Genetics....Do YOU Suck?

Guys, since one cannot change his genetics, isn’t it a waste of time to consider them? Take myself as an example, I want to get as big as possible. What will do to that purpose if I sit down and cry down to my genetics.? The only thing that matters is to see if there was progress, to adjust things and in case of stalling get things moving again.

And lastly, since most of the human features seem to follow the Gaussian Distribution, there will be marathon runners, but there will also be people who will have the POTENTIAL to be ultra swooooooooooooooole. Common sense :frowning:

Good thread.

I think attitude is important here, certain types of people will very quickly blame their lack of progress on genetics and very often give up or resign themselves to being small forever whilst others will tinker, work harder and absorb every bit of information till things fall into place.

I know guys personally who were moaning about only adding 2lbs over a 6 month bulk, even with the best creatine and supplements money can buy. The supposed reason for their failed bulk was that they were ‘hardgainers,’ nothing to do the fact that they followed an iphone workout or never really pushed themselves.

I too had a slow start, infact I did pretty much everything wrong for several years, the only two things I had going for me was that I was;
-extremely goal driven
-and had a bit of brains

…had anyone said to me ‘you don’t have the genetics to weigh x amount’ (and it did happen) I would bite their head off. I’ve finally got into my stride more recently and I think I’ve surprised alot of people.

[quote]desolator wrote:
Guys, since one cannot change his genetics, isn’t it a waste of time to consider them?([/quote]

At least from my perspective it is not a waste of time. If you venture over to some advanced boards there are dozens of guys on each “going for their card” and doing things drug wise, financially, social sabotage etc to pursue that or other equally unrealistic goals. When it becomes a detriment to that persons life is when genetics do need to be discussed and considered. People are going to misread that as “you suck just give up” but so be it.

For regular guys just concerned about the best they can do and can be realistic about things… yeah not a big deal and they will let the cards fall where they may. People that aim to compete or walk around with a competition worthy physique need to be aware of their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to this.

If you are talking about competitive bodybuilding, hell yes genetics mean everything. If someone has his bicep insertion at the middle of his upper arm (stretched out example), he is wasting his time with BB. I just pointed out when someone just wants to get really jacked and not compete, he has nothing to gain considering his genetics.

[quote]desolator wrote:
If you are talking about competitive bodybuilding, hell yes genetics mean everything. If someone has his bicep insertion at the middle of his upper arm (stretched out example), he is wasting his time with BB. I just pointed out when someone just wants to get really jacked and not compete, he has nothing to gain considering his genetics.[/quote]

Agreed not everyone is looking to place first in the Olympia by the time they’re 40

[quote]mattho wrote:
I think a lot of people who have good potential and good genetics are pretty big even if they don’t lift. Usually big hands, tall, large skeletal structure. They may even dwarf someone who has been lifting for a while just on their large skeletal structure and natural musculature.[/quote]

For everyone of those, there is some slender really lean kid who doesn’t have big joints who can turn into Flex Wheeler. You will not know who has it in them until they put significant effort towards it for years.

“Genetics” does not just refer to what someone presents as with zero training. It also refers to how a person responds to training once all pieces are in place.

Yes, some people show early signs of being a freak. Kai Greene, Vic Richards, and people like that grew so fast that no one could doubt their genetics.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]mattho wrote:
I think a lot of people who have good potential and good genetics are pretty big even if they don’t lift. Usually big hands, tall, large skeletal structure. They may even dwarf someone who has been lifting for a while just on their large skeletal structure and natural musculature.[/quote]

For everyone of those, there is some slender really lean kid who doesn’t have big joints who can turn into Flex Wheeler. You will not know who has it in them until they put significant effort towards it for years.

“Genetics” does not just refer to what someone presents as with zero training. It also refers to how a person responds to training once all pieces are in place.

Yes, some people show early signs of being a freak. Kai Greene, Vic Richards, and people like that grew so fast that no one could doubt their genetics.[/quote]

Very true. KingBeef comes to mind. I just saw his before picture and their is no way in hell I could of predicted he would look the way he does now. Different people respond differently to stimuli be it training, calories, or drugs.

