[quote]mldj wrote:
If you’re asking about the pullups, I’ve been doing pullups everyday for about 4 years.[/quote]
How much of your progress happened in the last year?
I asked because your post gave the idea that you had made all the progress you were ever going to make. I thought these were lifetime goals.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
50 pull ups is ridiculous.[/quote]
Unless you do them Crossfit style. 
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I don’t even know how you attempt to answer this question. Is it what an untrained person can achieve with minimal training? Is it what someone serious about lifting can achieve? This question is so open-ended.
All I know is what I have achieved and the time and effort it took to get there.[/quote]
I’d agree with this guy. For the most part, I can see what everyone in the thread is getting at. Fifty may be a bit extreme, but I think D_B went high-end as a means of saying that more people could do it if they trained them more. Whether the number is accurate or not…oh wait, doesn’t even matter because this question is ridiculous in the first place.
Everyone has said some truth in here. This whole thread is kinda just spinning wheels.
[quote]lavi wrote:
The Pencil Neck wrote:
The vast majority of people are not athletes. [/quote]
This is obviously true, and something that needs to be considered.
[quote]
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your post, but I think you misunderstood the original query: “What do YOU think are some standards that EVERY healthy male could achieve, naturally and honestly, will good ole’ hard work and some time. I’m not saying easily achieve, but achievable.” (I added the *'s)
I think 500/400/550, 50+ pullups and a 5:30 mile are certainly achievable by an average young male with many years left to train. (basically what Dirty_Bulk posted). I’m not sure if the 500/400/550 could be achieved at the same time as the 50+ pullups & 5:30 mile, but at least if separated into 2 groups, they are very achievable in an average young male’s lifetime.[/quote]
This is how some people (D_B, lavi, probably me) look at it. The question was too open-ended in the beginning to give a real answer. If we go by lavi’s interpretation of the question, then I am more on the side of it “COULD” be done.
After re-reading this over, the guy who went in terms of BW multiplied by x is probably the best way to calculate in terms of lifts. That is, unless people are so obese these days that the average person weighs like 250.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
The 50 pull-up thing is ridiculous, even if you allow a person to do chin-ups. I have never seen anyone do 50 pull-ups in person. I understand people can do it but still I have spent a lot of time in the gym seeing as how this is my profession, so it is super rare.
To me that is the same as saying you think everyone can bench their bodyweight 50 times. How many people can bench 200 or even in the NFL how many people do 225 x 50 which is often below bodyweight? Basically no one, and ultimately you can achieve a greater strength on the bench than the pull-up.
Expecting everyone to be able to do a 400 lb bench press is also way off base. Hell I have been training pretty hard for 12 years and I still haven’t done that.[/quote]
Every third male on the planet is Chinese.Average Chinese male is an active 150 pounder.If motivated,they would train like machines.50 pull–ups would be nothing for them.
[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
…So most don’t. The OP didn’t ask “What do you think is achieveable by some excuse-making wannabe who only kinda wants to sorta get muscular and strong, but doesn’t really wanna put in the work and might have an injury or might weigh 96 pounds soaking wet or is afraid of the gym and doesn’t wanna get too big and look like Arnold and then later decides they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV?”
…So that’s not the question I answered.
No, the original poster asked:
"What do YOU think are some standards that EVERY healthy male could achieve, naturally and honestly, will good ole’ hard work and some time. I’m not saying easily achieve, but achievable. "
And the numbers that you gave would be world records or near world records for almost half the weight classes out there. A lot of healthy males that are 181# aren’t going to find a 400# bench achievable. And it’s not because they’re not trying hard enough or making mistakes in their training or diet.
Now, obviously, he asked what “YOU think” and you’ve answered what you think and that’s fine. It’s just extremely optimistic and unrealistic unless you know a bunch of people who can actually do those things. And while I know a lot of people who hold records in various federations and/or compete in various sports and I know a lot of people who can do all of the individual things you mentioned, I don’t think I’ve met anyone who can do all of them.
