Hammering on People for Their Goals

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]I hate to break this to you in the middle of such a feel good post…but the comments he received and thanked were the comments you are trying to get rid of. The comments that caused him to rethink his behavior are the ones you want to get rid of. Like I wrote before in another thread, I have been on this site and others for a long time. The one thing I can honestly say is that people remember a certain style more than others. You can make things as “touchy-feely” as you want to, but when it comes down to it, I am willing to be that SOME people will remember the posts that didn’t try to cater to a teddy bear approach but still provided the truth and an honest assessment over those that simply told them what they wanted to hear.

Bottom line, why are you complaining when the guy from the other thread isn’t? Isn’t his progress the focus? How did your feelings come into this then?
[/quote]

You think you’re tough don’t you?

62

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Griff, this is me trying to be nice:
It’s not a straw man attack if YOU change the subject and he responds to it.
Technically, you’re guilty of the straw man, actually.

I know what you’re trying to say, I just think you’re arguing the wrong point with the wrong people.

What you’re dealing with here is a bunch of people who don’t like change and don’t want to change, and don’t even really see why they should change–caught up in a place they love that’s changing before our eyes.
It stings some.

[/quote]

I didn’t change the subject.

Public schools blow me away man.

63

[quote]Olympiclfter wrote:

You think you’re tough don’t you?[/quote]

What? As far as I’ve come in life, I would venture to say that I know I am tough, but that has nothing to do with anything written in this thread. I asked you questions that you avoided. Why? If the other poster thanked me for what I wrote, why does what I wrote offend you in relation to him? The real question is, are you tough enough to answer the damn question?

64

[quote]GriffinC wrote:

I didn’t change the subject.

Public schools blow me away man.[/quote]

is that supposed to mean something?

Think hard…

65

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:

What you’re dealing with here is a bunch of people who don’t like change and don’t want to change, and don’t even really see why they should change–caught up in a place they love that’s changing before our eyes.
It stings some.
[/quote]
I guess change is inevitable, but we can and should influence the direction…

66

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
I guess change is inevitable, but we can and should influence the direction…[/quote]

Well said. Again, I haven’t read anyone here state that everyone should ahve the same goal. That isn’t even realistic. I wrote what my personal goals are in this thread already. There are guys who compete bigger than I am now at a smooth offseason weight…but I don’t want to look like that. I think it has been laid out who most are referring to when they post a pic and receive criticism for their thought process. It isn’t directed at anyone trying to get stronger, build muscle or reach a goal in the line of athletics, power lifting, martial arts or bodybuilding. I don’t understand why anyone would still be in the dark.

If you look like you don’t lift weights and you log on wanting to avoid gaining muscle but to only lose what little fat you have to show a six pack, I would think Jarod at Subway would do you more good than this website.

67

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
I guess change is inevitable, but we can and should influence the direction…[/quote]

agreed.

68

[quote]GriffinC wrote:
Straw man attack!!! You can’t argue with me so you attack me personally, good job!!! You get a check-plus on your crybabybitch-reportcard.[/quote]

I have posted several things here proving my point that this is a bodybuilding website. And yet your name-calling and personal attacks has done nothing but prove just how out of your class you are trying to argue with me. And just a couple of posts later, you tell me I have no life. How does that prove your point?

You need to go finish watching cartoons.

Do you know what strawman means? Just because you can spell it doesn’t mean you know what it means. Please find something that proves your point that this is not a BB site.

I’ll be waiting.

69

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Well said. Again, I haven’t read anyone here state that everyone should ahve the same goal. That isn’t even realistic. I wrote what my personal goals are in this thread already. There are guys who compete bigger than I am now at a smooth offseason weight…but I don’t want to look like that. I think it has been laid out who most are referring to when they post a pic and receive criticism for their thought process. It isn’t directed at anyone trying to get stronger, build muscle or reach a goal in the line of athletics, power lifting, martial arts or bodybuilding. I don’t understand why anyone would still be in the dark.

If you look like you don’t lift weights and you log on wanting to avoid gaining muscle but to only lose what little fat you have to show a six pack, I would think Jarod at Subway would do you more good than this website.[/quote]

Speaking of goals, Prof, are you heading kind of toward the Robbie Robinson build when you get done cutting?

I hadn’t even thought of him for years until that picture in DJ’s thread reminded me of how…well, not to be gay about it, but how beautiful his build was.

70

The only guys that get flamed are the ones that come on this site, ask for advice and then insult those that offer it.

