Future of MMA in Question?

Off Topic
41

[quote]oboffill wrote:
Pride fighting is marketed much differently than is UFC. There is less hype and fireworks, which coincidentally, makes me care less about the result of the match.

Just because WWE is fake, does not mean that they don’t know how to entertain an audience. Zuffa has learned this lesson.

Xen, at the end of the day, there are two fighters in a cage with lots of money and fame on the line. The “show” factor attracts viewers, which brings in money. More money is always better for the sport.[/quote]

Clearly you haven’t watched a Genki Sudo Pride entrance, or one of the many Pride grudge matches that actually lived up to their hype. Japanese MMA has flair and “fireworks”, they just don’t over-rely on it like the UFC do.

42

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
A problem I have with MMA in general is that some people just take it far too seriously.

Xen Nova wrote: Or if someone had a tapout shirt a mere nod at the shirt would let you both know that you were a wolf walking among sheep.

A wolf among sheep? You’re little more than boxers, not vicious killers. There were loads of examples of this attitude in the comments following TC’s “One Man Army” article from a couple of months back.

I feel this attitude is smarmy and contrived, and it seems that a significant percentage of MMA enthusiasts have adopted it. And quite frankly, it turns me off of MMA.

Now I’m not trying to just piss in everyone’s cereal or change anybody’s opinion, and I personally am not going to hijack this thread any further. I’m giving you all an outsider’s perspective of why I personally don’t like MMA. I would be stunned if I am alone in my opinion, but it could possibly be a reason why MMA has not become and might not ever be a mainstream American sport.

My $0.02, FWIW.[/quote]

I appreciate your viewpoint. I assume from your avatar you are from the military, and I think this might affect your views a little. You have come from true life and death situations, and kind of see MMA’ers as posers? I’ve had some other military folks tell me similar things.

I really think the hard core “I’m a killer badass” attitude comes from the fair weather fans who are just riding the fad. All of the real, long time fans and competitors of the sport I have had contact with are extremely intelligent and humble about the what they do and the sport itself. There are some MMA guys that are total assholes, just like any other professional sport. But then you have guys like Fedor Emelianenko who looks like your deli-guy and won’t even rank himself in the top 4 because he’s so humble (never mind that he is the best ever). Theese guys take the sport just as seriously as any other professional athlete takes their sport, be it boxing, football, basketball etc.

I think Xen was just alluding to the fact that MMA used to be almost a small club, where everyone kind of knew everyone else. Now that it’s more mainstream you have the punks thinking they are the fucking shit because they have a 40 pound punching bag in their room and watch TUF.

43

[quote]pitbull314 wrote:
In boxing there is no where to run and no where to hide. you have to stand there and fight like a man. [/quote]

You’re kidding right?

Please say you’re kidding…Come on say it.

44

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
A problem I have with MMA in general is that some people just take it far too seriously.

Xen Nova wrote: Or if someone had a tapout shirt a mere nod at the shirt would let you both know that you were a wolf walking among sheep.

A wolf among sheep? You’re little more than boxers, not vicious killers. There were loads of examples of this attitude in the comments following TC’s “One Man Army” article from a couple of months back.

I feel this attitude is smarmy and contrived, and it seems that a significant percentage of MMA enthusiasts have adopted it. And quite frankly, it turns me off of MMA.

Now I’m not trying to just piss in everyone’s cereal or change anybody’s opinion, and I personally am not going to hijack this thread any further. I’m giving you all an outsider’s perspective of why I personally don’t like MMA. I would be stunned if I am alone in my opinion, but it could possibly be a reason why MMA has not become and might not ever be a mainstream American sport.

My $0.02, FWIW.[/quote]

A quick history lesson for the guys who think that mma will not overtake boxing as the number one combat sport.

Prior to about 1912 the number one combat sport in America was Professional Wrestling. REAL Professional Wrestling. Not the clown antics that you see today.

Pro Wrestling was it!

