Goals That CAN Be Achieved By Everyone

Training Powerlifting
41

The 50 pull-up thing is ridiculous, even if you allow a person to do chin-ups. I have never seen anyone do 50 pull-ups in person. I understand people can do it but still I have spent a lot of time in the gym seeing as how this is my profession, so it is super rare.

To me that is the same as saying you think everyone can bench their bodyweight 50 times. How many people can bench 200 or even in the NFL how many people do 225 x 50 which is often below bodyweight? Basically no one, and ultimately you can achieve a greater strength on the bench than the pull-up.

Expecting everyone to be able to do a 400 lb bench press is also way off base. Hell I have been training pretty hard for 12 years and I still haven’t done that.

42

In defense of the numbers I posted:

500 squat - I don’t think this is all that outrageous. 400 pounds is prerequisite for anyone with a healthy back and work ethic.

500 dead - this is more realistic than the squat for most. I’ve seen more than a handful of guys on this site and others hit this lift, some who are fairly light.

400 bench - I know its a long way from 300 pounds, but 16 and 17 year olds hit 300 all the time. 400 isn’t gonna happen overnight, but it’ll happen, and you don’t have to look like Dave Tate to do so.

50+ pullups - Any non-fat trainee (and plenty of fat ones) can hit 15-20. By increasing reps and decreasing rest time, this is doable. This isn’t really a strength test, but an endurance test. I don’t care if you can do a pullup with a buick strapped to you, this has to be specifically trained for.

5:30 mile - The mile isn’t that far. This is a brisk jog. If this sounds anywhere near as hard to attain as a 300 bench, contact your cardiologist immediately.

In regards to performing all at once:

There seems to be this attitude among lifters, on this site especially, that as soon as you do a step of steady-state cardio, your musculature literally melts off your body, and your testicles shrink like raisins. A single mile is not the Boston marathon. 5-10 minutes later, your strength is still gonna be there.

43

You have to consider bw guys you can’t just put huge numbers, a 130 lb marathon runner is NOT going to squat 500lbs ever. Were talking about what is achievable to EVERYONE, if you ever walked into a commercial gym you will rarely see a squat and once every few months a guy will bench 300lbs+ if ever.

The average joe isn’t going to alter his life tremendously to reach high goals. So for just the average joe lifting to stay healthy and not going after strength gains I think he could easily get Bench 1x bodyweight, squat 1.5x bodyweight and dead 1.5x bodyweight.

Also 5:30 mile is really damn fast, if you RUN without stopping you can get in the 6’s anyone can do that-I’m somewhat fat and 300+ lbs and I can get in the 7’s-. Most people sadly can’t even run a full mile without stopping, they might have asthma out of shape ext ext. I believe ANYONE can get under 7 min mile but under 6 I don’t see that possible to everyone.

44

Dirty_Bulk - your info says you weigh 210 lbs. Can you do 50+ pull-ups? And how many people do you know at a similar weight (or any weight at all) that can do that?

45

[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
I think you’re making a huge mistake not taking bodyweight and the size of the person into account.[/quote]

Bodyweight is very easily variable. Assuming a height that isn’t abnormal (e.g., not five feet tall), I would imagine that any man can weigh over 200 lbs. without being fat with a few years training and eating. So, since we’re training our hypothetical average healthy male for several years to achieve these numbers anyway, I don’t see what is wrong with using standards of absolute strength rather than relative strength.

46

I wrote up a big reply and deleted it because it really doesn’t matter.

I’m just going to say that I don’t think I know a single person who has achieved all those goals and I know some people who’ve done some pretty amazing things and been very into doing odd athletic things.

47

[quote]Fabius Cunctator wrote:
The Pencil Neck wrote:
I think you’re making a huge mistake not taking bodyweight and the size of the person into account.

Bodyweight is very easily variable. Assuming a height that isn’t abnormal (e.g., not five feet tall), I would imagine that any man can weigh over 200 lbs. without being fat with a few years training and eating. So, since we’re training our hypothetical average healthy male for several years to achieve these numbers anyway, I don’t see what is wrong with using standards of absolute strength rather than relative strength.
[/quote]

So, what numbers do you expect “any” 200# 5’ 10" man to be able to put up?

