HBO's True Detective

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I ventured out of PWI specifically to find out whether people were talking about True Detective. I’m not a big TV guy, but of the series I’ve seen and liked, it’s already taken the undisputed top spot.

I think tomorrow night’s episode will put the “Marty/Rust is the killer” theories in the ground (though I’ve suspected Marty from time to time), and I think we’ll finally have an unambiguous idea as to where the story is actually going.

Even more than the narrative-plot and emotional resolutions, I’m looking forward to seeing where Rust ends up philosophically. He’s been as much a hypocrite as Marty in many ways–he talks a big atheist, anti-natalist, existential-nihilist, everybody-is-nobody game, but just about everything he does is in service of a strict, obvious morality. (Why, for example, put the kid in the bathtub during that balls-out single shot raid scene, if that kid is nobody? Why did Ledoux deserve to die, if he, too, was nobody?) Say Rust dies in the final conflict, doesn’t that mean Marty’s idea about community and the common good win out, in the end?[/quote]

I think the reason Rust puts kids in the bathtub or looks down on Marty for cheating on his wife has nothing to do with religion. Rust is a “true detective” or true cop. His sense of right and wrong is what drives him. Athiesist tend to value life more as they see it as you get one shot. Neumerous times in the show it points out organized religion is a sham and can easily lead sheep to slaughter. Hence how the show will most likely end up.
Remember Tutle was the conected to the Governor somehow and wanted a task force to sweep away the murders. Also the original captain is not there anymore but the white haired prick that reemed Rust is still ranked above LeRoy(the new cap) Someohow this turd shows up everytime he rubs up on something in the case. Im pretty sure its a conspiracy with Tutle, some high ranking cops, and maybe the governor. I dont think the gardner is the yellow king thats pretty lame, at best hes a underling. Once the show is over it will show Rust as a hero of non religiouse orgins uncovering a hypocracy of ultra christian child molesting murderers in high level positions.[/quote]

Rust’s disdain for Marty fucking things up has more to do with that part of Rusts life being taken away from him. It’s pretty obvious the loss of his daughter is a huge reason for this. It’s evident with the dinner scene where he gets so nervous he gets drunk before going but then settles in and gets comfortable and enjoys himself. Also I think it has more to do with Rust’s nihilistic mindset than atheism. Rust isn’t a character driven by right or wrong at all and I don’t even acknowledges it truly as a nihilist. He simply acknowledges the wrong that is human consciousness, that we are capable of terrible things, nihilist don’t see right or wrong in a black and white manner. He even considers himself a bad man and all people as bad in one way or another. (except for kids, who are more or less innocent which may also drive him) you see nihilism sort of laughs at people with moral constraints and everyone is a moral hypocrite in the show, he’s constantly surrounded by moral hypocrisy, at work, with all the church goers etc… It drives his character insane by the time he leaves in 2002, probably also why he broke up with his lady

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I ventured out of PWI specifically to find out whether people were talking about True Detective. I’m not a big TV guy, but of the series I’ve seen and liked, it’s already taken the undisputed top spot.

I think tomorrow night’s episode will put the “Marty/Rust is the killer” theories in the ground (though I’ve suspected Marty from time to time), and I think we’ll finally have an unambiguous idea as to where the story is actually going.

Even more than the narrative-plot and emotional resolutions, I’m looking forward to seeing where Rust ends up philosophically. He’s been as much a hypocrite as Marty in many ways–he talks a big atheist, anti-natalist, existential-nihilist, everybody-is-nobody game, but just about everything he does is in service of a strict, obvious morality. (Why, for example, put the kid in the bathtub during that balls-out single shot raid scene, if that kid is nobody? Why did Ledoux deserve to die, if he, too, was nobody?) Say Rust dies in the final conflict, doesn’t that mean Marty’s idea about community and the common good win out, in the end?[/quote]

I think the reason Rust puts kids in the bathtub or looks down on Marty for cheating on his wife has nothing to do with religion. Rust is a “true detective” or true cop. His sense of right and wrong is what drives him. [/quote]

Oh yeah, I agree. I didn’t mean to imply he’d have a religious conversion. I’m talking more about his tendency to lean toward existential nihilism–life is completely meaningless, right and wrong do not exist.

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I ventured out of PWI specifically to find out whether people were talking about True Detective. I’m not a big TV guy, but of the series I’ve seen and liked, it’s already taken the undisputed top spot.

I think tomorrow night’s episode will put the “Marty/Rust is the killer” theories in the ground (though I’ve suspected Marty from time to time), and I think we’ll finally have an unambiguous idea as to where the story is actually going.

