Seeing as though the official raw bench press is several hundred pounds less than the equipped record, I think it is fair to reason that people are getting a decent amount of “help” (anywhere from 25% to 30% of their bench press with a shirt?), over what they can really lift without a shirt, depending of course on what sort of a shirt that they use.
I am just curious if anyone has any idea what kind of lift help that powerlifters in those “non-tested” orgs get from from the other kind of gear, you know, the kind that you shoot in your ass?
That is something that will never be answered. I highly doubt there are ever going to be comprehensive scientific studies controlling the substances the athletes ingest and comparing the two groups.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Seeing as though the official raw bench press is several hundred pounds less than the equipped record, I think it is fair to reason that people are getting a decent amount of “help” (anywhere from 25% to 30% of their bench press with a shirt?), over what they can really lift without a shirt, depending of course on what sort of a shirt that they use.
I am just curious if anyone has any idea what kind of lift help that powerlifters in those “non-tested” orgs get from from the other kind of gear, you know, the kind that you shoot in your ass?
[/quote]
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
That is something that will never be answered. I highly doubt there are ever going to be comprehensive scientific studies controlling the substances the athletes ingest and comparing the two groups.[/quote]
Plus there would also be a lot of variables too like dosages/compounds taken and length of time spent using.
From working in a gym though, I have seen people’s lifts go up a lot when they are using and then, go down when they stop. If I had to guess, I would think that the range is similar to a bench shirt but with maybe a lower end (20-30%).
From experience, I would say that a good long cycle at a hearty doseage for a seasoned lifter is good for maybe 5-10%. If we look at the best drug-free lifters in comparison to their “enhanced” counterparts using similar gear, similar rules, we see that the difference are typically in this 5-10%. Compare John Bernor or Charles Bailey’s lifts with juiced SHWs or 275s and you’ll see what I mean. Juice matters much less than gear mastery.
I’ve seen guys get more out of their juice. However, in these cases, the lifter is usually a young, skinny guy. Simple weight gain changed their lifts dramatically. For example- their old bench shirt that fit them loosely before their cycle (and therefore didn’t give a whole lotta pop) became an awesome, tight-fitting shirt. Plus, weighing 20-30 lbs more, regardless of whether that’s fat, water, or actual muscle, will improve your leverage and make you more stable. This weight gain aspect is generally what casues their lifts to go down when they go off the gravy. Since the popular steroids in PLing (long-estered testosterones, anadrol, dianabol) tend to cause a lot of water retention, when the lifter goes off, the water-weight goes real quick. The additional body weight goes with it.
[quote]AndrewGpv03 wrote:
This will eventually be 30+ pages and have gotten nowhere.[/quote]
Fuck you! This will eventually get to only 20+ pages, and won’t have the ability to get nowhere. The thread isn’t using assistance gear you juiceface, it can’t get to 30+ pages.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
AndrewGpv03 wrote:
This will eventually be 30+ pages and have gotten nowhere.
Fuck you! This will eventually get to only 20+ pages, and won’t have the ability to get nowhere. The thread isn’t using assistance gear you juiceface, it can’t get to 30+ pages.[/quote]
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
AndrewGpv03 wrote:
This will eventually be 30+ pages and have gotten nowhere.
Fuck you! This will eventually get to only 20+ pages, and won’t have the ability to get nowhere. The thread isn’t using assistance gear you juiceface, it can’t get to 30+ pages.[/quote]
Fine fucker, i’d much rather get to 20 pages natural then a bullshit fake 30 pages. Next thing you know people are going to be outsourcing spammers just to get page counts high. I wish forum posting was like it was back in the late 90’s. Bastardization…
[quote]AndrewGpv03 wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
AndrewGpv03 wrote:
This will eventually be 30+ pages and have gotten nowhere.
Fuck you! This will eventually get to only 20+ pages, and won’t have the ability to get nowhere. The thread isn’t using assistance gear you juiceface, it can’t get to 30+ pages.