48

[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
Fabius Cunctator wrote:
The Pencil Neck wrote:
I think you’re making a huge mistake not taking bodyweight and the size of the person into account.

Bodyweight is very easily variable. Assuming a height that isn’t abnormal (e.g., not five feet tall), I would imagine that any man can weigh over 200 lbs. without being fat with a few years training and eating. So, since we’re training our hypothetical average healthy male for several years to achieve these numbers anyway, I don’t see what is wrong with using standards of absolute strength rather than relative strength.

So, what numbers do you expect “any” 200# 5’ 10" man to be able to put up?
[/quote]

I don’t know. I don’t have nearly the knowledge or experience to even hazard a guess. It just seemed to me that if we’re taking an average guy and training him for several years, bodyweight isn’t much of an issue since he will be perfectly capable of gaining it (or losing it when we consider pullups and mile times).

49

[quote]Fabius Cunctator wrote:
The Pencil Neck wrote:
Fabius Cunctator wrote:
The Pencil Neck wrote:
I think you’re making a huge mistake not taking bodyweight and the size of the person into account.

Bodyweight is very easily variable. Assuming a height that isn’t abnormal (e.g., not five feet tall), I would imagine that any man can weigh over 200 lbs. without being fat with a few years training and eating. So, since we’re training our hypothetical average healthy male for several years to achieve these numbers anyway, I don’t see what is wrong with using standards of absolute strength rather than relative strength.

So, what numbers do you expect “any” 200# 5’ 10" man to be able to put up?

I don’t know. I don’t have nearly the knowledge or experience to even hazard a guess. It just seemed to me that if we’re taking an average guy and training him for several years, bodyweight isn’t much of an issue since he will be perfectly capable of gaining it (or losing it when we consider pullups and mile times).
[/quote]

Myself at nearly 6’8 I will never be healthy and strong at 200lbs thats just too light. You can’t just put up plain numbers since there are high variants in bodyweight and height.

50

[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
Dirty_Bulk - your info says you weigh 210 lbs. Can you do 50+ pull-ups? And how many people do you know at a similar weight (or any weight at all) that can do that?[/quote]

My best-ever amount of consecutive pullups was 25@235. My grip tires doing these long before my back does. I wasn’t doing all that much pullup-specific training at the time, and I don’t think that it’s unreasonable whatsoever to assume that a lighter or leaner trainee could double this figure, especially with greater emphasis put on this “event.”

Out of the handful of decent-sized people that I know that have built their backs with lots of pullups, most can rep out these like crazy. To those that use a lot of added weight, an unweighted pullup is nothing. I’m not going to lie and say that I’ve tested them for a rep max, but I’m confident they could achieve a max over 50.

This is really a numbers game. How many people have I seen do 50 pullups? Very few. How many people do I see do pullups at all? Roughly the same amount.

TO ALL:
Not that I should have to explain this on T-Nation, but the fact of the matter is this:

Most people don’t wanna eat 6 or 7 times a day…
Most people don’t wanna do squats or deadlifts…
Most people don’t get 8 hours of sleep every night…
Most people don’t wanna get a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (or more) daily…
Most people don’t wanna do high reps…
Most people don’t wanna do heavy weight…
Most people don’t wanna do cardio…

…So most don’t. The OP didn’t ask “What do you think is achieveable by some excuse-making wannabe who only kinda wants to sorta get muscular and strong, but doesn’t really wanna put in the work and might have an injury or might weigh 96 pounds soaking wet or is afraid of the gym and doesn’t wanna get too big and look like Arnold and then later decides they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV?”

…So that’s not the question I answered.

51

[quote]Dirty_Bulk wrote:
…So most don’t. The OP didn’t ask “What do you think is achieveable by some excuse-making wannabe who only kinda wants to sorta get muscular and strong, but doesn’t really wanna put in the work and might have an injury or might weigh 96 pounds soaking wet or is afraid of the gym and doesn’t wanna get too big and look like Arnold and then later decides they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV?”

…So that’s not the question I answered.[/quote]

No, the original poster asked:
"What do YOU think are some standards that EVERY healthy male could achieve, naturally and honestly, will good ole’ hard work and some time. I’m not saying easily achieve, but achievable. "

And the numbers that you gave would be world records or near world records for almost half the weight classes out there. A lot of healthy males that are 181# aren’t going to find a 400# bench achievable. And it’s not because they’re not trying hard enough or making mistakes in their training or diet.

