Future of MMA in Question?

Off Topic
1

I’ve loved mma. I’ve loved it from the first Bruce Lee movie I was shown where I heard the words, “I have no style”.

I’ve loved it when everyone thought it was human cockfighting, through the shamrock “worlds dangerous man” years, to the XXXTREMEEEEXXX XYIENCE XXTREEMEEE
Years we seem to be going through now.

MMA is truly the fastest growing sport in America and people from all walks of life love it (and rightly so). I know here of all places I dont have to explain why we love this greatest of all sports.

But we’re going commercial, and going commercial fast. At what price?

It IS a good thing to some extent… the overall better treatment for fighters (monetary rewards and saftey) as well as the legitimacy of your own training (ie, my gf stopped calling it kung fu and better facilities)…

Prior to it’s recent cool-factor… it had edge.
An edge that I feel it’s losing. You had to search for someone to train you, searching for a fight was an adventure itself. Your gym was a dark dank warehouse with a bloody canvas punching bag or someone’s garage with a few worn out wrestling mats spread on the floor.

You knew the true meaning of cauliflower ear. Or if someone had a tapout shirt a mere nod at the shirt would let you both know that you were a wolf walking among sheep.

now you have a bunch of Good Charlotte rejects running around with “Snap or tap” shirts when the most they’ve done is watched a few episodes of T.U.F

Fans are less educated than before… while there was the occasional dumbass that considered grappling gay (Though it kinda is lol)… it never affected fighters to the point where “Standing” with another fighter is showing balls and going to the ground deems you a pussy.

While the fights are supposed to be entertaining… that is EXACTLY what is supposed to be the entertainment-- THE FIGHT

Not the “drama” or “bad blood” involved between two fighters

Not the fireworks show b4 the fighter walks in the ring…

The FIGHT. The fact that two amazingly athletic individuals are willing to put all of their skills, passion, and soul in the ring/cage for potentially the next 15min… THIS is what should drive us to watch MMA.

Griffin vs. Bonnar was a good example of this. No animosity, no personalities, just heart.
(Nevermind that it wasn’t the most technical matchup, but people have to be worked into that slowly)

It’s just the current path of MMA thats giving me a problem. I don’t see what will seperate the fighters and the fans from Professional Wrestling.

The future of MMA seems pretty bright, but there is a darkness surrounding it.

Hopefully it’s just my imagination.

XN

2

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:

While the fights are supposed to be entertaining… that is EXACTLY what is supposed to be the entertainment-- THE FIGHT

Not the “drama” or “bad blood” involved between two fighters

Not the fireworks show b4 the fighter walks in the ring…

[/quote]

I totally agree - watching the Shamrock vs. Ortiz match on UFC 61 I couldn’t help but think of professional wrestling with it’s showboating and theatrics.

It’s a shame that it seems to be losing its hardcore edge in favour of pandering to the masses but as with a lot of things it’s probably a passing fad. MMA will be huge for a time and then the trend-following fans will find some other trend to follow. At least I hope that’s what happens.

I long for the days when it just about 2 guys in the ring, pitting their skills against one another to prove who was better. And when you lost, you lost with a bit of dignity - you didn’t cry like a bitch - you congratulated the other guy on a good fight.

MMA is not doomed yet but I’d say the true fans are just going to have to weather the commercial storm for a while.

3

I think it is.

“Hype” is what sells tickets and Boxing has been doing it for 100 years!

Don’t worry one bit about mma, it will replace Boxing as the number one combat sport in the USA with in three years.

4

I do not think it is mma. It is the UFC. The way Zuffa has chose to market the UFC. I think they should inform fans, teach them about the sport. Most people have never taken a martial art, boxing, judo, wrestling etc. They have no idea of how to throw a punch or kick, a takedown, throw. They can’t tell who is talented and who is just part of the marketing hype. MOst people have played baseball, basketball, football. They have a personal experience with the sport that helps them understand. NOt so with mma or boxing.

Also in America mma and martial arts are just not understood. They are not appreciated, in general by the masses.
I like fighters like Fedor and Nogueira, they are great fighters and they represent themselves as good people. Tim Sylvia just talks too much garbage for me. He isn’t charming, funny or interesting so his comments just are annoying.

Actually I hope America does embrace the sport, hopefully then their will be more respect and understanding of martial arts in general.

