Genetics....Do YOU Suck?

Training Bodybuilding
141

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Francois1 wrote:
And I am certainly not gonna waste my time thinking about my genes, which I have no influence on.
[/quote]

This isnt a wise approach. Someone with the bone structure/leverages to get little benefit from barbell bench pressing would be dumb to continue doing it over and over isntead of switching to dumbells. Same for barbell vs smith squats. Your genes do matter and should affect how you approach your precious hobby. You cant influence your genes but you absolutely need to take them into account when choosing how you train AND eat.

edit: that is all assuming that making progress is your goal and you treat your gym time as more than just a social getaway. [/quote]

good post.

142

Asking whether genetic makeup matters for competetive bb-ing is like asking whether it matters for a beauty pageant contestants. Of course it does lol.
That said, however, “bad genes” are no excuse for not getting bigger/stronger/leaner/etc - whatever the goals are. Yes, very few will become the next Coleman or Yates (even with “chemical assistance”), however any healthy individual can improve their physique, get stronger etc.

143

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Francois1 wrote:
And I am certainly not gonna waste my time thinking about my genes, which I have no influence on.
[/quote]

This isnt a wise approach. Someone with the bone structure/leverages to get little benefit from barbell bench pressing would be dumb to continue doing it over and over isntead of switching to dumbells. Same for barbell vs smith squats. Your genes do matter and should affect how you approach your precious hobby. You cant influence your genes but you absolutely need to take them into account when choosing how you train AND eat.

edit: that is all assuming that making progress is your goal and you treat your gym time as more than just a social getaway. [/quote]

I am keen to understand more about this. I understand your point and I thought immediately about how a difference in height would change a lifter’s program design. I’ve always wanted to know what I would be good at (in this pursuit/lifestyle - powerlifting, bodybuilding, strongman etc) and know it’s going to be linked to both my interest and body structure - just wondering how do I learn more about this? How body structure should play a part in my program design? If it’s something like “listen to your body, it comes from experience” etc then yes I’ll accept that and keep working on it. I’ve only been lifting since 2006, and am 6’0 (shit, that doesn’t tell you much, I’m sorry).

144

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Francois1 wrote:
And I am certainly not gonna waste my time thinking about my genes, which I have no influence on.
[/quote]

This isnt a wise approach. Someone with the bone structure/leverages to get little benefit from barbell bench pressing would be dumb to continue doing it over and over isntead of switching to dumbells. Same for barbell vs smith squats. Your genes do matter and should affect how you approach your precious hobby. You cant influence your genes but you absolutely need to take them into account when choosing how you train AND eat.

edit: that is all assuming that making progress is your goal and you treat your gym time as more than just a social getaway. [/quote]

I am keen to understand more about this. I understand your point and I thought immediately about how a difference in height would change a lifter’s program design. I’ve always wanted to know what I would be good at (in this pursuit/lifestyle - powerlifting, bodybuilding, strongman etc) and know it’s going to be linked to both my interest and body structure - just wondering how do I learn more about this? How body structure should play a part in my program design? If it’s something like “listen to your body, it comes from experience” etc then yes I’ll accept that and keep working on it. I’ve only been lifting since 2006, and am 6’0 (shit, that doesn’t tell you much, I’m sorry).
[/quote]

Its not as complicated as you (may) think.

What I meant by what I said is that at some point you need to become aware enough to know what works for you and what doesnt. It means that every single one of the best streght coaches in the world can tell you that barbell shrugs are best for trap mass. But over the years youve found out that dumbell shrugs make your traps grow best. Something about YOUR condition makes that so.

As far as strength sports vs bodybuilding vs endurance sports. Well thats mostly due to bone structure and muscle fiber make up. But unless youre going to make a living doing any of them just do what you enjoy doing. But then again I enjoy bodybuilding because Im somewhat good at it. But Im also sure I’d love strongman stuff if I had the opportunity to try it, even though Im short with small joints.