I don’t feel my gentics are good at all. Probably below average. But my effort isn’t!

215lbs at 6’2

I can’t believe things like this doesn’t make skinny guys want to get bigger. I for one am more determined to put on size when I read threads like this to prove people wrong.

Such as Professor X has done in his years of training

[quote]TheBigV wrote:
Agreed not everyone is looking to place first in the Olympia by the time they’re 40[/quote]

I am.

Nope, I have fairly good genetics, because I have two eyes, arms, legs, and a brain with a mouth. I Lift weights with my limbs, ask questions from more advanced guys with my mouth (two lips, 32 teeth, and a tongue included in the package) read about bodybuilding with my eyes, and act according to my brain’s decisions.

Thereby I make progress. Oh, forgot to mention that my mouth is a multi-functional thingy, as it can bit-chew some food too.

So, I have everything at my disposal to make progress. It only depends on me in the end.

[quote]Scott M wrote:

There is so many factors in bodybuilding that fall under the umbrella term genetics… you’ve got(really quickly)

Maximum muscular size
Rate of muscular gains
muscle insertions
“roundness”
developing evenly
leanness set point
how you distribute body fat
bone structure. [/quote]

That’s the individual part… most us ‘regular’ guys have challenges derived by one of these points; my major is fat setpoint and distribution (and its not as if my gain rate is anything amazing). This is what keeps it interesting for ‘the rest of us’, who are into it even knowing very well I’m not going to compete. trying things out, finding out what works and what not; my body is one big gadget, and I keep learning the controls.

Guys who blame their lack of progress on “bad genetics” are only surpassed on the “annoying scale” by two groups:

  1. People who scream that anyone bigger than them is on “teh 'roidz”: This group needs to accept that you CAN get big and lean without using AAS.

  2. People who insist that “roidz don’t make THAT big a difference”… Yes they DO make a huge difference, that’s why people use them. Then again, shitty training, piss-poor diet + roidz won’t turn Screech into Mariusz Pudzianowski.

But I agree with Prof X’s original point. If you have been training and eating smart for 5 years, and people aren’t accusing you of being on “teh roidz” (whether you are using or not). Then you probably aren’t going to be the next Ronnie Coleman…

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I know this is the BB forum, but I’m going to talk pl’ing for a second. I have a terrible build for power-lifting. I have long arms, long legs, poor recovery abilities, and fragile joints. But I keep on doing it because I love it and I keep progressing despite my shortcomings. Just because you don’t have the best god-given gifts for something doesn’t mean you can’t pour your heart into it and progress. On that note, I need to go the gym and squat and then drink a protein shake and a couple or so glasses of milk. Peace.[/quote]

I though of Matt Kroc when I read this.

Yep, my genes suck.

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Yep, my genes suck.[/quote]

They sure as hell do if you think that way. Your mind has the power to hold you back long before “genetics” do.

One of the guys who was working in with us one day asked me how I got my bench press up initially and I told him it was by training with people stronger than I was (just like he was doing). There is no way in hell I would have allowed myself to think I could ever do 405 on a bench press back then. That was about double my body weight at the time. If I hadn’t seen someone relatively my age and size doing it, my own mental block would have made sure that it would have either taken 10 times as long for me to do the same…or made sure I never would have done it.

Also, most of you won’t reach as far simply because you sit around procrastinating through the best growth years of your life. You won’t eat enough to grow because you want abs right now…only to realize 10 years later that your body won’t respond the same now that you finally want to see how far you can go.

I think genetics is a broad term that usually covers the three or four most important dispositions, namely how “fast someone puts on muscle” (a big oversimplification for sure) how resistant he is to typical training stress and injuries and third, his overall frame (wide shoulders, good bone structure etc).
If he juices, genetic “talent” will also determine how productive it is.

Genes are by far the most important and unforgiving aspect of bodybuilding sport. I can’t understand posters who downplay this and put “hard work” ahead. I can only assume they never saw really gifted people or shitty genes at work.

Most talented guys are already well-built or, if they really led a sub-optimal lifestyle, put on muscle with frightening speed when they press the iron and eat right for the first time in their life.