Sometime after two real greats met, Frank Gotch and George Hackenschmidt (also an early weightlifter) the sport began to die.

Boxing was a sport since the turn of the century but it took time to overtake Wrestling. In fact, it took about 15 to 20 years.

Boxing has been really big since about the 1920’s, not even 100 years yet.

MMA came on the scene in 1993 and somewhere over the next 3 to 4 years will be the number one combat sport in America!

Those who doubt it should read up on their history.

45

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
A problem I have with MMA in general is that some people just take it far too seriously.

Xen Nova wrote: Or if someone had a tapout shirt a mere nod at the shirt would let you both know that you were a wolf walking among sheep.

A wolf among sheep? You’re little more than boxers, not vicious killers. There were loads of examples of this attitude in the comments following TC’s “One Man Army” article from a couple of months back.

I feel this attitude is smarmy and contrived, and it seems that a significant percentage of MMA enthusiasts have adopted it. And quite frankly, it turns me off of MMA.

Now I’m not trying to just piss in everyone’s cereal or change anybody’s opinion, and I personally am not going to hijack this thread any further. I’m giving you all an outsider’s perspective of why I personally don’t like MMA. I would be stunned if I am alone in my opinion, but it could possibly be a reason why MMA has not become and might not ever be a mainstream American sport.

My $0.02, FWIW.

I appreciate your viewpoint. I assume from your avatar you are from the military, and I think this might affect your views a little. You have come from true life and death situations, and kind of see MMA’ers as posers? I’ve had some other military folks tell me similar things.

I really think the hard core “I’m a killer badass” attitude comes from the fair weather fans who are just riding the fad. All of the real, long time fans and competitors of the sport I have had contact with are extremely intelligent and humble about the what they do and the sport itself. There are some MMA guys that are total assholes, just like any other professional sport. But then you have guys like Fedor Emelianenko who looks like your deli-guy and won’t even rank himself in the top 4 because he’s so humble (never mind that he is the best ever). Theese guys take the sport just as seriously as any other professional athlete takes their sport, be it boxing, football, basketball etc.

I think Xen was just alluding to the fact that MMA used to be almost a small club, where everyone kind of knew everyone else. Now that it’s more mainstream you have the punks thinking they are the fucking shit because they have a 40 pound punching bag in their room and watch TUF.

[/quote]

Great post Donut. I still find it hard to believe that people think that every guy in MMA is somehow a asshole, it seems to be the opposite with a lot of the top guys.

You have your assholes from every race, religion, mindset, sexual preference, gender, size, and et cetera. I think people would assume a sport (which it is now and wasn’t 15 years ago) like MMA would have to contain assholes due to the fighting.

Donut I also agree with the stampede of the prophets of punishment, like your Chris Lebens and Ed Herms. Ed is a decent fighter, but both of those guys would keep their damn mouths open 24/7 to a point where their talent was far behind their barking. It gets very tiresome.

And then you have guys with absolutely no fighting talent whatsoever who tend to jump on the bandwagon. But these guys exist in all places, you seem them in the gym weighing 120 pounds doing bicep curls and walking like the Michellen Man. Danny from TUF 3 represents this to me.

46

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:

Danny from TUF 3 represents this to me.

[/quote]

“I’m the Ultimate Fighter!!!” LOL!

Good post ZEB, I agree it’s only a matter of time before MMA overtakes boxing.

