Goals That CAN Be Achieved By Everyone

Training Powerlifting
81

[quote]malonetd wrote:
BALBO wrote:
Bullcrap! 50+ pull-ups are pure strength-endurance.Its easily trainable.
If you take average male ( around 180 lb.) and pay him 100 000 dollars a year to do hundreds of pull-ups a day,are you saying that in 5 years he couldnt do 55 pull-ups in a row??!!??

So, again, I’m confused about the question in this thread. Now we are talking about a 180 lb male with 5 years of consistent, specific training?[/quote]

We’re all just making up our own rules as we go along.

It’s funnerrer that way.

82

Double-bodyweight bench-press is achievable.
Train hard,train smart,train long,eat clean,sleep well and believe in yourself.

83

[quote]BALBO wrote:
I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher. [/quote]

The original question was… at the same time.

So let’s say you go on this spartan regime and train yourself up to 50+ reps. You’re probably going to lose weight to do that.

Do you think you’re going to be able to squat 500#, bench 400#, and deadlift 550# at the same time that you can do 50+ pullups and run a 5:30 mile?

Most guys I know who can do 50 pullups weigh less than 180#. Most of them are actually in the 140-160# range. And a guy that light isn’t going to be hitting those PL numbers.

84

[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
BALBO wrote:
I worked on a construction site for years and let me tell you that 40-year old 170 lb. workers with bad low backs from all the over-use and a beer belly couls easily deadlift 400 lb. And with a good program and more rest,they would in half a year deadlift 500 lb.
We are talking about people that smoke 2 packs a day and drink heavily.
I think you are underestimating average potential.

Guys on a construction site are generally stronger than guys who work in offices. The construction workers have a stronger base to work from. And let me tell you that I’ve known lots of 40 year old 170# workers with GOOD low backs who couldn’t deadlift 400# without a lot of training.

And there’s a big difference between deadlifting and squatting. The AAU world record deadlift for a 165# man is 620# but the squat world record is 501#.

Of the 500/400/550 estimate, the 550 DL is the one that’s the least off base. Although I think it’s still a bit high… but that might be personal bias because of my own deadlift.[/quote]

Take a hundred of 5 year old boys.
Train them daily in pistols and body squats.
When they reach 15 years,train they Westside.Reward good effort,punish brutaly poor efforts.
At 30 years old,test their max squat.
I bet about 80 of them would squat 500 lb.

85

[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
BALBO wrote:
I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher.

The original question was… at the same time.

So let’s say you go on this spartan regime and train yourself up to 50+ reps. You’re probably going to lose weight to do that.

Do you think you’re going to be able to squat 500#, bench 400#, and deadlift 550# at the same time that you can do 50+ pullups and run a 5:30 mile?

Most guys I know who can do 50 pullups weigh less than 180#. Most of them are actually in the 140-160# range. And a guy that light isn’t going to be hitting those PL numbers.[/quote]

I think all this is doable if you start to train those guys early enough and that they are paid well to train just that.Like 20 year old guys training for those numbers for 10 years.
I assume they would have to be like 200 lb. at about 10 % body-fat.
What do you think?

86

[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
BALBO wrote:
I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher.

The original question was… at the same time.

So let’s say you go on this spartan regime and train yourself up to 50+ reps. You’re probably going to lose weight to do that.

Do you think you’re going to be able to squat 500#, bench 400#, and deadlift 550# at the same time that you can do 50+ pullups and run a 5:30 mile?

Most guys I know who can do 50 pullups weigh less than 180#. Most of them are actually in the 140-160# range. And a guy that light isn’t going to be hitting those PL numbers.[/quote]

Successfull achiever of those goals would probably be a solid powerlifter that has chin-up bar in his living room and in his office and does a lot of hard 400 metres and 1 mile runs twice a week.

87

[quote]BALBO wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:
Dirty_Bulk - your info says you weigh 210 lbs. Can you do 50+ pull-ups? And how many people do you know at a similar weight (or any weight at all) that can do that?