What does it matter if it isn’t just your clique now? Wherever I go in Japan I meet guys(and a few women) who have practiced something, whether it be for personal satisfaction or they were competitors on a national, international or professional level. In the past few months I have run into Peter Aerts, Lebanner, Goodridge, Akiyama, Nakamura, Hideo Tokoro, Fujita. Some of my friends competed as professionals. I have never felt like how you feel Mr. Nova. Maybe it is because I am not living in the states now and experience what you are experiencing. Still I think it is not such a bad thing for the sport to get exposure. If mma can establish itself then eventually things will even out. You will not have to deal with that degree of silliness forever.

As for the boxing vs. mma…I do not know why people have to go through the whole boxing is dying and mma is etter and will surpass it speech. Who cares? Different sport. Who argues about the NFL being watched more than the NBA? If you like boxing what does it matter if mma comes along and eventually gets more ppv buys several times a year? Boxing has a long history. In America the sport has a huge infrastructure. Amateur, Olympics, Golden Gloves, Prodessional shows going on every weekend around the country. It is not only some PPV fights. I stiil watch the Japan National Judo championships on tv as well as the Judo World Championships. Flyweight boxing and amateur wrestling, kyokushin tournaments when they come on tv. NOne of those has the exposure boxing or mma does or the ppv buys but I do not care since I like watching them.

5

Every sport is diluted as it becomes more successful. The price we all pay for living in a market-driven economy.

Formula 1, where I used to see someone die every other year (not that I enjoyed death, but appreciated these drivers were putting their lives on the line) has, due to sponsors, now become little more that a procession of 22 cars covered in adverts.

Football (soccer) because of its global popularity is in the process of being made into a non-contact sport because of the money being pumped into it by Nike, Adida and well… EVERYONE. If the English national team’s players had spent as much time learning to take penalties as they did making World Cup adverts and lining their pockets, we might have gotten somewhere!

UFC and MMA in general is exactly the same. Agreed that all that Xcience bollocks is extremely irritating. WE CAN SEE THE FUCKING ADVERT ON THE FLOOR OF THE OCTAGON! Stop mentioning it every five seconds!

I don’t know if you guys know Amir Khan, the young British Olympic silver-medalist boxer that turned pro last year. He’s had 8 pro fights and won all 8, but he still hasn’t fought anyone halfway decent or more importantly done more than a 6-rounder - despite that, he is being heralded as the next great hope of lightweights over here and is making very decent money because of the TV/Frank Warren-endorsed hype. How is that professional boxing?

I think the kid is very talented and extremely fast, but because people are so terrified of losing their cash cow, he is being put against chumps and has not fought a proper length boxing match. I for one would would rather see him fight someone of note and lose - At least he’ll learn something and get better - but to the people who don’t understand combat-sports, if someone loses they are finished in their eyes. Pathetic.

A record of 8-0 sounds great, but really shouldn’t count as a pro record. Still, money talks…

At least he’s not as bad as Audley Harrison. Worst. Boxer. Ever.

Agh… God Damn the commercialisation of sports.

6

If you ask the gracies, the sport died when they introduced rounds and time limits (some even argue weight classes).

So dont worry about the sport dieing, because its already dead! (said tongue in cheek)

Everyone uses the time when they were introduced to the sport as their point of reference as “the good ol times”. The truth is that NHB/Vale Tudo has been changing constantly since the moment it was introduced to the American market. Heck, its not even called NHB anymore, but mma.

Personally I like the changes. The only problem I have is with TUF fanboys who have been brainwashed into believing that the UFC is the only alternative and have no clue who Chute Boxe are.

Aside from that its all good.

7

XN, I hear what you are saying. I was particularly disappointed with the last UFC. Not so much the Bitter Rivals hype, but Dana White trying to get something going between Silva and Chuck. BUSH.

The fight itself, if it ever comes off, should be great, as will Chuck and Babalu.

As for the edge, I also agree. UFC used to have a serious edge. It has evolved some, and with that evolution, it has lost some of that edge, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Some aspects of this evolution include: weight classes, rounds, rule changes.

So what do we see? It is becoming more refined and with that refining comes a loss of the edge.

For the UFC, I think the issue, at least in the heavy weight division, is a lack of talent. I would like to see more cross-pollenization between UFC - Pride - K1. I think if they opened the whole system up, it would provide a better product, not only for the viewers, but for the athletes and competitors as well.

Some thoughts.

8

Good post, Xen Nova.

9

I agree with Zeb. I’m a life long boxing fan and have witnessed some amazing bouts in my time, but now when I watch, it seems incomplete to me. I still enjoy boxing but it is one dimensional whereas MMA is multi-dimensional. It has the savage beauty that will be drawing more and more people over time.