47

I think it is silly to compare who is the more of a man or badass between boxers and mma fighters. They are just sports. Boxing is a very tough sport because you have only one option at your disposal, punching. You cannot take your opponent down or kick him when you are in trouble. If your opponent is a better boxer you will just get beat up. There really is no way out. This is not to say that boxers are more manly or tougher.
MMA is tough since you have many variables to deal with and can lose in many ways.
The chances that a pro boxer and mma fighter will get into a fight on the srteet are miniscule. So it does not matter. It is like kids who argue who would win between Spiderman and Superman.
The new fans who pretend to be tough since they became mma fans are silly. They practice some bjj or wrestling and they look down on boxers and kickboxers and karateka. They do not realize that they still would be killed by a top amateur/pro boxer/kickboxer. They live through the pro mma fighters and are isolated from how really tough it is. It is funny when a guy like that spars for the first time against somebody who has great stand-up skills. They get punched in the nose and they are crying. They hit their opponent in the head and freak out when their opponnet shrugs it off. I have experienced this many times. Respect should be given to all practitioners, mma, boxers, grapplers etc.
By the way Tyson’s fights still have the record for most PPV buys. These days De La Hoya gets 950,000 buys and people think it is alot. Tyson regularly broke a million.

48

[quote]ZEB wrote:

A quick history lesson for the guys who think that mma will not overtake boxing as the number one combat sport.

Prior to about 1912 the number one combat sport in America was Professional Wrestling. REAL Professional Wrestling. Not the clown antics that you see today.

Pro Wrestling was it!

Sometime after two real greats met, Frank Gotch and George Hackenschmidt (also an early weightlifter) the sport began to die.

Boxing was a sport since the turn of the century but it took time to overtake Wrestling. In fact, it took about 15 to 20 years.

Boxing has been really big since about the 1920’s, not even 100 years yet.

MMA came on the scene in 1993 and somewhere over the next 3 to 4 years will be the number one combat sport in America!

Those who doubt it should read up on their history.

[/quote]

Nice post Zeb. I look at MMA as the completion of all past combat sports. MMA is the only sport where you can match guys from MMA backgrounds or different backgrounds and determine who would win.

Without the constraints of Sumo, Wrestling, Kickboxing, Boxing, MMA fighters display who would win in a true fight. This is why for example Sam Stout a great kickboxer, will get his ass handed to him if he doesn’t expand his game, this is why Sumo guys in Pride have never been successful.

Good points on boxing, BTW.

If it wasn’t for MMA people would still believe a blackbelt in Karate or Tae Kwan Do would be undstoppable and the greatest rehearsed fighters around, lol.

That is why early UFC may be non-technical, and odd, but it destroyed many myths…well almost all, people still think Bruce Lee would kick Matt Hughes ass…lol.

49

[quote]otoko wrote:
I think it is silly to compare who is the more of a man or badass between boxers and mma fighters. They are just sports. Boxing is a very tough sport because you have only one option at your disposal, punching. You cannot take your opponent down or kick him when you are in trouble. If your opponent is a better boxer you will just get beat up. There really is no way out. This is not to say that boxers are more manly or tougher.
MMA is tough since you have many variables to deal with and can lose in many ways.
The chances that a pro boxer and mma fighter will get into a fight on the srteet are miniscule. So it does not matter. It is like kids who argue who would win between Spiderman and Superman.
The new fans who pretend to be tough since they became mma fans are silly. They practice some bjj or wrestling and they look down on boxers and kickboxers and karateka. They do not realize that they still would be killed by a top amateur/pro boxer/kickboxer. They live through the pro mma fighters and are isolated from how really tough it is. It is funny when a guy like that spars for the first time against somebody who has great stand-up skills. They get punched in the nose and they are crying. They hit their opponent in the head and freak out when their opponnet shrugs it off. I have experienced this many times. Respect should be given to all practitioners, mma, boxers, grapplers etc.
By the way Tyson’s fights still have the record for most PPV buys. These days De La Hoya gets 950,000 buys and people think it is alot. Tyson regularly broke a million. [/quote]

Granted respect should be given to all combat sports atheletes, but your generalization that a certain section of MMA fans are the only ignorant ones is ridiculous…I’d be willing to be there is a higher percentage of MMA fans with respect for those sports than boxing fans with respect for what it takes to participate in MMA.

Also, your assertion that you can’t “just take someone down when you’re tired” is bunk as well…I don’t know how many times I had to watch guys run from Roy Jones Jr when he was in his prime, very, very irritating to see a guy throw his hands up because he made it the distance by running the entire fight.