My best-ever amount of consecutive pullups was 25@235. My grip tires doing these long before my back does. I wasn’t doing all that much pullup-specific training at the time, and I don’t think that it’s unreasonable whatsoever to assume that a lighter or leaner trainee could double this figure, especially with greater emphasis put on this “event.”

I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher. [/quote]

No joke. Let’s assume you drop to a ridiculous 5% bodyfat, losing NO muscle. You would weigh 170. I still don’t think you’re hitting 50 real pull-ups (proper form). That 50 # is ridiculous. The only, and I mean only, people I could see hitting it are short guys with short arms, ripped to the bone, with BW 150 lbs. or less.

Balbo and Dirty Bulk and some others, you guys have a very unrealistic idea of what is attainable, but to get to the root of the problem: everyone is posting what they think is attainable for the “average” male. Perhaps it might help the discussion to define what “average” is, i.e. the starting point for our hypothetical trainee.

For example: If “average” is say an untrained individual, 5’10", 185 lbs @ 18% bodyfat, age 18, normal build (i.e. no genetic disposition for extra long OR short arms, torso, legs, etc), then maybe we can get a better idea of where people stand. We also need to define training and supplementation. Is the trainee being trained full-time by elite experts, with all the supplements and gym time needed (i.e. all he does is train - full-time job)? What about anabolics? Either way, I’m still calling no way on 50 pullups, and almost certainly no way on a 5:30 mile at the same time the trainee is benching 400 and squatting/deadlifting 500/550.

Remember two things: 1) Form follows function. If trainee is adding muscle, getting big and strong, the pull-up # and the mile # become even harder.

  1. In lifting, we live by the Law of Diminishing Returns. As others have said, getting from say 200 to 300 on the bench isn’t all THAT hard. Going from there to 400 (and beyond) is a whole 'nother animal.

2H

88

[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
BALBO wrote:

The original question was… at the same time.

So let’s say you go on this spartan regime and train yourself up to 50+ reps. You’re probably going to lose weight to do that.

Do you think you’re going to be able to squat 500#, bench 400#, and deadlift 550# at the same time that you can do 50+ pullups and run a 5:30 mile?

Most guys I know who can do 50 pullups weigh less than 180#. Most of them are actually in the 140-160# range. And a guy that light isn’t going to be hitting those PL numbers.[/quote]

Exactly. Form follows function.

Also just read Balbo’s latest posts, so it gets back to what I just posted: are we defining this average trainee in REALISTIC terms, or the absolute limits of human achievement?

89

[quote]doubleh wrote:
BALBO wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:
Dirty_Bulk - your info says you weigh 210 lbs. Can you do 50+ pull-ups? And how many people do you know at a similar weight (or any weight at all) that can do that?

My best-ever amount of consecutive pullups was 25@235. My grip tires doing these long before my back does. I wasn’t doing all that much pullup-specific training at the time, and I don’t think that it’s unreasonable whatsoever to assume that a lighter or leaner trainee could double this figure, especially with greater emphasis put on this “event.”

I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher.

No joke. Let’s assume you drop to a ridiculous 5% bodyfat, losing NO muscle. You would weigh 170. I still don’t think you’re hitting 50 real pull-ups (proper form). That 50 # is ridiculous. The only, and I mean only, people I could see hitting it are short guys with short arms, ripped to the bone, with BW 150 lbs. or less.

Balbo and Dirty Bulk and some others, you guys have a very unrealistic idea of what is attainable, but to get to the root of the problem: everyone is posting what they think is attainable for the “average” male. Perhaps it might help the discussion to define what “average” is, i.e. the starting point for our hypothetical trainee.

For example: If “average” is say an untrained individual, 5’10", 185 lbs @ 18% bodyfat, age 18, normal build (i.e. no genetic disposition for extra long OR short arms, torso, legs, etc), then maybe we can get a better idea of where people stand. We also need to define training and supplementation. Is the trainee being trained full-time by elite experts, with all the supplements and gym time needed (i.e. all he does is train - full-time job)? What about anabolics? Either way, I’m still calling no way on 50 pullups, and almost certainly no way on a 5:30 mile at the same time the trainee is benching 400 and squatting/deadlifting 500/550.

