too much for my joints no matter how well I plan the loading and how good my technique is. I don’t get good results and my body feels like crap all the time with a high frequency schedule, so it’s not something I will pursue.
End this thread. Seriously.
[quote]forevernade wrote:
I will come out and say not a single person in this thread will take up Bulgarian squat training, but most of the people will still be interested in talking about it.[/quote]
Er, nupe. If I am going to talk about, ask about, play with, fondle, the idea of squatting every day, or dare I say, “High Frequency Training”(HFT), I think there is someone here that has discussed this before. Perhaps written articles. Perhaps named Waterbury. But if people want to learn Bulgarian and discuss it, then more power to them.
Waterbury’s articles cover high frequency training in the context of fat loss and or muscle growth, not pure strength gains. In fact he thinks strength training and HFT do not mix - “maximal strength training and HFT don’t mix… Bottom line: HFT will not boost your maximal strength.”
[quote]SRS2000 wrote:
From my own experience and observing many people over the years, the really high frequency stuff just isn’t optimal for the vast majority of natural powerlifters with “average” genetics. I don’t rule out that it might work for some if they plan the loading very carefully, but for most it just doesn’t seem to be the best way to train. Of course the exception might be the complete beginner who squats 3x a week on Starting Strength while eating enough to gain 20-40 lbs. over the course of 6 months or so.
For me, it’s just too much for my joints no matter how well I plan the loading and how good my technique is. I don’t get good results and my body feels like crap all the time with a high frequency schedule, so it’s not something I will pursue.[/quote]
I’m the same way. I began regressing with my lifts with too much frequency. BUT I think that’s just it. I don’t do high frequency therefore my work capacity wasn’t optimal for it. I think people have to understand that a lot of Weightlifters having been lifting on intense schedules for years to the point where they have many years of work capacity built up. If you take a person off the average powerlifting schedule to do HFT and they probably would suck too because it’s the equivelent of asking an average 5ker to all of sudden enter the new york marathon. I bet over time a powerlifter could handle that work load and make progress.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
End this thread. Seriously.[/quote]
Why? This is an good discussion.
I know high frequency works for me. I trained in an Weightlifting club gym for 9 months, and I squat 4 times a week. That isn’t 6 dawys a week like Bulgarian, but my squat was rising week to week when I trained there. Front squat, I was gaining 5kg every 2 weeks, Back squat I was gaining 2.5kg every 2 weeks about 6-7 weeks in. They alternated front squats and back squats 1:1.
The first month was deadly on my legs, considering I was cleaning and jerking, and learning how to snatch. So much pain, I would waddle a couple of days a week. My bench stalled whilst I was training like this, but I am presuming that was because I was jerking and snatching so much my shoulders were getting beaten to smithereens.
In retrospect, I don’t think my body liked such high frequency on my upper body. Only my lower body responded well. I seem to be prone to elbow tendinitis, even just benching twice a week is enough to send me back to my reoccurring elbow pain.
EDIT: Something else people might want to discuss is training sustainability. It seems a lot of weightlifters have a window of 10 years before they peak and then drop out of sight. Powerlifters are training 15-20 years long and keep on improving. Does this mean less training frequency leads to better sustainability?
[quote]Crow wrote:
I also question MisterMagoo’s training and more importantly competition lifting experience. I have competed numerous times in OL, PL, and strongman for the last 10years. I know the difference between the training methods and how they feel.[/quote]
^^^^^
THIS
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
Guess I am just lazy.
Or stubborn.
I’m gonna go with stubborn.
Why is this an argument? If squatting heavy once a week is leading to gains and improvement, keep it up. If its not, up the volume.
[/quote]
what is your problem. I have been lifting for 27 years, competed at the state and regional level in PL, throwing, and HG. I am not having a problem with the discussion going on in this thread, in fact, I am learning some stuff and it is intellectually stimulating.
Very good discussion, please continue.
I will add that I seem to respond to HFT when I am healthy enough to do it. Whenever I have increased training volume and frequency, I have exploded. But I cannot sustain it. 2-6 weeks, and I start getting injured, which leads me to train less frequently.
I currently and just lifting 2x a week, following the 5/3/1 protocol, and upping my conditioning(prowler sprinting) it was working, but i tore a calf muscle the other day, now not so much.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
End this thread. Seriously.[/quote]
Why? This is an good discussion.[/quote]
really! I have never understood why people who don’t like a thread will take the time to jump in a post how worthless it is. trust me, I find the vast majority of the threads on this site are pretty worthless(to me), I don’t participate in them.
High frequency for powerlifting is the shit.
There was actually done a study on this subject in my country recently, comparing 3 to 6 days a week, using the exact same volume for both groups. A squat-, bench-, and deadlift-variaton.
The difference was huge.
[quote]ev1bl wrote:
High frequency for powerlifting is the shit.
There was actually done a study on this subject in my country recently, comparing 3 to 6 days a week, using the exact same volume for both groups. A squat-, bench-, and deadlift-variaton.
The difference was huge.[/quote]
Why didn’t I hear about this? You know who conducted the study?
Also, higher frequency usually means increased volume as well, especially when you’re looking at PL v WL. Keeping total volume the same but performing twice as many workouts (essentially cutting your workouts in half, but doing more of them) isn’t the same as squatting 6-10 times a week.
IMO, genetics and work capacity decide the amount of volume you can tolerate. Weightlifters, especially in the eastern block and china, are hand picked around age 8 due to levers and strength potential (genetics) and put through rigorous high volume, high frequency training for decades (building work capacity) before peaking. The overwhelming majority of those kids get nowhere near the olympics or the kind of numbers seen there. Tons of injuries, burnt out from training etc. If you don’t have the make-up for it, you’re not gonna succeed with that method.
Powerlifters on the other hand usually don’t start the process until years later and don’t have the same training structure because the sport is so much smaller, yet the strongest powerlifters definitely have bigger squats and deads than the strongest weightlifters.
Meh, I tend to think the methods have developed in the directions they have for a reason. Trial and error has found the respective methods the most effective at accomplishing their goals. And yes, I know that’s not very adventurous or paradigm breaking of me, but I still think it’s true.