50

[quote]Gene86 wrote:
oboffill wrote:
Pride fighting is marketed much differently than is UFC. There is less hype and fireworks, which coincidentally, makes me care less about the result of the match.

Just because WWE is fake, does not mean that they don’t know how to entertain an audience. Zuffa has learned this lesson.

Xen, at the end of the day, there are two fighters in a cage with lots of money and fame on the line. The “show” factor attracts viewers, which brings in money. More money is always better for the sport.

Clearly you haven’t watched a Genki Sudo Pride entrance, or one of the many Pride grudge matches that actually lived up to their hype. Japanese MMA has flair and “fireworks”, they just don’t over-rely on it like the UFC do.

[/quote]

How about Kazushi Sakuraba’s entrances (Super Mario Bros for example)? You can’t tell me that they aren’t entertaining and don’t draw the crowd into the fight. He matches his entertaining entrances with an entertaining fighting style as well, which is what helps his popularity.

51

[quote]slimjim wrote:
otoko wrote:
I think it is silly to compare who is the more of a man or badass between boxers and mma fighters. They are just sports. Boxing is a very tough sport because you have only one option at your disposal, punching. You cannot take your opponent down or kick him when you are in trouble. If your opponent is a better boxer you will just get beat up. There really is no way out. This is not to say that boxers are more manly or tougher.
MMA is tough since you have many variables to deal with and can lose in many ways.
The chances that a pro boxer and mma fighter will get into a fight on the srteet are miniscule. So it does not matter. It is like kids who argue who would win between Spiderman and Superman.
The new fans who pretend to be tough since they became mma fans are silly. They practice some bjj or wrestling and they look down on boxers and kickboxers and karateka. They do not realize that they still would be killed by a top amateur/pro boxer/kickboxer. They live through the pro mma fighters and are isolated from how really tough it is. It is funny when a guy like that spars for the first time against somebody who has great stand-up skills. They get punched in the nose and they are crying. They hit their opponent in the head and freak out when their opponnet shrugs it off. I have experienced this many times. Respect should be given to all practitioners, mma, boxers, grapplers etc.
By the way Tyson’s fights still have the record for most PPV buys. These days De La Hoya gets 950,000 buys and people think it is alot. Tyson regularly broke a million.

Granted respect should be given to all combat sports atheletes, but your generalization that a certain section of MMA fans are the only ignorant ones is ridiculous…I’d be willing to be there is a higher percentage of MMA fans with respect for those sports than boxing fans with respect for what it takes to participate in MMA.

Also, your assertion that you can’t “just take someone down when you’re tired” is bunk as well…I don’t know how many times I had to watch guys run from Roy Jones Jr when he was in his prime, very, very irritating to see a guy throw his hands up because he made it the distance by running the entire fight.[/quote]

I didn’t generalize anybody. They are two different sports. There are plenty of people who have become mma fans recently and dismiss boxers. The same is true of boxing fans. They are both mistaken.
And I did not assert “just take someone down when your’re tired.” I did not write that. Read my post again. You have the option of trying to take your opponent down in mma. Why stand-up with your opponent if he is clearly the superior stand-up fighter? Or why go down to the ground if your opponent is clearly superior to you on the ground? That is part of strategy. Boxing you do not have that option. That is what I am saying. You can try to run in a boxing match, hold on for dear life or get knocked out. Do you think I am saying one sport is better or tougher? I am not.
How did you imterpret my post that way. You assert something I did not say you even assert something I did not even write and quoted a non-existant quote. That pisses me off.

52

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
ZEB wrote:

A quick history lesson for the guys who think that mma will not overtake boxing as the number one combat sport.

Prior to about 1912 the number one combat sport in America was Professional Wrestling. REAL Professional Wrestling. Not the clown antics that you see today.

Pro Wrestling was it!