Remember two things: 1) Form follows function. If trainee is adding muscle, getting big and strong, the pull-up # and the mile # become even harder.

  1. In lifting, we live by the Law of Diminishing Returns. As others have said, getting from say 200 to 300 on the bench isn’t all THAT hard. Going from there to 400 (and beyond) is a whole 'nother animal.

2H[/quote]

Bullshit!
Average gym bencher benching 220 lb. is a Play Station playing TV-overwatching skinny-fat shoulder-benching loser that can be greatly improved if you put him in Westside Barbell Gym.
On pull-ups…apply radical concept of training strength-endurance frequently and with high volume.
Lock up a person in a dark cell with a chin-up bar and tell him that he will be released when he does 50 pull ups and watch a miracle.

90

[quote]doubleh wrote:
The Pencil Neck wrote:
BALBO wrote:

The original question was… at the same time.

So let’s say you go on this spartan regime and train yourself up to 50+ reps. You’re probably going to lose weight to do that.

Do you think you’re going to be able to squat 500#, bench 400#, and deadlift 550# at the same time that you can do 50+ pullups and run a 5:30 mile?

Most guys I know who can do 50 pullups weigh less than 180#. Most of them are actually in the 140-160# range. And a guy that light isn’t going to be hitting those PL numbers.

Exactly. Form follows function.

Also just read Balbo’s latest posts, so it gets back to what I just posted: are we defining this average trainee in REALISTIC terms, or the absolute limits of human achievement?[/quote]

This thread is about genetic limits.
I will never run under 11 seconds in 100 meters,but I refuse to believe I cant train myself to do 50 pull–ups.

91

This thread got stupid real fast.

92

[quote]BALBO wrote:
mldj wrote:
I don’t agree about the 50+ pullups part. It must be because no one trains pullups like bench pressing, but I haven’t seen someone doing something with close resemblance to pullups for 50 reps. I think the good old 300/400/500 is goal that can be achieved by average-sized guy.

Bullcrap! 50+ pull-ups are pure strength-endurance.Its easily trainable.
If you take average male ( around 180 lb.) and pay him 100 000 dollars a year to do hundreds of pull-ups a day,are you saying that in 5 years he couldnt do 55 pull-ups in a row??!!??[/quote]

50+ pullups easily trainable by average male, when the world record for 1 minute is 47?
A lot more easier said than done. Theorycrafting is a fucking bad thing to practise.

The OP, I think, asked that question with the hope to be told where he should be aiming in the long term. Some of the guys posting had this or something similar in mind, and some of the others went “But if Bill Gates paid you to…”

93

[quote]mldj wrote:
BALBO wrote:
mldj wrote:
I don’t agree about the 50+ pullups part. It must be because no one trains pullups like bench pressing, but I haven’t seen someone doing something with close resemblance to pullups for 50 reps. I think the good old 300/400/500 is goal that can be achieved by average-sized guy.

Bullcrap! 50+ pull-ups are pure strength-endurance.Its easily trainable.
If you take average male ( around 180 lb.) and pay him 100 000 dollars a year to do hundreds of pull-ups a day,are you saying that in 5 years he couldnt do 55 pull-ups in a row??!!??

50+ pullups easily trainable by average male, when the world record for 1 minute is 47?
A lot more easier said than done. Theorycrafting is a fucking bad thing to practise.

The OP, I think, asked that question with the hope to be told where he should be aiming in the long term. Some of the guys posting had this or something similar in mind, and some of the others went “But if Bill Gates paid you to…”[/quote]

World record pull-up in one minute is only 47 reps.So what??!! How many time is wasted during that one minute to drop to dead-hang after completing concentric phase.

Why would we (average men) aim to underachieve?
Bill Gates reference was only there for motivation importance emphasis.
When motivated enough,average guy can achieve a lot.

94

[quote]malonetd wrote:
This thread got stupid real fast.[/quote]

If you are of such superior intelligence,the fell free to find some MENSA forum and leavee this thread.

95

[quote]BALBO wrote:
doubleh wrote:
BALBO wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:

I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher.