71

Back when I was 135lbs, I thought I was “muscular” because I had abs. Then, it was pointed out to me that the biggest, fattest guy on the football team (also threw in T&F) had more muscular definition in his legs. That embarassed me - I was a distance guy.

Well, I got out of track after highschool, all of a sudden, I’m putting on weight.

Fast forward to now - I’m 205lbs. Big, fat, ugly, 205lbs. Except for the fat part.

Moral of the story - get bigger. Punk.

72

[quote]
What? As far as I’ve come in life, I would venture to say that I know I am tough, but that has nothing to do with anything written in this thread. I asked you questions that you avoided. Why? If the other poster thanked me for what I wrote, why does what I wrote offend you in relation to him? The real question is, are you tough enough to answer the damn question?[/quote]

Yeah you’ve accomplished alot in life. Everyone has heard of your great exploits. What were they again?

But yes, I am tough enough to answer you question. I wasn’t refering to just one post. This has been happening more and more. So what if this last kid just took it, learned and moved on. He’s smart. I’d say smarter than you from the way it sounds. He heard something that may not have sounded good and went against his own opinion, but he listened and thought maybe I am wrong. The point isn’t if someone took the abuse. The point is are being as helpful as we can be.

And don’t question my toughness big boy. I’ve grew up in house where I had the crap beaten out of many times a week by my mother. I would go to kickboxing (started when I was 7) and come home and have her beat the crap out of me. I could have hit back. Hell I went toe to toe with grown men since I was 8(one of them being a world kickboxing champion). I could kicked the crap out of her. But would take a beating and do nothing because she was my mother and that alone deserves respect. My dad knew about it and didn’t do anything. I still have scars on my forehead from where she puched me with the diamond in her wedding ring. At 21 I was homeless and living out of my car. I would wake up drive to a friends house shower then drive to my part time job. After work I would go look for a better job. So don’t tell me that you’re tough or that you accomplished a lot cause that don’t mean crap to me.

73

As a broad term it definitely is a bodybuilding website. This covers the powerlifting, posing, general physical preparation, etc. The dieting is necessary in building, cutting and energy ballance. Just because it does not pertain to being a roided out mammoth that eventualy self destructs doesn’t mean that it isn’t bodybuilding. It’s all bodybuilding unless you are trying to beome less of an athlete, lose muscle and gain some fat. Bodybuilding is a prety broad term.
But that aside- Whats with the Strawman thing. Everytime someone feels like they are losing ground, they cry strawman. Most of the time incorrectly.

74

Maybe some people could be more diplomatic in their posts in the physique pictures section, but one question: if someone has the self-confidence to post pictures of their body on a big lifting website, doesn’t it stand to reason that they’ll also have the confidence/thick skin to endure some harsh critiques and even the occasional (gasp!) insult, without suffering irreparable damage to their psyche?

75

[quote]GriffinC wrote:
rainjack wrote:
What in the fuck does it matter what is in my avatar?

If that’s all you have - you need to go find a better argument. It’s as weak as you are.

And you are EXACTLY the type of person that could never understand “Dangerously Hardcore”. You are an angry, little boy, who seems to have found his bravery behind the safety of a computer screen.

Chill out - have a soy-latte, and think about why tyou are even fucking here, son.

Straw man attack!!! You can’t argue with me so you attack me personally, good job!!! You get a check-plus on your crybabybitch-reportcard.[/quote]

You are actually referring to Ad Hominem.

Strawman has to do with setting up and defeating an aspect of the arguement that wasn’t there.

76

[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
As a broad term it definitely is a bodybuilding website. This covers the powerlifting, posing, general physical preparation, etc. The dieting is necessary in building, cutting and energy ballance. Just because it does not pertain to being a roided out mammoth that eventualy self destructs doesn’t mean that it isn’t bodybuilding. It’s all bodybuilding unless you are trying to beome less of an athlete, lose muscle and gain some fat. Bodybuilding is a prety broad term.
[/quote]

Anyone remember an Atomic Dog TC had on this, a while back, maybe three or four years ago? He talked about how he’s kind of averse to the word "bodybuilding,’ and that what he and most people on this site do is not “bodybuild,” but “train.” Might seem like semantics, but it made a lot of sense.

77

now that you mention TC in this, didn’t he write a Dog in the last few months called “Hardcore No More” in which he said basically that the place is growing, tough?
At least, that’s what I got out of it.
I’ve been down in the dumps ever since.