Sometime after two real greats met, Frank Gotch and George Hackenschmidt (also an early weightlifter) the sport began to die.

Boxing was a sport since the turn of the century but it took time to overtake Wrestling. In fact, it took about 15 to 20 years.

Boxing has been really big since about the 1920’s, not even 100 years yet.

MMA came on the scene in 1993 and somewhere over the next 3 to 4 years will be the number one combat sport in America!

Those who doubt it should read up on their history.

Nice post Zeb. I look at MMA as the completion of all past combat sports. MMA is the only sport where you can match guys from MMA backgrounds or different backgrounds and determine who would win.

Without the constraints of Sumo, Wrestling, Kickboxing, Boxing, MMA fighters display who would win in a true fight. This is why for example Sam Stout a great kickboxer, will get his ass handed to him if he doesn’t expand his game, this is why Sumo guys in Pride have never been successful.

Good points on boxing, BTW.

If it wasn’t for MMA people would still believe a blackbelt in Karate or Tae Kwan Do would be undstoppable and the greatest rehearsed fighters around, lol.

That is why early UFC may be non-technical, and odd, but it destroyed many myths…well almost all, people still think Bruce Lee would kick Matt Hughes ass…lol.[/quote]

The days of guys walking in with experience in only one background are over. It is not karate versus boxing anymore. It is one mma practitioner against another. It indicates who probably would win in a true fight between the two fighters. NOt always because of fights like Randleman-Fedor.
MMA did dispel many myths. That is good. Now people have a more practical and realistic view.

53

[quote]otoko wrote
I didn’t generalize anybody. They are two different sports. There are plenty of people who have become mma fans recently and dismiss boxers. The same is true of boxing fans. They are both mistaken.
And I did not assert “just take someone down when your’re tired.” I did not write that. Read my post again. You have the option of trying to take your opponent down in mma. Why stand-up with your opponent if he is clearly the superior stand-up fighter? Or why go down to the ground if your opponent is clearly superior to you on the ground? That is part of strategy. Boxing you do not have that option. That is what I am saying. You can try to run in a boxing match, hold on for dear life or get knocked out. Do you think I am saying one sport is better or tougher? I am not.
How did you imterpret my post that way. You assert something I did not say you even assert something I did not even write and quoted a non-existant quote. That pisses me off.

[/quote]

I think I took your post the wrong way, and now you’re taking my post the wrong way, but here it goes.

[quote]otoko wrote:
Boxing is a very tough sport because you have only one option at your disposal, punching. You cannot take your opponent down or kick him when you are in trouble.

The new fans who pretend to be tough since they became mma fans are silly. They practice some bjj or wrestling and they look down on boxers and kickboxers and karateka. They do not realize that they still would be killed by a top amateur/pro boxer/kickboxer. They live through the pro mma fighters and are isolated from how really tough it is. It is funny when a guy like that spars for the first time against somebody who has great stand-up skills. They get punched in the nose and they are crying. They hit their opponent in the head and freak out when their opponnet shrugs it off. I have experienced this many times. Respect should be given to all practitioners, mma, boxers, grapplers etc. [/quote]

While you state that respect should be given to all practitioners, the situation you outline earlier only speaks of mma fans who think that they are better than boxers and kickboxers, you speak nothing of the converse situation which is way more likely to happen(only speaking from my experience in the US) where boxers thumb their noses at mma, or even more likely, wrestlers/grapplers in general. I personally enjoy the look on a boxers face when they’ve been taken down and submitted for the first time, or get in a streetfight with a wrestler and picked up and slammed.

I don’t want this to be another endless debate where we argue in circles as I don’t think I was really arguing against you previously, only trying to point out that the opposite was true as well, probably even to a greater degree.

