Didn’t some studies showed that explosivness peaks at about 20’s and strength peaks at thirties?
[quote]evo2008 wrote:
You say it can’t be in your 30’s and I will consider that and see how I get on. I never said I haven’t build any muscle mass in my 20’s, simply that I have started getting much stronger recently.[/quote]
Could it be just because youve realised that those times were wasted and now your putting a whole-hearted effort into your training to ‘make up for lost times’. Like wat X and to some extent yourself, was saying, the only reason someone would be making “better” gains in their 30s would be:
- making up for lost times
- more money
- greater knowledge/better supps
Ceterus paribus (love using that) - due to the hormonal profile of being younger, in addition to greater cell division, it is safe to say someone in their early 20s, not reliant on chemical means, would see greater gains (lean muscle mass) than someone in their 30s (again, assuming same genetics, same metabolism, same routine… same person?!).
BUT… your ‘flogging a dead horse’. Noone will ever know whether or not someone would gain better or not, but presumptions can be made based on how much we know about the human body, hormones, motor pattern development etc.
[quote]desolator wrote:
Didn’t some studies showed that explosivness peaks at about 20’s and strength peaks at thirties?[/quote]
Was that for untrained individuals though? I heard you don’t hit your full muscle mass until your 30 but i don’t see it as being relevant if you have been trying to add muscle since you were 18. I would look more mature and permanent in your early 30’s though, if you were training until then.
The missing factor in these studies is always bodybuilding lol, they are always on lay people.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You may have laypeople claim they gain better in their 30’s, but this is usually NOT coming from someone extremely developed or it is coming from someone who is misjudging a decrease in metabolism (allowing easier weight gain) for some magical change in how their body works.
Also, many people lack the discipline to even stick to a serious work out schedule until they are older which again causes them to assume things somehow are working better when the truth is, had they worked their asses off 20 years before that and ate more, they would have made way more progress.
This again goes back to people wasting the best years of their growth potential with many claiming they have “bad genetics” when what they really have is a fucked up work ethic.
[/quote]
As one of the more vocal “O35” lifters in BB Forum, let me address this.
Professor X is spot on.
I lifted in my early-mid 20’s. At the time I played league hockey and rowed college crew. My lifting was not for bodybuilding, it was to supplement my chosen sports. I certainly wasn’t eating to gain, in fact, I was trying to make weight most of the time with crew.
The dedication was there (trying rowing college crew and all involved with that, work for food, and maintain a “high-3” GPA in physical sciences), but the diet and lifting “style” was not. However, my ‘recovery’ was optimal. My body has always responded quickly to whatever stimulus exerted.
Enter life and a 10 year hiatus from daily weight training. Then hitting the weights again with the goal of gaining mass.
Besides having to deal with life in general (career, wife, kids, death, money stress), the FIRST thing one notices is ones recovery is diminished. Think of all the baseline mental energy (which affects physical engergy) that is burned.
Second: Knowing that when I was younger and my body responded quickly to stimulus, I can DEFINITELY say that my body is responding SLOWER to stimulus for the simple fact the hormones are not there (on top of everything else).
I’ve been gauging my progress against a few younger people on these boards and who I know personally who have excellent drive, consistency, strong work ethic, and eat well. I lift as much or more, definitely eat more, and as or more consistent with training and am just keeping up with or slightly outpacing them.
Given the response I’m getting (for my age) I’m convinced if I were 15 years younger with the same goal, I’d have left all of them in the dust (and I can say that I’ve always been ‘goal driven’ and have been good if not great in pretty much everything I’ve set my mind to (ie competitive and not a schmuck). This is where ‘lifestyle’ and ‘all-in attitude’ actually makes a difference.
The only reason I’m making progress now is because of sheer determination and erring on the side of ‘too much food’.
My genetics haven’t changed, but my body’s response has.
Think of genetics like “the growing season” for a gardiner. You have a window of about 4 months to grow vegetables. Think of ‘hours of sunlight’ as your hormonal profile.
If you start optimally in a greenhouse mid-spring and transplant at the end of spring, then water appropriately and have a nice consistent summer, feeding the plants on schedule, you’re going to have some big-assed fucking cucumbers and canteloupes at the end of the summer.
Given the same seed, if you plant them mid-july, by time September comes around, you may still have some nice vegetables, but the ‘optimal growing window’ was not long enough and sunlight has been waning since June, so the fruits/vegs are not as big as they could have been.
The genetics of the seeds didn’t change, but the ‘optimal window’ to express those genes has expired.