Now, obviously, he asked what “YOU think” and you’ve answered what you think and that’s fine. It’s just extremely optimistic and unrealistic unless you know a bunch of people who can actually do those things. And while I know a lot of people who hold records in various federations and/or compete in various sports and I know a lot of people who can do all of the individual things you mentioned, I don’t think I’ve met anyone who can do all of them.

So… I’m just sayin, you’re setting the bar really, really high.

52

300 lb bench, 400 lb squat and 500 lb should be doable for adult males without medical problems. That’s assuming they are willing to (or capable of) lose or gain weight to achieve it, put in the necessary time, etc. If you can do the above for multiple sets of high reps, you’se one bad mammajamma as compared to the rest of humanity.

53

[quote]Racarnus wrote:
mldj wrote:
Dirty_Bulk wrote:
mldj wrote:
I don’t agree about the 50+ pullups part. It must be because no one trains pullups like bench pressing, but I haven’t seen someone doing something with close resemblance to pullups for 50 reps.

That’s the thing; the bench press is the most overrated, over worked excercise in American gyms. conversely, the pullup is used by only serious trainees, and even then, used during a much smaller fraction of the training time. I’d say that 50 pullups is a more conservative estimate than a 405 dead or 365 squat, but most of us will not work anywhere near our genetic potential for this excercise.

I beg to differ, my friend. The thing is that I’m one of the guys that really like pullups, I think I’m fairly good at them, and have done them a lot more than deadlifts and squats.
I can do one-arm pullup, and do pullup with 120 lbs, but when it comes to reps, I’ve never done more than 30. And not because it didn’t fit my goals, for quite a lot of time, I was doing pullups with 45 reps in mind as final benchmark. I just couldn’t.
And I have 2.5xBW deadlift after 1/2 year deadlift training.
The funny thing is that I’m 150 lbs, so I would have been a perfect target for proving your theory.
Bottom line - 50 pullups is NOT a conservative estimate for an average guy, not even for above the average.

How long have you been training? Are you nearing the end of your training days? Can you do 50+ reps in multiple sets? Have you tried gradually decreasing the rest intervals?[/quote]

If you’re asking about the pullups, I’ve been doing pullups everyday for about 4 years. I don’t think I’m nearing “the end of my training days”, whatever this should mean. I can do 50+ reps in multiple sets. It’s nothing like doing even 20 consecutive pullups. As for the gradually decreasing rest intervals, I’ve tried and found it didn’t make difference for me.

@Dirty_Bulk
Some of your arguments are not valid. You’re saying that some teenagers are benching 300 - but these guys are like our own Uber_N3wb - not exactly average. And the correlation between going from 200 to 300 and from 300 to 400 isn’t linear. The latter is a lot more difficult.
You’re doing the same assumptions about the other numbers - to say that plenty of guys can do 15-20 pullups, ergo every average guy can do 50 pullups is ridiculuos.

@undeadlift
You’re absolutely right. I realized that the numbers I’ve posted are exactly the numbers I’ve met most often as reccomendations on this forum.

54

[quote]gi2eg wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
All of the numbers you guys mentioned here are biased and based on personal experience and stuff you’ve read. There is no empirical way of determining what goals can be achieved by everyone.

I think everyone knows this[/quote]

It’s my way of describing where this thread is going.

55

Wow.
If these were the eighties, I’d expect Dirty Bulk to be a soviet, lying up his sleeve, telling us how strong russians are compared to skinny, imperialistic westerners.
Since we live in the 21 century…I’m just clueless.
50 clean reps under the pull up bar is exactly what’s only achievable by genetically favored folks.
As for the 400 Bench: “Easier” then the pull ups, still unattainable if you have long arms and a slim frame, for example.
And also, most people don’t want to arch like Powerlifters, screw their shoulders and breathe chalk everyday to shoot for higher numers. I think we can establish that this everyday trainee doesn’t have to endure this.
400 lbs for the squat is a “prerequisite” for back-health? Do you know how many guys have blown out their discs with less then that?
I should probably stop now…

-Schwarzfahrer

56

so as usual the intarwebz shows how people will misunderstand anything in print. i think almost every male on the planet can get to 300lb bench, 400squat, i have less personal experience with deadlifts and pullups so i wont give actual numbers. i would exclude pullups from the test cus obviously heavy guys are working harder. but there ya go. thread over.

our genes are good enough for at least that, remember our genes used to perform reasonably impressive feats of athleticism just so we could eat. i know people now arent very cool/smart/tough, but let’s not sell our genes short.