Youre 6’ tall. Congrats. You can find people that height who have excelled in every sport imaginable lol

145

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Francois1 wrote:
And I am certainly not gonna waste my time thinking about my genes, which I have no influence on.
[/quote]

This isnt a wise approach. Someone with the bone structure/leverages to get little benefit from barbell bench pressing would be dumb to continue doing it over and over isntead of switching to dumbells. Same for barbell vs smith squats. Your genes do matter and should affect how you approach your precious hobby. You cant influence your genes but you absolutely need to take them into account when choosing how you train AND eat.

edit: that is all assuming that making progress is your goal and you treat your gym time as more than just a social getaway. [/quote]

I am keen to understand more about this. I understand your point and I thought immediately about how a difference in height would change a lifter’s program design. I’ve always wanted to know what I would be good at (in this pursuit/lifestyle - powerlifting, bodybuilding, strongman etc) and know it’s going to be linked to both my interest and body structure - just wondering how do I learn more about this? How body structure should play a part in my program design? If it’s something like “listen to your body, it comes from experience” etc then yes I’ll accept that and keep working on it. I’ve only been lifting since 2006, and am 6’0 (shit, that doesn’t tell you much, I’m sorry).
[/quote]

Its not as complicated as you (may) think.

What I meant by what I said is that at some point you need to become aware enough to know what works for you and what doesnt. It means that every single one of the best streght coaches in the world can tell you that barbell shrugs are best for trap mass. But over the years youve found out that dumbell shrugs make your traps grow best. Something about YOUR condition makes that so.

As far as strength sports vs bodybuilding vs endurance sports. Well thats mostly due to bone structure and muscle fiber make up. But unless youre going to make a living doing any of them just do what you enjoy doing. But then again I enjoy bodybuilding because Im somewhat good at it. But Im also sure I’d love strongman stuff if I had the opportunity to try it, even though Im short with small joints.

Youre 6’ tall. Congrats. You can find people that height who have excelled in every sport imaginable lol [/quote]

Thanks Bonez very much. I will experiment with variations of DB/BB to find the ones that give better results. I’ve been sticking to the basic exercise (as simple as possible) and ensuring the major muscle (in my definition chest/back/quads/hams) and secondary muscle groups/support muscles (in my definition shoulders, bis, calves etc) are worked out too. My biggest fear (?) at the moment is program design, but I’ve got to try variations to see what works.

I don’t think I could make a living from any of the endeavors but I enjoy the workouts needed for bodybuilding (the higher rep ranges, working muscles through many sets), I like the feeling of lifting heavy weights and reaching PRs (PL) and the uniqueness of strongman (prowlers, farmers walk etc). I just like them all.

I saw your rack pull (or DL) video and was amazed at the lift (awed) and saw you had development also (the tricep photo) so I was thinking it’s possible to be advanced in both. That’s what I’ll be gunning my “genetics” for. Thanks again.

146

My arm genetics blow.

Good thread!

147

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Francois1 wrote:
RONNIE COLEMAN used to say bodybuilding was HIS HOBBY.[/quote]

Ronnie was also a master of understatement: “light weight” for him would be like the ebola virus to most trainees. In other words, one dude’s hobby is another dude’s lifestyle. The problems begin when the hobbyists feel like they are in a position to argue. Without being too philosophical, that’s like standing at the base of a mountain and arguing with the guy who has reached the summit about what the view looks like, when all ‘ground guy’ has to go by is the postcard of the mountain-top he just bought from the gift shop.

The dude at the top isn’t wrong, because he has reached the top, experienced hardship and accomplished something. BUT…the guy at the bottom doesn’t consider himself in the wrong either because he thinks that he can see the view even though never actually saw it first-hand.

Sometimes gift shops sell postcards of lots of different mountains. Best not to assume you’re right until you’ve climbed the right mountain, seen the view and sniffed the air…[/quote]

Damn, dude. That was deep.

148

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Francois1 wrote:
And I am certainly not gonna waste my time thinking about my genes, which I have no influence on.
[/quote]

This isnt a wise approach. Someone with the bone structure/leverages to get little benefit from barbell bench pressing would be dumb to continue doing it over and over isntead of switching to dumbells. Same for barbell vs smith squats. Your genes do matter and should affect how you approach your precious hobby. You cant influence your genes but you absolutely need to take them into account when choosing how you train AND eat.

edit: that is all assuming that making progress is your goal and you treat your gym time as more than just a social getaway. [/quote]

I am keen to understand more about this. I understand your point and I thought immediately about how a difference in height would change a lifter’s program design. I’ve always wanted to know what I would be good at (in this pursuit/lifestyle - powerlifting, bodybuilding, strongman etc) and know it’s going to be linked to both my interest and body structure - just wondering how do I learn more about this? How body structure should play a part in my program design? If it’s something like “listen to your body, it comes from experience” etc then yes I’ll accept that and keep working on it. I’ve only been lifting since 2006, and am 6’0 (shit, that doesn’t tell you much, I’m sorry).
[/quote]

Its not as complicated as you (may) think.