No joke. Let’s assume you drop to a ridiculous 5% bodyfat, losing NO muscle. You would weigh 170. I still don’t think you’re hitting 50 real pull-ups (proper form). That 50 # is ridiculous. The only, and I mean only, people I could see hitting it are short guys with short arms, ripped to the bone, with BW 150 lbs. or less.

Balbo and Dirty Bulk and some others, you guys have a very unrealistic idea of what is attainable, but to get to the root of the problem: everyone is posting what they think is attainable for the “average” male. Perhaps it might help the discussion to define what “average” is, i.e. the starting point for our hypothetical trainee.

For example: If “average” is say an untrained individual, 5’10", 185 lbs @ 18% bodyfat, age 18, normal build (i.e. no genetic disposition for extra long OR short arms, torso, legs, etc), then maybe we can get a better idea of where people stand. We also need to define training and supplementation. Is the trainee being trained full-time by elite experts, with all the supplements and gym time needed (i.e. all he does is train - full-time job)? What about anabolics? Either way, I’m still calling no way on 50 pullups, and almost certainly no way on a 5:30 mile at the same time the trainee is benching 400 and squatting/deadlifting 500/550.

Remember two things: 1) Form follows function. If trainee is adding muscle, getting big and strong, the pull-up # and the mile # become even harder.

  1. In lifting, we live by the Law of Diminishing Returns. As others have said, getting from say 200 to 300 on the bench isn’t all THAT hard. Going from there to 400 (and beyond) is a whole 'nother animal.

2H

Bullshit!
Average gym bencher benching 220 lb. is a Play Station playing TV-overwatching skinny-fat shoulder-benching loser that can be greatly improved if you put him in Westside Barbell Gym.
On pull-ups…apply radical concept of training strength-endurance frequently and with high volume.
Lock up a person in a dark cell with a chin-up bar and tell him that he will be released when he does 50 pull ups and watch a miracle.[/quote]

What part of my post, exactly, is bullshit?

This is a worthless example. So under extreme duress can an average male work up to 50 pullups for his freedom? Perhaps. Could he at the same time also perform the other feats? No.

We are not talking about torturing people into 50 pull-ups. We are talking about an average trainee working up to ALL of those numbers.

96

[quote]BALBO wrote:
doubleh wrote:
The Pencil Neck wrote:
BALBO wrote:

The original question was… at the same time.

So let’s say you go on this spartan regime and train yourself up to 50+ reps. You’re probably going to lose weight to do that.

Do you think you’re going to be able to squat 500#, bench 400#, and deadlift 550# at the same time that you can do 50+ pullups and run a 5:30 mile?

Most guys I know who can do 50 pullups weigh less than 180#. Most of them are actually in the 140-160# range. And a guy that light isn’t going to be hitting those PL numbers.

Exactly. Form follows function.

Also just read Balbo’s latest posts, so it gets back to what I just posted: are we defining this average trainee in REALISTIC terms, or the absolute limits of human achievement?

This thread is about genetic limits.
I will never run under 11 seconds in 100 meters,but I refuse to believe I cant train myself to do 50 pull–ups.[/quote]

Not at 200 lbs you won’t, or even 170 at 5% bodyfat like in my example. But prove me wrong. Lock yourself in a dungeon and don’t come out until you get 50 good pullups.

97

I think everyone here is missing the point.

The question was what can the average male achieve…

We are talking about the average male, with average genetics, and an average work ethic.

The average male can hope to join a gym on Jan. 1 and last until about Feb. 1. At which point he’ll stop training and go back to playing X-Box, eating donuts and drinking beer 7 nights per week.

In that time, he’ll accomplish next to nothing, and then wait 11 months to try it all over again.

98

[quote]BALBO wrote:

I agree,but I think the gap between elite and average performance is not so big.
For example,average male working hard on his vertical jump would achieve 30 inch jump.40 inch vertical is world-class and its only 10 inches difference.
400 lb. deadlift is easily achieved,but 500 lb. DL is another animal.[/quote]

That’s an assisine observation. The difference between “elite” and the athletes missing the cut is usually a matter of small degrees. To say/imply something like “only 10 inches” is assinine - as if each individual had an endless linear training progression.