If you want to optimize the expression of your genes, start early.
I actually think I have pretty good genetics for this, but my 'optimal window has closed or just about to. Maybe that means I only get to 20" arms instead of 22". Maybe my legs only get to 30" instead of 32". I don’t know, but that’s my interpretation of ‘genetics’. You can have them, but they’re meaningless unless you optimize your potential expression of them.
I see the window as going past 30, probably at least hitting 40. Isn’t Jay Cutler 36 or so right now? Dex was…38? 39? when he won the O in 2008 as well.
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
I see the window as going past 30, probably at least hitting 40. Isn’t Jay Cutler 36 or so right now? Dex was…38? 39? when he won the O in 2008 as well.[/quote]
Jay and the others built the vast majority of their muscle when they were younger. They’ve added mass later and in their 30’s, but not at the rate as the younger years.
The fact that they have certain drugs and other protocols at that level that allow them to express the potential of their genes (coupled with their professional level of competitiveness) allows them to grow and refine as well as they do (in addition to being genetically predisposed to be pro-bodybuilders in the first place).
They have access to food, equipment, supplements, trainers, and inside knowledge (plus experience) that allows them to make the most of their genetic profiles than 99.(many nines)% of the rest of the world’s population. They have the resources to squeeze every last bit of potential that they can and take advantage of those resources.
10, 20 years from now as we learn more about DNA and genetics and technology to unlock the human genome, I predict bodybuilders will be even bigger and freakier than now. They’ll still have to start lifting early.
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
If my genetic make up would suck I wouldn’t be here. A year ago I had hit the 200lbs, not a pretty sight… it took me around 6000 kcal a day to get there. My body adapted and now I can maintain my bodyweight easily with 3000 kcal which is around 210lbs nowadays.
[/quote]
Whoa whoa whoa. My mind just got blown. This is the first I’ve ever heard about something like this even being possible. Is this a rare case or normal? I always thought if you were eating tons of calories to get big, you’d always have to eat tons of calories to stay big.
I have a fast metabolism and have been second guessing my training because I am not willing to eat 5,000 or 6,000 calories a day for the rest of my life just to maintain. My genetics suck balls ( fast metab, super thin bone structure, rosacea) but this post gave me hope.
[quote]Eveson wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
If my genetic make up would suck I wouldn’t be here. A year ago I had hit the 200lbs, not a pretty sight… it took me around 6000 kcal a day to get there. My body adapted and now I can maintain my bodyweight easily with 3000 kcal which is around 210lbs nowadays.
[/quote]
Whoa whoa whoa. My mind just got blown. This is the first I’ve ever heard about something like this even being possible. Is this a rare case or normal? I always thought if you were eating tons of calories to get big, you’d always have to eat tons of calories to stay big.
I have a fast metabolism and have been second guessing my training because I am not willing to eat 5,000 or 6,000 calories a day for the rest of my life just to maintain. My genetics suck balls ( fast metab, super thin bone structure, rosacea) but this post gave me hope.[/quote]
WTF? So you have been stagnating because you fear the idea of having to eat 5,000cals a day to maintain the weight?
Why are you here?
It may take less calories to MAINTAIN a higher weight as an intermediate than it took to gain that size initially but we are not talking about somehow needing 1,000cals a day vs 5,000…and all people aren’t alike anyway. If you are so mentally disturbed by the act of eating that this alone has kept you from gaining, you are in the wrong fucking activity.
It would be very hard for me to eat 5,000 calories a day without feeling like puking/actually puking but I would be willing to try. My rosacea turns my face red if I eat over 4,000 calories (I’m still looking for a specific food trigger) and the thought of feeling sick and having a red face all the time is a bit of a turn off.
I hope you can understand that the thought of going through a couple years of hell and then maintaining my ideal bodyweight just by eating 3,000 calories a day (something I can do easily) is so much better than the thought of a life filled with nausea and not wanting to see my reflection in the mirror.
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
I see the window as going past 30, probably at least hitting 40. Isn’t Jay Cutler 36 or so right now? Dex was…38? 39? when he won the O in 2008 as well.[/quote]
lol. dont compare regular people to Mr O winners using thousands of dollars worth of drugs per year. TRT is one thing but taking further than that is a whole different ball game.
[quote]Eveson wrote:
It would be very hard for me to eat 5,000 calories a day without feeling like puking/actually puking but I would be willing to try. My rosacea turns my face red if I eat over 4,000 calories (I’m still looking for a specific food trigger) and the thought of feeling sick and having a red face all the time is a bit of a turn off.