However, there are two big X factors in bodybuilding, which sets it a bit apart from other athletic endeavours:

One is drugs. I’d be hard to find a sport where such a substantial advantage is achieved though proper usage (endurance based races come to mind first).
This can change the whole “talent” discussion completely.

Consider Arnold, who supposedly started juicing at 16 or 17, and who was pretty much always “on”.
perhaps his only real talent was, apart from x factor 2, which I’ll explain in a second, a liver of steel and a genetic disposition to make the best of it.

X Factor two is what substantially removes bodybuilding from 99% of all sports.
Decade-spanning consistency is your friend.
Olympic athletes over thirty better sit atop a horse or play “curling”. Cause injuries and declining physicality will take it’s toll.
A bodybuilder in his thirties on the other hand, is in his prime.
That’s a very unusual, long career.

Both x factors, especially together, can substantially change a “genes” or “talent” discussion.

Since you mentioned Arnold, sure there are documented sources that he uses a SHITLOAD of d-bol etc, but if you look at his biceps and chest, you will see that they have perfect insertion points and most important very full and long muscle bellies.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This back is not the back of someone who spent 12 years “lifting weights” only to find themselves still only weighing 160lbs.

This back is not the back of some guy who calls himself an intermediate…but then follows that with, “how can I get big?”.

However, there seem to be some who don’t understand the difference between a genetically gifted individual and someone’s simple hard work.

The term Genetics simply refers to how well someone progresses based on the training and nutrition they follow AND/OR how much muscle they can gain overall setting them apart.

This does not mean that really big lifters were born that way.

This does not mean that someone skinny can’t get as big as the pros.

There are many pros who started off skinny before they started eating enough.

HOWEVER, one thing nearly all of them share is that once they finally got everything in line as far as eating enough and lifting regularly, they are the types who progress faster than most.

This is why it is generally held that if you have been training hard for 3-5 years and no one is calling you out based on how big you are (and I am NOT simply talking about some sedentary jackass calling you big because they haven’t seen 15" arms before)…then you likely do not have the genetics for this.

If you want to discuss that further, let’s go.[/quote]

Man when I first see that pic, all I saw was the big pile of lats staring at me. Freaky.

I think those who do lots of high volume “pump sets” and still manage to grow bigger (or much bigger) than ur average gym rat could be considered as having good genetics, provided they eat enough

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Yep, my genes suck.[/quote]

They sure as hell do if you think that way. Your mind has the power to hold you back long before “genetics” do.

One of the guys who was working in with us one day asked me how I got my bench press up initially and I told him it was by training with people stronger than I was (just like he was doing). There is no way in hell I would have allowed myself to think I could ever do 405 on a bench press back then. That was about double my body weight at the time. If I hadn’t seen someone relatively my age and size doing it, my own mental block would have made sure that it would have either taken 10 times as long for me to do the same…or made sure I never would have done it.

Also, most of you won’t reach as far simply because you sit around procrastinating through the best growth years of your life. You won’t eat enough to grow because you want abs right now…only to realize 10 years later that your body won’t respond the same now that you finally want to see how far you can go.

[/quote]

Being a fat-aphobe for the first 3 years of my training was a severe set back. i did some things in those years; Made myself believe i was making progress by looking at the mirrors, visualizing illusions of growth, regardless of the fact that the scale did not move, Assumed i had “bad genes” and couldnt get much larger than a pretty lean 180 (12%), and that id basically reached the pinnacle of my growth. Oh, my wasted years…being confused and misled by terms i didnt really understand, Genetics for example. This confusion only brought about mental imprisonment, placing physical limitations on myself.

This i believe is a big problem for beginners, not only of this day but through the history of this sport. They read their muscle mags and they read shit on the internet, and there is so much false and misleading information that it creates this huge chasm of a dividing line, giving this ridiculous appearance of the role of a factor such as genetics, when in fact it actually had more to do with the beginners route. if you start off lifting 5x a week and eating 4k calories, You are going to look a hell of a lot better a year down the road than the other beginner that started lifting 7x a week and eating 1600calories a day, thinking he was going to get big and stay lean.