So… I’m just sayin, you’re setting the bar really, really high.[/quote]
I agree,but I think the gap between elite and average performance is not so big.
For example,average male working hard on his vertical jump would achieve 30 inch jump.40 inch vertical is world-class and its only 10 inches difference.
400 lb. deadlift is easily achieved,but 500 lb. DL is another animal.
[quote]Koing wrote:
You guys must be benching a lot…
For the commerical gyms I go to I rarely see people get one rep at BW let alone for multiple reps, let alone 300lbs!
I’d say for the big 3 (it goes BP, squat, DL right?)
1x bw; 1.5x bw; DL 1.5x bw)
These are all doable and within reason for most people.
I think I’ve only ever seen one guy BP 300lbs at the lunchtime gym. Wheres at my Oly club I have seen this strongman/ PL guy do 220kg and 6reps reps at 180kg raw.
6min mile is quite tough. REMEMBER this isn’t the HS kid that are active and in shape. We’re talking about the mid 20’s late 20’s guy that is not in his peak of conditioning and has been out of sports for a while!
Koing[/quote]
Most males in commercial gyms are either short skinny guys trying to build muscle mass or fat sedentary guys trying to shed fat.They have under-average genetics and should be excluded from this thread.
Vertical jump=30 inches
Squat=400 lb.
Deadlift=500 lb.
Bench=300 lb.
Pull-ups=30 with body weight
Body-composition=200 lb. 10 % bf
Those are my conservative estimtes.
[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
…So most don’t. The OP didn’t ask “What do you think is achieveable by some excuse-making wannabe who only kinda wants to sorta get muscular and strong, but doesn’t really wanna put in the work and might have an injury or might weigh 96 pounds soaking wet or is afraid of the gym and doesn’t wanna get too big and look like Arnold and then later decides they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV?”
…So that’s not the question I answered.
No, the original poster asked:
"What do YOU think are some standards that EVERY healthy male could achieve, naturally and honestly, will good ole’ hard work and some time. I’m not saying easily achieve, but achievable. "
And the numbers that you gave would be world records or near world records for almost half the weight classes out there. A lot of healthy males that are 181# aren’t going to find a 400# bench achievable. And it’s not because they’re not trying hard enough or making mistakes in their training or diet.
Now, obviously, he asked what “YOU think” and you’ve answered what you think and that’s fine. It’s just extremely optimistic and unrealistic unless you know a bunch of people who can actually do those things. And while I know a lot of people who hold records in various federations and/or compete in various sports and I know a lot of people who can do all of the individual things you mentioned, I don’t think I’ve met anyone who can do all of them.
So… I’m just sayin, you’re setting the bar really, really high.[/quote]
Average American is bench pressing ridiciously big weights.
This is because bench press is very popular in USA.
Our average genetic potential for strength is much greater that we believe.
This thread (as well as Croats Unite! and the one with all the pictures of the Balkan region with the old guys drinking in a flood) is proof that BALBO is no troll like hated BALBOS, whose meager 188 posts do not stack up to BALBO’s 822 quality posts.
[quote]mldj wrote:
I don’t agree about the 50+ pullups part. It must be because no one trains pullups like bench pressing, but I haven’t seen someone doing something with close resemblance to pullups for 50 reps. I think the good old 300/400/500 is goal that can be achieved by average-sized guy.[/quote]
Bullcrap! 50+ pull-ups are pure strength-endurance.Its easily trainable.
If you take average male ( around 180 lb.) and pay him 100 000 dollars a year to do hundreds of pull-ups a day,are you saying that in 5 years he couldnt do 55 pull-ups in a row??!!??
[quote]ericbyrnesjr wrote:
This thread (as well as Croats Unite! and the one with all the pictures of the Balkan region with the old guys drinking in a flood) is proof that BALBO is no troll like hated BALBOS, whose meager 188 posts do not stack up to BALBO’s 822 quality posts.[/quote]
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1651028&pageNo=2#bottom
Ha ha ha !!!