57

[quote]Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:
Dirty_Bulk - your info says you weigh 210 lbs. Can you do 50+ pull-ups? And how many people do you know at a similar weight (or any weight at all) that can do that?

My best-ever amount of consecutive pullups was 25@235. My grip tires doing these long before my back does. I wasn’t doing all that much pullup-specific training at the time, and I don’t think that it’s unreasonable whatsoever to assume that a lighter or leaner trainee could double this figure, especially with greater emphasis put on this “event.”

Out of the handful of decent-sized people that I know that have built their backs with lots of pullups, most can rep out these like crazy. To those that use a lot of added weight, an unweighted pullup is nothing. I’m not going to lie and say that I’ve tested them for a rep max, but I’m confident they could achieve a max over 50.

This is really a numbers game. How many people have I seen do 50 pullups? Very few. How many people do I see do pullups at all? Roughly the same amount.

TO ALL:
Not that I should have to explain this on T-Nation, but the fact of the matter is this:

Most people don’t wanna eat 6 or 7 times a day…
Most people don’t wanna do squats or deadlifts…
Most people don’t get 8 hours of sleep every night…
Most people don’t wanna get a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (or more) daily…
Most people don’t wanna do high reps…
Most people don’t wanna do heavy weight…
Most people don’t wanna do cardio…

…So most don’t. The OP didn’t ask “What do you think is achieveable by some excuse-making wannabe who only kinda wants to sorta get muscular and strong, but doesn’t really wanna put in the work and might have an injury or might weigh 96 pounds soaking wet or is afraid of the gym and doesn’t wanna get too big and look like Arnold and then later decides they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV?”

…So that’s not the question I answered.[/quote]

You didn’t exactly answer the question and I call BULLSHIT. I’ll settle for a video of you achieving all those numbers you ho hum about (with good form) and I’ll let you slide with doing 25 full rep PULL UPS. And before you dismiss me as some “wannabe”, I achieve elite on all the major lifts (except PC which I don’t train) as per that table. And no, I cannot do 50 pull ups - I’m lucky to get 10. And yes, I do train them. And I have no effing idea how fast I could run a mile (assuming I could make it a mile).

50 pull ups. LMFAO.

This internet shit is really hilarious sometimes.

58

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Wow.
If these were the eighties, I’d expect Dirty Bulk to be a soviet, lying up his sleeve, telling us how strong russians are compared to skinny, imperialistic westerners.
Since we live in the 21 century…I’m just clueless.
50 clean reps under the pull up bar is exactly what’s only achievable by genetically favored folks.
As for the 400 Bench: “Easier” then the pull ups, still unattainable if you have long arms and a slim frame, for example.
And also, most people don’t want to arch like Powerlifters, screw their shoulders and breathe chalk everyday to shoot for higher numers. I think we can establish that this everyday trainee doesn’t have to endure this.
400 lbs for the squat is a “prerequisite” for back-health? Do you know how many guys have blown out their discs with less then that?
I should probably stop now…

-Schwarzfahrer[/quote]

Dude, he is clueless. The internet, and this site in particular sometimes, is effing hilarious and pathetic.

A guy starts training, maybe hits a 300 bench his first two years and he starts thinking (and posting on internet sites) that 400 is not a problem…until he spends the next 15 years realizing that extra 100lbs might have been beyond his genetic ability. But until then, we have to suffer that type of guy posting on the internet and talking about “wannabes” and such. This shit is really funny. It’s the difference between “theory” and “practice”. “Theory” is what happens on these damn forums most of the time. “Practice” it what occurs in real life. What gets posted on these forums and what occur in the gym rarely intersect.

59

50 pull ups is ridiculous.

60

I don’t even know how you attempt to answer this question. Is it what an untrained person can achieve with minimal training? Is it what someone serious about lifting can achieve? This question is so open-ended.

All I know is what I have achieved and the time and effort it took to get there.