Even more than the narrative-plot and emotional resolutions, I’m looking forward to seeing where Rust ends up philosophically. He’s been as much a hypocrite as Marty in many ways–he talks a big atheist, anti-natalist, existential-nihilist, everybody-is-nobody game, but just about everything he does is in service of a strict, obvious morality. (Why, for example, put the kid in the bathtub during that balls-out single shot raid scene, if that kid is nobody? Why did Ledoux deserve to die, if he, too, was nobody?) Say Rust dies in the final conflict, doesn’t that mean Marty’s idea about community and the common good win out, in the end?[/quote]

I think the reason Rust puts kids in the bathtub or looks down on Marty for cheating on his wife has nothing to do with religion. Rust is a “true detective” or true cop. His sense of right and wrong is what drives him. [/quote]

Oh yeah, I agree. I didn’t mean to imply he’d have a religious conversion. I’m talking more about his tendency to lean toward existential nihilism–life is completely meaningless, right and wrong do not exist.[/quote]

The “flat circle” is straight from Nietzsche’s eternal recurrence themes and explores the possibility that death and the lack of existence after death isn’t the worst possibility; the worst possibility is reliving the same existence over and over. Nietzsche uses the theme to explore whether we would all lead passive lives if we had to relive it over and over, i.e., whether a person would be willing to carry on as they do if they knew it would all happen again (eternally). Ground Hog Day explores the same theme. In a sense, Russ is basically a darker version of Bill Murry’s character in Ground Hog Day, only we only get to see one timeline.

The greatest weight.–

What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: “This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence–even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!”

Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus?.. Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life to crave nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal?

– From Nietzsche’s The Gay Science, s.341, Walter Kaufmann transl.

Gonna be good.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I ventured out of PWI specifically to find out whether people were talking about True Detective. I’m not a big TV guy, but of the series I’ve seen and liked, it’s already taken the undisputed top spot.

I think tomorrow night’s episode will put the “Marty/Rust is the killer” theories in the ground (though I’ve suspected Marty from time to time), and I think we’ll finally have an unambiguous idea as to where the story is actually going.

Even more than the narrative-plot and emotional resolutions, I’m looking forward to seeing where Rust ends up philosophically. He’s been as much a hypocrite as Marty in many ways–he talks a big atheist, anti-natalist, existential-nihilist, everybody-is-nobody game, but just about everything he does is in service of a strict, obvious morality. (Why, for example, put the kid in the bathtub during that balls-out single shot raid scene, if that kid is nobody? Why did Ledoux deserve to die, if he, too, was nobody?) Say Rust dies in the final conflict, doesn’t that mean Marty’s idea about community and the common good win out, in the end?[/quote]

I think the reason Rust puts kids in the bathtub or looks down on Marty for cheating on his wife has nothing to do with religion. Rust is a “true detective” or true cop. His sense of right and wrong is what drives him. [/quote]

Oh yeah, I agree. I didn’t mean to imply he’d have a religious conversion. I’m talking more about his tendency to lean toward existential nihilism–life is completely meaningless, right and wrong do not exist.[/quote]

The “flat circle” is straight from Nietzsche’s eternal recurrence themes and explores the possibility that death and the lack of existence after death isn’t the worst possibility; the worst possibility is reliving the same existence over and over. Nietzsche uses the theme to explore whether we would all lead passive lives if we had to relive it over and over, i.e., whether a person would be willing to carry on as they do if they knew it would all happen again (eternally). Ground Hog Day explores the same theme. In a sense, Russ is basically a darker version of Bill Murry’s character in Ground Hog Day, only we only get to see one timeline.
[/quote]

Yes indeed. He even mentioned Nietzsche to Ledoux.

Even still, some of his other, unrelated monologues recall Schopenhauer, for example.

The cops are into the cover up. I watched all episodes over yesterday and in E5, there’s a scene where Cohle is looking at some microfilms of what looks like missing kids/women. And it had some sort of error message under each entry, like the cops blew each missing person off.

Rob

Looks like the gardner is old man tutles grandson. Its obvious hes done some murders but Im still not convinced hes the yellow king. At this point im thinking the tutle familys been sacrificing white trash in the bayou for centuries. The good ol boy system covers it up with kick backs & bumps up the food chain. But???

  1. What is carcosa
  2. Who all is in the masks
  3. Who killed Billy Lee

Shows starting to seem alot like “the girl with the dragon tatoo”

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Looks like the gardner is old man tutles grandson. Its obvious hes done some murders but Im still not convinced hes the yellow king. At this point im thinking the tutle familys been sacrificing white trash in the bayou for centuries. The good ol boy system covers it up with kick backs & bumps up the food chain. But???