I worked on a construction site for years and let me tell you that 40-year old 170 lb. workers with bad low backs from all the over-use and a beer belly couls easily deadlift 400 lb. And with a good program and more rest,they would in half a year deadlift 500 lb.
We are talking about people that smoke 2 packs a day and drink heavily.
I think you are underestimating average potential.
[quote]ericbyrnesjr wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I don’t even know how you attempt to answer this question. Is it what an untrained person can achieve with minimal training? Is it what someone serious about lifting can achieve? This question is so open-ended.
All I know is what I have achieved and the time and effort it took to get there.
I’d agree with this guy. For the most part, I can see what everyone in the thread is getting at. Fifty may be a bit extreme, but I think D_B went high-end as a means of saying that more people could do it if they trained them more. Whether the number is accurate or not…oh wait, doesn’t even matter because this question is ridiculous in the first place.
Everyone has said some truth in here. This whole thread is kinda just spinning wheels.[/quote]
If Bill Gates pay you a million bucks to do 50 pull-ups,you will do 50 pull-ups if you are physicaly healthy.I even bet you would do that even if you have bad shoulders.
[quote]gi2eg wrote:
2x bw deadlift
1.5x bw back squat
1.25-1.5x bw chinup and bench
6.5 minute mile
[/quote]
Old grannies are lifting more than that!
http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/sep/20/powerlifting_granny_be_on_montel16556/?print
[quote]BALBO wrote:
Bullcrap! 50+ pull-ups are pure strength-endurance.Its easily trainable.
If you take average male ( around 180 lb.) and pay him 100 000 dollars a year to do hundreds of pull-ups a day,are you saying that in 5 years he couldnt do 55 pull-ups in a row??!!??[/quote]
So, again, I’m confused about the question in this thread. Now we are talking about a 180 lb male with 5 years of consistent, specific training?
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Wow.
If these were the eighties, I’d expect Dirty Bulk to be a soviet, lying up his sleeve, telling us how strong russians are compared to skinny, imperialistic westerners.
Since we live in the 21 century…I’m just clueless.
50 clean reps under the pull up bar is exactly what’s only achievable by genetically favored folks.
As for the 400 Bench: “Easier” then the pull ups, still unattainable if you have long arms and a slim frame, for example.
And also, most people don’t want to arch like Powerlifters, screw their shoulders and breathe chalk everyday to shoot for higher numers. I think we can establish that this everyday trainee doesn’t have to endure this.
400 lbs for the squat is a “prerequisite” for back-health? Do you know how many guys have blown out their discs with less then that?
I should probably stop now…
-Schwarzfahrer
Dude, he is clueless. The internet, and this site in particular sometimes, is effing hilarious and pathetic.
A guy starts training, maybe hits a 300 bench his first two years and he starts thinking (and posting on internet sites) that 400 is not a problem…until he spends the next 15 years realizing that extra 100lbs might have been beyond his genetic ability. But until then, we have to suffer that type of guy posting on the internet and talking about “wannabes” and such. This shit is really funny. It’s the difference between “theory” and “practice”. “Theory” is what happens on these damn forums most of the time. “Practice” it what occurs in real life. What gets posted on these forums and what occur in the gym rarely intersect.
[/quote]
You dont understand genetic ability.
The guy trying for 15 years for progress from 300 lb. bench to 400 lb. is maybe lacking motivation,time to train(24 hour a day dedication),optimal nutrition,top coaches,top climate,top training atmosphere,top equipment,etc…
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Wow.
If these were the eighties, I’d expect Dirty Bulk to be a soviet, lying up his sleeve, telling us how strong russians are compared to skinny, imperialistic westerners.
Since we live in the 21 century…I’m just clueless.
50 clean reps under the pull up bar is exactly what’s only achievable by genetically favored folks.