Fine fucker, i’d much rather get to 20 pages natural then a bullshit fake 30 pages. Next thing you know people are going to be outsourcing spammers just to get page counts high. I wish forum posting was like it was back in the late 90’s. Bastardization…[/quote]
i thought al gore invented the internet on april 2, 2000
[quote]AndrewGpv03 wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
AndrewGpv03 wrote:
This will eventually be 30+ pages and have gotten nowhere.
Fuck you! This will eventually get to only 20+ pages, and won’t have the ability to get nowhere. The thread isn’t using assistance gear you juiceface, it can’t get to 30+ pages.
Fine fucker, i’d much rather get to 20 pages natural then a bullshit fake 30 pages. Next thing you know people are going to be outsourcing spammers just to get page counts high. I wish forum posting was like it was back in the late 90’s. Bastardization…[/quote]
What you need to do is get one of those equipped spam bots, hook him up with some drugs, and BAM!! 400+ pages over night.
[quote]Synthetickiller wrote:
Can we just shut this thread down? PLEASE?[/quote]
Why? I am just curious how much the figures look like when you take away the vitamin s, all of the gear and the rest… Lifting the way that nature intended us to lift, with our own natural test levels and our limbs.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
From experience, I would say that a good long cycle at a hearty doseage for a seasoned lifter is good for maybe 5-10%. If we look at the best drug-free lifters in comparison to their “enhanced” counterparts using similar gear, similar rules, we see that the difference are typically in this 5-10%. Compare John Bernor or Charles Bailey’s lifts with juiced SHWs or 275s and you’ll see what I mean. Juice matters much less than gear mastery.
I’ve seen guys get more out of their juice. However, in these cases, the lifter is usually a young, skinny guy. Simple weight gain changed their lifts dramatically. For example- their old bench shirt that fit them loosely before their cycle (and therefore didn’t give a whole lotta pop) became an awesome, tight-fitting shirt. Plus, weighing 20-30 lbs more, regardless of whether that’s fat, water, or actual muscle, will improve your leverage and make you more stable. This weight gain aspect is generally what casues their lifts to go down when they go off the gravy. Since the popular steroids in PLing (long-estered testosterones, anadrol, dianabol) tend to cause a lot of water retention, when the lifter goes off, the water-weight goes real quick. The additional body weight goes with it. [/quote]
Interesting figures, but from observations, since I have never used, the common gym rats that I see typically get above 10% when they are on juice and loose some of it when they go off of it; this is raw of course. All of these guys usually don’t follow anything that even remotely resembles an actual (powerlifting routine) routine either. Most of them bench press only and it’s hard to see how extra water weight would help leverage there.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Synthetickiller wrote:
Can we just shut this thread down? PLEASE?
Why? I am just curious how much the figures look like when you take away the vitamin s, all of the gear and the rest… Lifting the way that nature intended us to lift, with our own natural test levels and our limbs.
[/quote]
I don’t beleive nature ever intended us to leave heavyass iron on a perfect straight bar with even weight on each side that is the same exact size and shape in the form of bench and squat. Shoes and clothes are purely a product manufactured by man, as is soap and razors. It should be unshaved, unbathed, nude, barefoot heavy stone lifting, just like the Greeks had in mind.
When we’re done lifting the heavy stones while naked, can we all get together and stab Julius_Caesar to death? That way we’ve done something the Greeks did AND something the Romans did.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
From working in a gym though, I have seen people’s lifts go up a lot when they are using and then, go down when they stop. If I had to guess, I would think that the range is similar to a bench shirt but with maybe a lower end (20-30%).
I don’t beleive nature ever intended us to leave heavyass iron on a perfect straight bar with even weight on each side that is the same exact size and shape in the form of bench and squat. Shoes and clothes are purely a product manufactured by man, as is soap and razors. It should be unshaved, unbathed, nude, barefoot heavy stone lifting, just like the Greeks had in mind.[/quote]
Actually I was thinking more along the lines of just seeing how much people can lift without drugs or gear that obviously adds 100’s of pounds to the bench press and the squat.