54

[quote]slimjim wrote:
otoko wrote
I didn’t generalize anybody. They are two different sports. There are plenty of people who have become mma fans recently and dismiss boxers. The same is true of boxing fans. They are both mistaken.
And I did not assert “just take someone down when your’re tired.” I did not write that. Read my post again. You have the option of trying to take your opponent down in mma. Why stand-up with your opponent if he is clearly the superior stand-up fighter? Or why go down to the ground if your opponent is clearly superior to you on the ground? That is part of strategy. Boxing you do not have that option. That is what I am saying. You can try to run in a boxing match, hold on for dear life or get knocked out. Do you think I am saying one sport is better or tougher? I am not.
How did you imterpret my post that way. You assert something I did not say you even assert something I did not even write and quoted a non-existant quote. That pisses me off.

I think I took your post the wrong way, and now you’re taking my post the wrong way, but here it goes.

otoko wrote:
Boxing is a very tough sport because you have only one option at your disposal, punching. You cannot take your opponent down or kick him when you are in trouble.

The new fans who pretend to be tough since they became mma fans are silly. They practice some bjj or wrestling and they look down on boxers and kickboxers and karateka. They do not realize that they still would be killed by a top amateur/pro boxer/kickboxer. They live through the pro mma fighters and are isolated from how really tough it is. It is funny when a guy like that spars for the first time against somebody who has great stand-up skills. They get punched in the nose and they are crying. They hit their opponent in the head and freak out when their opponnet shrugs it off. I have experienced this many times. Respect should be given to all practitioners, mma, boxers, grapplers etc.

While you state that respect should be given to all practitioners, the situation you outline earlier only speaks of mma fans who think that they are better than boxers and kickboxers, you speak nothing of the converse situation which is way more likely to happen(only speaking from my experience in the US) where boxers thumb their noses at mma, or even more likely, wrestlers/grapplers in general. I personally enjoy the look on a boxers face when they’ve been taken down and submitted for the first time, or get in a streetfight with a wrestler and picked up and slammed.

I don’t want this to be another endless debate where we argue in circles as I don’t think I was really arguing against you previously, only trying to point out that the opposite was true as well, probably even to a greater degree.[/quote]

I just did not bring up the boxing fans’ view of mma. You are right. Plenty of boxers and boxing fans dismiss mma. Boxing training is a large part of a mma fighter’s training. Because of this I would think they would have a more tempered view of boxing/kickboxing. It should be obvious to any boxer or kickboxer or their fans that they would be taken down and beaten by a wrestler or mma fighter if they did not train any grappling. It isn’t unfortunately. With more exposure in the US it should change. Will new mma fans who have made up their mind to dismiss boxers and kickboxers and inferior because they would probably be beaten under mma rules change their view? I am not that confident of that.
WE don’t have to argue. We misunderstood each other. I apologise for that.

55

A fighter having a flashy entrance is not the same as hyping a fight and building drama for a fight.

I might be wrong about Pride because I receive less exposure to in the states.

Both organizations are great to watch. Hey, I’m an MMA fan, what can I say.

56

[quote]oboffill wrote:
A fighter having a flashy entrance is not the same as hyping a fight and building drama for a fight.

I might be wrong about Pride because I receive less exposure to in the states.

Both organizations are great to watch. Hey, I’m an MMA fan, what can I say. [/quote]

Both orginazations do hype. Though if the match-up is good and the fighters are great you probably need less hype. If the match-up is questionable and the level of one of the fighters is low(or both) you need to sell the fight. Pride sometimes hypes up their Japanese fighters too much. Sometimes they don’t like Yoshida-Silva. MOst Japanese media predicted Silva destroying Yoshida. Yoshida is always humble about his chances in a match so he isn’t naturally inclined to tr to sell a fight with trash talk. They didn’t need hype for that fight since Silva is loved by the Japanese and Yoshida is a Japanese Judo gold medalist.

57

I guess I should refine my first post a little.

When I was talking about the attitude that I dislike, I meant the attitude among fanboys and some amateurs. Not the pros, because heck, I can only name a couple of MMA fighters. I have no idea what the pros’ attitudes are like.