I hope you can understand that the thought of going through a couple years of hell and then maintaining my ideal bodyweight just by eating 3,000 calories a day (something I can do easily) is so much better than the thought of a life filled with nausea and not wanting to see my reflection in the mirror.[/quote]
See your mindset is totally different then mine is, I see it as if i have to eat 5k cals to maintain bodyweight then im going to figure out a way to eat 5000 cals and maintain my bodyweight. You can try and justify failure by blaming it on not wanting to feel nauseous but your just cheating yourself in the end. Everything truly amazing is worth suffering for and if more people realised this there would be more champions, heroes and idols walking around instead of a select few.
By the way my genetics are fantastic.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
I see the window as going past 30, probably at least hitting 40. Isn’t Jay Cutler 36 or so right now? Dex was…38? 39? when he won the O in 2008 as well.[/quote]
lol. dont compare regular people to Mr O winners using thousands of dollars worth of drugs per year. TRT is one thing but taking further than that is a whole different ball game. [/quote]
Yeah, you’re right. That’s a little bit of too extreme of an example.
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]Eveson wrote:
It would be very hard for me to eat 5,000 calories a day without feeling like puking/actually puking but I would be willing to try. My rosacea turns my face red if I eat over 4,000 calories (I’m still looking for a specific food trigger) and the thought of feeling sick and having a red face all the time is a bit of a turn off.
I hope you can understand that the thought of going through a couple years of hell and then maintaining my ideal bodyweight just by eating 3,000 calories a day (something I can do easily) is so much better than the thought of a life filled with nausea and not wanting to see my reflection in the mirror.[/quote]
See your mindset is totally different then mine is, I see it as if i have to eat 5k cals to maintain bodyweight then im going to figure out a way to eat 5000 cals and maintain my bodyweight. You can try and justify failure by blaming it on not wanting to feel nauseous but your just cheating yourself in the end. Everything truly amazing is worth suffering for and if more people realised this there would be more champions, heroes and idols walking around instead of a select few.
By the way my genetics are fantastic.[/quote]
I agree, those willing to suffer are more likely to be champions.
My original post should have just been limited to this:
“Hi, I am new to training. This is the first I’ve ever heard about something like this even being possible. Is this a rare case or normal? I always thought if you were eating tons of calories to get big, you’d always have to eat tons of calories to stay big.”
I should have left all personal information out if I wanted a straight answer and to avoid being personally attacked by the Prof. I will just stick to the beginners forum. MY BAD!
[quote]Eveson wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
If my genetic make up would suck I wouldn’t be here. A year ago I had hit the 200lbs, not a pretty sight… it took me around 6000 kcal a day to get there. My body adapted and now I can maintain my bodyweight easily with 3000 kcal which is around 210lbs nowadays.
[/quote]
Whoa whoa whoa. My mind just got blown. This is the first I’ve ever heard about something like this even being possible. Is this a rare case or normal? I always thought if you were eating tons of calories to get big, you’d always have to eat tons of calories to stay big.
I have a fast metabolism and have been second guessing my training because I am not willing to eat 5,000 or 6,000 calories a day for the rest of my life just to maintain. My genetics suck balls ( fast metab, super thin bone structure, rosacea) but this post gave me hope.[/quote]
Set points… set points… set points. Why do you think it’s recommended that you stay at a certain bodyweight and strength levels for a period of time before lowering your bodyfat?
[quote]Eveson wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]Eveson wrote:
It would be very hard for me to eat 5,000 calories a day without feeling like puking/actually puking but I would be willing to try. My rosacea turns my face red if I eat over 4,000 calories (I’m still looking for a specific food trigger) and the thought of feeling sick and having a red face all the time is a bit of a turn off.
I hope you can understand that the thought of going through a couple years of hell and then maintaining my ideal bodyweight just by eating 3,000 calories a day (something I can do easily) is so much better than the thought of a life filled with nausea and not wanting to see my reflection in the mirror.[/quote]
See your mindset is totally different then mine is, I see it as if i have to eat 5k cals to maintain bodyweight then im going to figure out a way to eat 5000 cals and maintain my bodyweight. You can try and justify failure by blaming it on not wanting to feel nauseous but your just cheating yourself in the end. Everything truly amazing is worth suffering for and if more people realised this there would be more champions, heroes and idols walking around instead of a select few.
By the way my genetics are fantastic.[/quote]
I agree, those willing to suffer are more likely to be champions.