What I meant by what I said is that at some point you need to become aware enough to know what works for you and what doesnt. It means that every single one of the best streght coaches in the world can tell you that barbell shrugs are best for trap mass. But over the years youve found out that dumbell shrugs make your traps grow best. Something about YOUR condition makes that so.

As far as strength sports vs bodybuilding vs endurance sports. Well thats mostly due to bone structure and muscle fiber make up. But unless youre going to make a living doing any of them just do what you enjoy doing. But then again I enjoy bodybuilding because Im somewhat good at it. But Im also sure I’d love strongman stuff if I had the opportunity to try it, even though Im short with small joints.

Youre 6’ tall. Congrats. You can find people that height who have excelled in every sport imaginable lol [/quote]

Thanks Bonez very much. I will experiment with variations of DB/BB to find the ones that give better results. I’ve been sticking to the basic exercise (as simple as possible) and ensuring the major muscle (in my definition chest/back/quads/hams) and secondary muscle groups/support muscles (in my definition shoulders, bis, calves etc) are worked out too. My biggest fear (?) at the moment is program design, but I’ve got to try variations to see what works.

I don’t think I could make a living from any of the endeavors but I enjoy the workouts needed for bodybuilding (the higher rep ranges, working muscles through many sets), I like the feeling of lifting heavy weights and reaching PRs (PL) and the uniqueness of strongman (prowlers, farmers walk etc). I just like them all.

I saw your rack pull (or DL) video and was amazed at the lift (awed) and saw you had development also (the tricep photo) so I was thinking it’s possible to be advanced in both. That’s what I’ll be gunning my “genetics” for. Thanks again.[/quote]

Yes its possible to be big and strong at the same time. Im pretty sure that almost everyone who lifts weights wants to be big AND strong.

149

Speaking of genetics, has anyone actually seen before and after pics of someone with crappy calves after a year or 2 of training eventually having great calves? I haven’t…

150

No matter how hard I train or how impeccable my diet is, the fact still remains that for most of my life I have been severely overweight ( 110 kg in my teens) and that even though I train my ass off now, it seems my adipocytes are far more receptive towards a caloric surplus than my muscle cells.

151

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Speaking of genetics, has anyone actually seen before and after pics of someone with crappy calves after a year or 2 of training eventually having great calves? I haven’t…[/quote]

This isn’t 100% related to your post, but I recall some while back somebody gave an example of high insertion point calves and low insertion point calves on BBers (the examples being Dexter Jackson and Dorian Yates, I believe) and that while someone with high insertion points (sigh) will never have calves as big as Dorian’s, you can still make improvements.

…so maybe look at early pics of Dexter and compare with more recent ones? I’m going off the assumption that high inserted calves = bad calf genetics.

152

quote: Speaking of genetics, has anyone actually seen before and after pics of someone with crappy calves after a year or 2 of training eventually having great calves? I haven’t…

Me neither (on normal people). Only have seen it on some pro’s but a lot of them use implants. If your insertion is really high, there is nothing you can do.

quote: I’m going off the assumption that high inserted calves = bad calf genetics.

Yes, primarily the insertion plays the most important role and secondly how full is the muscle belly.

153

[quote]desolator wrote:
quote: Speaking of genetics, has anyone actually seen before and after pics of someone with crappy calves after a year or 2 of training eventually having great calves? I haven’t…

Me neither (on normal people). Only have seen it on some pro’s but a lot of them use implants. If your insertion is really high, there is nothing you can do.

[/quote]

A lot of them? No. Youre a moron. You are constantly posting about shit you know nothing about

Which bodybuilders have implants? Enlighten us.

[quote]
quote: I’m going off the assumption that high inserted calves = bad calf genetics.