When I see an MMA fight, I see it as a something very similar to boxing. As someone who trains hard (though not for MMA), I can greatly appreciate the skill and athleticism of the competitors even though I don’t find it as entertaining as other sports. But to me, it’s still just a sport, meaning that if these guys got in fights in real life, they would be just as likely to get hammered as nearly every other professional athlete, IMO.

I think that when a veteran MMA fan sees a fight, they see something much more similar to what I see than what Fanboy sees.

I think when a bandwagon MMA fan (Fanboy) sees a fight, he believes these guys are total warriors; some of the best fighters the world has ever seen. Fanboy believes that an MMA champ could beat the holy snot out of anybody, anywhere, anytime, and that only other MMA fighters could challenge him.

Because he believes this, Fanboy then starts practicing MMA, and once he gets even a basic level of proficiency, Fanboy believes that he too has joined the ranks of some of the greatest warriors to ever live. Because of his pride, Fanboy subconsciously tries to show off his ability, and puts on an annoyingly aggresive facade.

So let me be clear in that I hate Fanboy, not the sport of MMA nor the professionals competing in it. All sports have fanboys, but to me there’s something a little different about this current crop of MMA bandwagoners.

A football bandwagoner might believe that football players are heroes, or gridiron gladiators or all that hullaballo, and since this kid is a starting LB for his 3-7 Class B High School Football team, he thinks that he too is a hero. But while he is sometimes overly proud, he still kind of leaves the football stuff on the football field.

The MMA Fanboy, I think, tends to see live as an MMA fight. He brings his MMA attitude into the grocery store, and then gets a little uppity when someone like me accidentally cuts him off in the frozen meat section. Because he feels he is an unbeatable MMA warrior, he might start something a little quicker than a normal kid would.

Fanboy then gets his head beaten in with a frozen ham while I go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon.

So while I exaggerate to make my perspective a little clearer, I find that people like Fanboy take MMA too seriously and their attitude annoys me. So to go back to Xen’s main point, as MMA gets more mainstream, Fanboy’s will get more plentiful and drive people like me away from the sport.

That’s all I meant. I was not intending to disrespect the sport or its athletes, only its uneducated bandwagon fans who have Buyan-esque views of the sport and its competitors.

My $0.02 more.

P.S. to whomever asked, no I have not served in the military. I chose my SN because I read a Stephen King book one time. :wink:

58

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:

When I see an MMA fight, I see it as a something very similar to boxing. As someone who trains hard (though not for MMA), I can greatly appreciate the skill and athleticism of the competitors even though I don’t find it as entertaining as other sports. But to me, it’s still just a sport, meaning that if these guys got in fights in real life, they would be just as likely to get hammered as nearly every other professional athlete, IMO.
[/quote]

Good post and I agree with the overall sentiment but, I can’t see the logic in this comment. I do think that in a street fight, a boxer, or even more likely a top MMA guy have a far better chance in coming out the victor than say a professional baseball or basketball player.

I think if 99.99% of the population challenge Chuck Liddell to a backyard boxing match (think of a typical internet tough guy) because they think he is all show, would indeed learn something.

By the way check out Bas Rutten challenging Randleman, lol

Bas is indeed the best MMA commentator.

59

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
I guess I should refine my first post a little.

When I was talking about the attitude that I dislike, I meant the attitude among fanboys and some amateurs. Not the pros, because heck, I can only name a couple of MMA fighters. I have no idea what the pros’ attitudes are like.

When I see an MMA fight, I see it as a something very similar to boxing. As someone who trains hard (though not for MMA), I can greatly appreciate the skill and athleticism of the competitors even though I don’t find it as entertaining as other sports. But to me, it’s still just a sport, meaning that if these guys got in fights in real life, they would be just as likely to get hammered as nearly every other professional athlete, IMO.

I think that when a veteran MMA fan sees a fight, they see something much more similar to what I see than what Fanboy sees.