My original post should have just been limited to this:
“Hi, I am new to training. This is the first I’ve ever heard about something like this even being possible. Is this a rare case or normal? I always thought if you were eating tons of calories to get big, you’d always have to eat tons of calories to stay big.”
I should have left all personal information out if I wanted a straight answer and to avoid being personally attacked by the Prof. I will just stick to the beginners forum. MY BAD![/quote]
Funny how many ppl come on here, ask for a question, say something stupid - get shutdown and put in their place - BUT instead of going ‘oh. i see how stupid that was.’ and asking something well thought they just run away.
“Oh no! The big bad professor on the other side of the world said a swear to me” *cries.
Grow some fucking balls boys… second thoughts. Run along. Less of you, less stupid questions.
[quote]Eveson wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]Eveson wrote:
It would be very hard for me to eat 5,000 calories a day without feeling like puking/actually puking but I would be willing to try. My rosacea turns my face red if I eat over 4,000 calories (I’m still looking for a specific food trigger) and the thought of feeling sick and having a red face all the time is a bit of a turn off.
I hope you can understand that the thought of going through a couple years of hell and then maintaining my ideal bodyweight just by eating 3,000 calories a day (something I can do easily) is so much better than the thought of a life filled with nausea and not wanting to see my reflection in the mirror.[/quote]
See your mindset is totally different then mine is, I see it as if i have to eat 5k cals to maintain bodyweight then im going to figure out a way to eat 5000 cals and maintain my bodyweight. You can try and justify failure by blaming it on not wanting to feel nauseous but your just cheating yourself in the end. Everything truly amazing is worth suffering for and if more people realised this there would be more champions, heroes and idols walking around instead of a select few.
By the way my genetics are fantastic.[/quote]
I agree, those willing to suffer are more likely to be champions.
My original post should have just been limited to this:
“Hi, I am new to training. This is the first I’ve ever heard about something like this even being possible. Is this a rare case or normal? I always thought if you were eating tons of calories to get big, you’d always have to eat tons of calories to stay big.”
I should have left all personal information out if I wanted a straight answer and to avoid being personally attacked by the Prof. I will just stick to the beginners forum. MY BAD![/quote]
It’s looking for a solution and doing something with it that will give you the result you’re looking for. Instead you’re getting upset and emotional, that won’t help.
Get up or stay down, it’s your choice.
[quote]Eveson wrote:
It would be very hard for me to eat 5,000 calories a day without feeling like puking/actually puking but I would be willing to try. My rosacea turns my face red if I eat over 4,000 calories (I’m still looking for a specific food trigger) and the thought of feeling sick and having a red face all the time is a bit of a turn off.
I hope you can understand that the thought of going through a couple years of hell and then maintaining my ideal bodyweight just by eating 3,000 calories a day (something I can do easily) is so much better than the thought of a life filled with nausea and not wanting to see my reflection in the mirror.[/quote]
LOL at “hell”…as if the rest of us don’t feel nauseated at times. I can eat more now because I forced my body to accept more. I used to feel like throwing up eating a bowl of cereal in the morning in junior high. That is how “delicate” my stomach was. Just because the rest of us don’t sit around complaining and bitching about every short coming doesn’t mean we didn’t have them.
It means we weren’t PUSSY enough to allow that to hold us back.
Grow some ballz.
I’m not emotional or upset. I was just being sarcastic. I am new to training so of course I am going to have stupid questions. But I don’t think asking if it’s normal for someone to go from needing 6000 calories to grow to 3000 to maintain is a stupid question. Didn’t mean to hijack this thread either.
[quote]Eveson wrote:
I’m not emotional or upset. I was just being sarcastic. I am new to training so of course I am going to have stupid questions. But I don’t think asking if it’s normal for someone to go from needing 6000 calories to grow to 3000 to maintain is a stupid question. Didn’t mean to hijack this thread either.[/quote]
Then you’ve got some reading to do.
[quote]Eveson wrote:
I’m not emotional or upset. I was just being sarcastic. I am new to training so of course I am going to have stupid questions. But I don’t think asking if it’s normal for someone to go from needing 6000 calories to grow to 3000 to maintain is a stupid question. Didn’t mean to hijack this thread either.[/quote]
You clearly made the implication that eating more was what was holding you back. People like you don’t make much progress. You are the type to sit around and bitch and moan about every excuse you can think of…like using a freaking skin condition like rosacea as a hindrance to your physical goals. if it wasn’t that, it would be something else…like using nausea as a reason to not eat more.
To this day I have to time my meals around how my stomach feels. Once again, why the hell do so many of you think it was so easy for the rest of us?