A guy might make 30 inches with hard training and spend the next ten years adding an inch. Same goes with many athletic endeavors. Again, musings like this are the stuff of the internet world. A bunch of mindless drivel.

And by the way, you imply/say one thing (gap not so big, only ten inches and then say that the extra 100lbs for the DL is another animal LOL) Trust me, 100 lbs on the deadlift and 10 inches on a trained athlete are monumental.

99

[quote]BALBO wrote:
Vertical jump=30 inches
Squat=400 lb.
Deadlift=500 lb.
Bench=300 lb.
Pull-ups=30 with body weight

Body-composition=200 lb. 10 % bf

Those are my conservative estimtes.
[/quote]

Is the gravity different in Spain? LOLOLOL. I was in an NBA pro summer league free agent camp in 91. Watched about 100 athletes get their vertical tested. 100 great athletes that were legit ball players. 30 inches puts you at the upper end of the spectrum. Period, end of story. To say casually that 30 is attainable to the average trainee is dreaming. Where do you get this nonsense?

And a 500lb DL? LOL. This is a fairly informed and dedicated crowd here and more than half these cats can’t DL 500lbs. and NEVER WILL.

Please stop, you’re killing me.

100

[quote]BALBO wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:
Dirty_Bulk - your info says you weigh 210 lbs. Can you do 50+ pull-ups? And how many people do you know at a similar weight (or any weight at all) that can do that?

My best-ever amount of consecutive pullups was 25@235. My grip tires doing these long before my back does. I wasn’t doing all that much pullup-specific training at the time, and I don’t think that it’s unreasonable whatsoever to assume that a lighter or leaner trainee could double this figure, especially with greater emphasis put on this “event.”

Out of the handful of decent-sized people that I know that have built their backs with lots of pullups, most can rep out these like crazy. To those that use a lot of added weight, an unweighted pullup is nothing. I’m not going to lie and say that I’ve tested them for a rep max, but I’m confident they could achieve a max over 50.

This is really a numbers game. How many people have I seen do 50 pullups? Very few. How many people do I see do pullups at all? Roughly the same amount.

TO ALL:
Not that I should have to explain this on T-Nation, but the fact of the matter is this:

Most people don’t wanna eat 6 or 7 times a day…
Most people don’t wanna do squats or deadlifts…
Most people don’t get 8 hours of sleep every night…
Most people don’t wanna get a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (or more) daily…
Most people don’t wanna do high reps…
Most people don’t wanna do heavy weight…
Most people don’t wanna do cardio…

…So most don’t. The OP didn’t ask “What do you think is achieveable by some excuse-making wannabe who only kinda wants to sorta get muscular and strong, but doesn’t really wanna put in the work and might have an injury or might weigh 96 pounds soaking wet or is afraid of the gym and doesn’t wanna get too big and look like Arnold and then later decides they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV?”

…So that’s not the question I answered.

You didn’t exactly answer the question and I call BULLSHIT. I’ll settle for a video of you achieving all those numbers you ho hum about (with good form) and I’ll let you slide with doing 25 full rep PULL UPS. And before you dismiss me as some “wannabe”, I achieve elite on all the major lifts (except PC which I don’t train) as per that table. And no, I cannot do 50 pull ups - I’m lucky to get 10. And yes, I do train them. And I have no effing idea how fast I could run a mile (assuming I could make it a mile).

50 pull ups. LMFAO.

This internet shit is really hilarious sometimes.

I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher. [/quote]

No I don’t. You’re assuming, incorrectly, that if full time dedicated and with perfect training you could make leaps and bounds progress over what a now fairly dedicated traineed could do, you’re making a big assumption. You’d improve for sure, but not necessarily by leaps and bounds. I understand genetics - you understand the stuff on the internet - not real life.

A guy half assed training with a 30 inch vertical might be lucky to add 4-5 inches with OPTIMAL training - and he might not get that. Why? Because he may very well have been very close to his potential even with the half assed training. Tweaks to programs usually in real life result in incremental progress - not big huge gains - the stuff of newbie gains.

This is a ridiculous discussion now.