78

[quote]rainjack wrote:
GriffinC wrote:
Straw man attack!!! You can’t argue with me so you attack me personally, good job!!! You get a check-plus on your crybabybitch-reportcard.

I have posted several things here proving my point that this is a bodybuilding website. And yet your name-calling and personal attacks has done nothing but prove just how out of your class you are trying to argue with me. And just a couple of posts later, you tell me I have no life. How does that prove your point? [/quote]
It’s a site for anyone, we’ve been over this. They wouldn’t have fatloss articles, powerlifting coaches, strength and conditioning coaches, and tons of other shit that have nothing to do with bodybuilding if this was a bodybuilding site only.

I just proved my point about this site not being for bodybuilders only.

Again, says the guy with a cartoon avatar. Good job hypocrite.

[quote]
Do you know what strawman means? Just because you can spell it doesn’t mean you know what it means. Please find something that proves your point that this is not a BB site.
[/quote] This IS a bodybuilding site, it’s also an athletic site, an olypic site, it’s whatever we want it to be. If you would stop obbsessing and putting labels on shit, we wouldn’t have to have this conversation.

Proof you have no life. You’re waiting for a response from an 18 year old athlete about why this is not a site for bodybuilders only, how sad.

79

Wow, all the personal attacks and personal justifications of toughness are really not helping this thread. I believe they call this penis-waving. Sad.

What does “Bodybuilding’s Think Tank” and “Dangerously Hardcore” mean? Well, the one physiology in common between athletes, bodybuilders, powerlifters, etc. is…muscle. We need muscle to do what we like to do. Therefore, at some point in our lives we will need to add some. Mentally, what is in common - hard work, learning all pertinent info, dedication to improvement.

So when someone signs on looking for advice and has no muscle (and doesn’t want any), does no work, doesn’t care to learn, and doesn’t want to improve - what do you suppose we should say?

A lot of these guys just want free info, and easy reults. They are an insult to all hard workers - just as Prof X says - it makes all our efforts seem like a joke.
Imagine if you were a college professor and told your class that you were available for any and all questions and you’d be happy to help. What would you do if a student came up to you and said he wants you to teach him everything you know, but he’s just going to sit there and it’s YOUR job to make sure he learns.

There are no free rides, yet that is what most of these people want. In addition many of them show no respect. Sometimes I think it might be a good idea to go back to the time when there weren’t any forums, or require newbies to do some reading before they post. Nearly all questions can be answered by reading previous articles, and for ones who don’t want to go through the effort, stop clogging up our damn forums. These kinds of people fuck it up for the newbies who actually want to achieve, we’d like to help these kinds of people but when 90% of newbies are lazy idiots, it isn’t conducive to being helpful.

My point- don’t post if the person isn’t going to work, be respectful, or have rational discourse. It will save us time and agony, and just maybe they’ll go away. Baring any restrictions in posting that is our only option.

-J

80

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=587713

I think we are giving a bit too much credit to the word bodybuilding. Enough to the point that we will never be addressing eachother. There will always be a dispute as to what “bodybuilding” is.

There are solid points defending it as bodybuilding the sport, and bodybuilding as the act of sport preparation.

I’ve lurked here for quite awhile and I am far from a bodybuilder. I weighed in today at 170 @ 7% body fat. I know I am far from huge… wouldn’t even throw a single bicep against the said vets. I have now had my fair share of posts and this thread makes me wonder why I haven’t been flamed yet. I am far from ever being a competitive powerlifter, olympic lifter, bodybuilder.

I might be asking for it here… but… I still consider myself hardcore. Sure, if you took 100 guys from T-Nation, chances are a stranger would rather pick a fight with me… but I can’t use this as an example to discredit myself as hardcore. However, if someone told me they wanted to be “hardcore” I wouldn’t tell them to be a triathlete… I’d probably direct them to the likes of the majority of Vets here.

There are a lot of reasons this site has changed. I’d argue that a lot has to do with the market. T-Nation can’t sell prohormones… so that in itself could have a lot to do with this “new direction” that everyone is talking about.

I still think it comes down to respect…

"R-E-S-P-E-C-T, find ou—No, but, seriously. If you have a reason for your goal… fine. I have to be light for my sport… if I wasn’t a triathlete, I’d be bulking right now. If you don’t want to be “hyooge” and have a legitimate reason… fine. If you don’t want to be “hyooge” because of your lack of understanding… not fine.