I think when a bandwagon MMA fan (Fanboy) sees a fight, he believes these guys are total warriors; some of the best fighters the world has ever seen. Fanboy believes that an MMA champ could beat the holy snot out of anybody, anywhere, anytime, and that only other MMA fighters could challenge him.

Because he believes this, Fanboy then starts practicing MMA, and once he gets even a basic level of proficiency, Fanboy believes that he too has joined the ranks of some of the greatest warriors to ever live. Because of his pride, Fanboy subconsciously tries to show off his ability, and puts on an annoyingly aggresive facade.

So let me be clear in that I hate Fanboy, not the sport of MMA nor the professionals competing in it. All sports have fanboys, but to me there’s something a little different about this current crop of MMA bandwagoners.

A football bandwagoner might believe that football players are heroes, or gridiron gladiators or all that hullaballo, and since this kid is a starting LB for his 3-7 Class B High School Football team, he thinks that he too is a hero. But while he is sometimes overly proud, he still kind of leaves the football stuff on the football field.

The MMA Fanboy, I think, tends to see live as an MMA fight. He brings his MMA attitude into the grocery store, and then gets a little uppity when someone like me accidentally cuts him off in the frozen meat section. Because he feels he is an unbeatable MMA warrior, he might start something a little quicker than a normal kid would.

Fanboy then gets his head beaten in with a frozen ham while I go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon.

So while I exaggerate to make my perspective a little clearer, I find that people like Fanboy take MMA too seriously and their attitude annoys me. So to go back to Xen’s main point, as MMA gets more mainstream, Fanboy’s will get more plentiful and drive people like me away from the sport.

That’s all I meant. I was not intending to disrespect the sport or its athletes, only its uneducated bandwagon fans who have Buyan-esque views of the sport and its competitors.

My $0.02 more.

P.S. to whomever asked, no I have not served in the military. I chose my SN because I read a Stephen King book one time. ;)[/quote]

I have been into mma a long time. I like watching it and doing it. I think you do have a point. The type of person you are describing do exist and they need to wake up. In the end it is just a sport. While people want to bring up real fights and how mma practitioners would be the best suited for a real fight, I think they miss the point. It is usually hypothetical.

Most of the world’s population cannot fight. Most conflict in the world is done with weapons, guns, bombs, rocks. Palestinians are not going to start faking rock throws to go for a one-leg takedown. Soldiers will fight guns, battalions, bombs, air support. Besides armed forces and war zones nobody has a reason to get into a fight. The tiny minority who do train in mma, well most of them are not good enough to be professional. While they might feel the pros represent them, they themselves will probably never have their skills tested in a real situation. Which seems normal to me, nothing wrong with that. Most pros who have accomplished something in their mma careers will not get into a fight on the street.

60

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:

When I see an MMA fight, I see it as a something very similar to boxing. As someone who trains hard (though not for MMA), I can greatly appreciate the skill and athleticism of the competitors even though I don’t find it as entertaining as other sports. But to me, it’s still just a sport, meaning that if these guys got in fights in real life, they would be just as likely to get hammered as nearly every other professional athlete, IMO.

Good post and I agree with the overall sentiment but, I can’t see the logic in this comment. I do think that in a street fight, a boxer, or even more likely a top MMA guy have a far better chance in coming out the victor than say a professional baseball or basketball player.

I think if 99.99% of the population challenge Chuck Liddell to a backyard boxing match (think of a typical internet tough guy) because they think he is all show, would indeed learn something.

By the way check out Bas Rutten challenging Randleman, lol

Bas is indeed the best MMA commentator.[/quote]

Yes I agree. A top pro(or amateur) would most likely win a street fight. The average practitioner, I don’t know. He would have to face somebody(one person) with no training and experience, hopefully close in size, then the mma practitioner would most likely win a street fight. If the average man training in mma fought a football player in the street or boxer, I in principle acknowledge he has some skills though the outcome would not be for certain.