  1. What is carcosa
  2. Who all is in the masks
  3. Who killed Billy Lee

Shows starting to seem alot like “the girl with the dragon tatoo”[/quote]

I think Carcosa is where the killings happen, somewhere deep and remote. The film clip was creepy and now our suspicions about the lawn mower man are answered.

Was expecting a bit more that what we saw last night. E8 has go to be better or I will be let down.

Rob

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Looks like the gardner is old man tutles grandson. Its obvious hes done some murders but Im still not convinced hes the yellow king. At this point im thinking the tutle familys been sacrificing white trash in the bayou for centuries. The good ol boy system covers it up with kick backs & bumps up the food chain. But???

  1. What is carcosa
  2. Who all is in the masks
  3. Who killed Billy Lee

Shows starting to seem alot like “the girl with the dragon tatoo”[/quote]

I think Carcosa is where the killings happen, somewhere deep and remote. The film clip was creepy and now our suspicions about the lawn mower man are answered.

Was expecting a bit more that what we saw last night. E8 has go to be better or I will be let down.

Rob[/quote]

I was happy with last nights episode. It is setting up for an epic last episode.

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Looks like the gardner is old man tutles grandson. Its obvious hes done some murders but Im still not convinced hes the yellow king. At this point im thinking the tutle familys been sacrificing white trash in the bayou for centuries. The good ol boy system covers it up with kick backs & bumps up the food chain. But???

  1. What is carcosa
  2. Who all is in the masks
  3. Who killed Billy Lee

Shows starting to seem alot like “the girl with the dragon tatoo”[/quote]
I think Carcosa is a literal and figurative place, where sacrifices are made.
The Tuddles and associates, probably the rich and powerful in the bayou.
The Billy Lee thing was answered in the episode. Hart broke into a bunch of his houses and in the second one recovered the tape and pictures associating Tuddle with the crimes. The higher ups caught wind and Tuddle either killed himself or was killed so the evidence didn’t get out.

Last night was, in my opinion, the best acting we’ve seen so far. By now we “know” these two guys about as well as we can (or so we think), but last night we found them living two very lonely and fairly miserable lives, more vulnerable and yet also less deluded than either had ever been before, and somehow having come to accept their relationship for what it is. Incompatible as they’ve always been, the case and their partnership is the only thing of value that either has.

That’s a lot, and somehow I picked up all of it. Thought they did a great job. And I’m looking forward to a very crowded hour for the finale.

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Last night was, in my opinion, the best acting we’ve seen so far. By now we “know” these two guys about as well as we can (or so we think), but last night we found them living two very lonely and fairly miserable lives, more vulnerable and yet also less deluded than either had ever been before, and somehow having come to accept their relationship for what it is. Incompatible as they’ve always been, the case and their partnership is the only thing of value that either has.

That’s a lot, and somehow I picked up all of it. Thought they did a great job. And I’m looking forward to a very crowded hour for the finale.[/quote]

Agree. But, looks to me that Rust is also connected with the bar owner that lost a son years ago. I got a feeling that there is a back story in there with those two. Like they have had a lot of talks that hasn’t been shown in the show.

What are the odds that Rust comes back to LA and gets a job at a serious dive bar, where the owner just happened to have a son go missing years ago? You could tell that Rust already knew how to handle him. They “know” each other. Did you notice how the owner was acting towards Marty when he was thinking he was still a cop?

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned but when I first heard “The Yellow King” it reminded me of the book/story collection called “The King in Yellow” by Robert Chambers. It’s made up of various stories that are connected with a play called The King in Yellow and those that read it, well bad things happen. I re-read it over the weekend and interesting that Carcosa is seen in excerpts of the play. I think there is something here for those looking deeper at the show/writing. Some more food for thought or something to investigate between episodes, heh.

I went back and watched it again last night, just E7. There was a lot going on that I missed at my 1st watching. The Yellow King is probably the now deceased Rev. Tuttle. And now they have Steve Geraci to grill, who is key to the whole cover up.

Rob

Shitloads of subtleties in this show.

Hart Investigative Solutions(HIS)

Marty was always a little too possessive over things he loved. His wife, his family, his mistress…it was all there to make him happy, in his head at least. All those things were HIS, and they were supposed to do things for HIM. Now in 2012, he finally has something that is 100% his, and he’s secretly miserable. Just love all the little things this show does well, literary, indeed.

I want the good to end happily and the bad unhappily but I can’t shake the feeling that Marty’s a goner.

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I want the good to end happily and the bad unhappily but I can’t shake the feeling that Marty’s a goner.

[/quote]

Agreed. & somewhere in the mix his daughter has to be involved. Or, at the very least, maybe her bf? & showing clips for next week, a shot of Cohle sitting & watching the sunset… Almost like that might be the last shot.

I think there is more to Marty’s ex-wife.