Yes, primarily the insertion plays the most important role and secondly how full is the muscle belly.[/quote]

154

[quote]desolator wrote:

Me neither (on normal people). Only have seen it on some pro’s but a lot of them use implants. [/quote]

No. No they don’t. You had Shawn Ray alone accusing Flex wheeler of it in the 90’s. Meanwhile, his calves did not look like implants and Shawn Ray is often known to be full of shit.

What other pro do you know of that was accused of this?

155

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]desolator wrote:

Me neither (on normal people). Only have seen it on some pro’s but a lot of them use implants. [/quote]

No. No they don’t. You had Shawn Ray alone accusing Flex wheeler of it in the 90’s. Meanwhile, his calves did not look like implants and Shawn Ray is often known to be full of shit.

What other pro do you know of that was accused of this?[/quote]

And Flex offered to get his legs X-Rayed if Shawn paid for it. That obviously never happened.

156

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]desolator wrote:
quote: Speaking of genetics, has anyone actually seen before and after pics of someone with crappy calves after a year or 2 of training eventually having great calves? I haven’t…

Me neither (on normal people). Only have seen it on some pro’s but a lot of them use implants. If your insertion is really high, there is nothing you can do.

[/quote]

A lot of them? No. Youre a moron. You are constantly posting about shit you know nothing about

Which bodybuilders have implants? Enlighten us.

Ok maybe I made a mistake and not A LOT of them do, but some that have really bad insertions may do. Now since you told me a moron, I call you a smartass. I simply made a reference, the whole point in my post was that calf development is greatly influenced by genetics, which is true. If you don’t like my posts, then you are free to not read them. It is not that there exists something you don’t already know to learn.

157

[quote]desolator wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]desolator wrote:
quote: Speaking of genetics, has anyone actually seen before and after pics of someone with crappy calves after a year or 2 of training eventually having great calves? I haven’t…

Me neither (on normal people). Only have seen it on some pro’s but a lot of them use implants. If your insertion is really high, there is nothing you can do.

[/quote]

A lot of them? No. Youre a moron. You are constantly posting about shit you know nothing about

Which bodybuilders have implants? Enlighten us.

Ok maybe I made a mistake and not A LOT of them do, but some that have really bad insertions may do. .[/quote]

Names?

158

[quote]evo2008 wrote:

Exactly, your genetics are YOUR genetics, so there will be huge natural variations. Bear with me rather than blindly dismissing what I am saying. You need to consider your biological age as opposed to your chronological age. I knew kids who had stubbled beards when they were 12 - are you telling me they would peak for hypertrophy at the same age as a kid who didn’t even start shaving until he was 18? No way. Some people are genetically programmed to die young, others are genetically programmed for longevity. Why can’t some people be genetically pre-disposed to build more muscle mass in their 30’s? Some people are biologically 25 when they are 30 (me) and others are 40 when they are 30.[/quote]

Sorry if this has been beaten to death, just reading through the thread now.

You are pretty off base. Some people grow body/facial hair earlier because that is just how their family/ethnicity is. For example, my background is Italian, I started shaving when I was like 13, as did the other men in my family going back in history I am sure. My family also has a history of longevity, with relatives still alive and independent in their 90’s. Also, I lost my first teeth late, and got my adult teeth late compared to my peers. So by your logic, I am both going to die relatively young and relatively old? It is FAR more complex than that unfortunately!

159

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]desolator wrote:

Me neither (on normal people). Only have seen it on some pro’s but a lot of them use implants. [/quote]

No. No they don’t. You had Shawn Ray alone accusing Flex wheeler of it in the 90’s. Meanwhile, his calves did not look like implants and Shawn Ray is often known to be full of shit.

What other pro do you know of that was accused of this?[/quote]

Shawn Ray was an ass and jealous of Flex’s superiority.

160

I don’t have names, but I have heard many rumors about it. It’s not like they are going to examine someone about. The most called name for that is indeed Flex Wheeler, there are synthol claims about him in his shoulders too. Even if you know ALL the bodybuilders that exist and know that NOONE syntholed, you really have to bash me for it? How can I possibly examine them? There was a great change to them that it was plausible that they were implants.

Also, can you prove that some other pro’s, like Milos Sarcev did NOT used syntherol?