As for the 400 Bench: “Easier” then the pull ups, still unattainable if you have long arms and a slim frame, for example.
And also, most people don’t want to arch like Powerlifters, screw their shoulders and breathe chalk everyday to shoot for higher numers. I think we can establish that this everyday trainee doesn’t have to endure this.
400 lbs for the squat is a “prerequisite” for back-health? Do you know how many guys have blown out their discs with less then that?
I should probably stop now…
-Schwarzfahrer[/quote]
You are socializing too much with fitness and aerobics folks.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:
Dirty_Bulk - your info says you weigh 210 lbs. Can you do 50+ pull-ups? And how many people do you know at a similar weight (or any weight at all) that can do that?
My best-ever amount of consecutive pullups was 25@235. My grip tires doing these long before my back does. I wasn’t doing all that much pullup-specific training at the time, and I don’t think that it’s unreasonable whatsoever to assume that a lighter or leaner trainee could double this figure, especially with greater emphasis put on this “event.”
Out of the handful of decent-sized people that I know that have built their backs with lots of pullups, most can rep out these like crazy. To those that use a lot of added weight, an unweighted pullup is nothing. I’m not going to lie and say that I’ve tested them for a rep max, but I’m confident they could achieve a max over 50.
This is really a numbers game. How many people have I seen do 50 pullups? Very few. How many people do I see do pullups at all? Roughly the same amount.
TO ALL:
Not that I should have to explain this on T-Nation, but the fact of the matter is this:
Most people don’t wanna eat 6 or 7 times a day…
Most people don’t wanna do squats or deadlifts…
Most people don’t get 8 hours of sleep every night…
Most people don’t wanna get a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (or more) daily…
Most people don’t wanna do high reps…
Most people don’t wanna do heavy weight…
Most people don’t wanna do cardio…
…So most don’t. The OP didn’t ask “What do you think is achieveable by some excuse-making wannabe who only kinda wants to sorta get muscular and strong, but doesn’t really wanna put in the work and might have an injury or might weigh 96 pounds soaking wet or is afraid of the gym and doesn’t wanna get too big and look like Arnold and then later decides they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV?”
…So that’s not the question I answered.
You didn’t exactly answer the question and I call BULLSHIT. I’ll settle for a video of you achieving all those numbers you ho hum about (with good form) and I’ll let you slide with doing 25 full rep PULL UPS. And before you dismiss me as some “wannabe”, I achieve elite on all the major lifts (except PC which I don’t train) as per that table. And no, I cannot do 50 pull ups - I’m lucky to get 10. And yes, I do train them. And I have no effing idea how fast I could run a mile (assuming I could make it a mile).
50 pull ups. LMFAO.
This internet shit is really hilarious sometimes.
[/quote]
I am 30 year old 200 lb.(20 % bf) alcoholic and I can do 18 pull-ups and 12 chins.I do them about once or twice a week.I have about average athleticism.
Are you saying that by dedicating myself to pull up Spartan regime of training,droping alcohol and body fat,i couldnt in a few years achieve 50 reps? You must be joking!
400 lb. bench press would be a lot tougher.
[quote]BALBO wrote:
I worked on a construction site for years and let me tell you that 40-year old 170 lb. workers with bad low backs from all the over-use and a beer belly couls easily deadlift 400 lb. And with a good program and more rest,they would in half a year deadlift 500 lb.
We are talking about people that smoke 2 packs a day and drink heavily.
I think you are underestimating average potential. [/quote]
Guys on a construction site are generally stronger than guys who work in offices. The construction workers have a stronger base to work from. And let me tell you that I’ve known lots of 40 year old 170# workers with GOOD low backs who couldn’t deadlift 400# without a lot of training.
And there’s a big difference between deadlifting and squatting. The AAU world record deadlift for a 165# man is 620# but the squat world record is 501#.
Of the 500/400/550 estimate, the 550 DL is the one that’s the least off base. Although I think it’s still a bit high… but that might be personal bias because of my own deadlift.