10

With Pride in the wake of a Yakuza scandal and losing TV coverage and money, TUF here, Pride vs UFC coming soon (maybe THE biggest news of them all), minor leagues getting big time players (like the WFA), who knows where it’s going? There’ll be good and bad things. Hopefully more good things.

I hope the athletic commissions in the US allow for more strikes that are forbidden right now. Quebec athletic commission rules are a great mix of Pride and UFC rules and could easily become the standard, unified MMA rules.

IMO the future is exciting. It takes not that many asswipes to screw it up but overall all looks for the better.

BTW Chad did I miss your last article on MMA training or is it coming later? I cant wait to see your agility drills!!

11

I agree with most of what Xen says and I think that was a excellent post. Xen, the person I think of when you said that was that annoyance “Danny” from The Ultimate Fighter 3 show. I couldn’t believe him.

I disagree on the theatrics, I don’t think they necessarily hurt, and it seems that most people here are far more exposed to UFC than they are to PrideFC. Rent a Total Elimination PrideFC DVD and you will the the light years of difference.

I think when it theatrics and such are used in the right contexts such as the Japanese use it, it can heighten a bout and give it more interest. For example, Pride allows the winner of the fight to speak to the sometimes 40,000 fans, which helps him form a image and personality behind the fighter. It is hard for some to root or get into a fight when every guy is just a blank Xyience shirt wearing, no personality having, slug.

Take Kevin Randleman for example, the man has a electric personality, and he fights the same way. I think the UFC needs not to hype fighters but to allow them to form a personality, and to stop overhyping the ones without stellar talent, in example “Chris Leben” stop hyping him to be some sort of ultra bad ass when he is a above average fighter and not a legend.

12

[quote]nikolo wrote:
I agree with Zeb. I’m a life long boxing fan and have witnessed some amazing bouts in my time, but now when I watch, it seems incomplete to me. I still enjoy boxing but it is one dimensional whereas MMA is multi-dimensional. It has the savage beauty that will be drawing more and more people over time.[/quote]

No Kidding! I tried to watch some boxing on HBO the other night, it was excruitiating.

13

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
But we’re going commercial, and going commercial fast. At what price?
[/quote]

True. Pretty soon its going to be pro-wrestling with all the drama. That and the commercials are damn annoying. After every round we have 4-6 minutes of commercials.

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Prior to it’s recent cool-factor… it had edge.
An edge that I feel it’s losing. You had to search for someone to train you, searching for a fight was an adventure itself. Your gym was a dark dank warehouse with a bloody canvas punching bag or someone’s garage with a few worn out wrestling mats spread on the floor.
[/quote]

…was?

14

The problem for me isn’t the evolution of the sport or the fact that it isn’t “pure” nhb any longer.

I think that there should still be an absolute division like in Pride but thats another issue.

Regardless, I like how the majority of things are moving.

As a matter of fact I don’t disagree with a lot of you… I think we DO need something to anchor the audience into the fighters.

Giving us a personal dynamic allows you to become more emotionally involved in the fight. There’s nothing wrong with that. Hell it’s just good business… You cheer a lot harder when it’s “YOUR” fighter.

But where do we seperate the line between naturally attractive personalities, people who are being groomed, or just made up storylines?

Mayhem Miller for instance is just being himself, but his antics alone have earned him a great deal of a following despite his 1 and only UFC appearance many would LOVE to see more of him. Not only is he a character out of the cage, but inside the cage it shines through as well and even in his style of combat you still see “mayhem”.

Same with Tito, when he first started the bad boy shit it wasn’t towards anyone specific but it got him some definite fans. Say what you will about him, he’s a natural showman.

Kevin Randleman or Forrest Griffin, they haven’t taken the time to develope their character traits as far as marketing them (they just gave Griffin a Xyience sponsorship and called it a day)… but Randleman is a cool motherfucker and Griffin is fucking hilarious. With a little exposure and a little coaching sure they’d be some money makers, people love Griffin’s non-chalant attitude while still maintaining his obvious tenancity beneath the surface of his charisma.

But then there are the character’s like Leben (sorry dude) or whoever else who are mostly a product of good editing and babying. Given chance after chance to develope into a star for the organization. Or Rich Franklin who has undergone the same… When are we going to draw the line or are we going to just give them a matchup and have their opponent throw the fight to give the fighter some legitimacy.

…Hell some claimed that happen with Franklin v. Shamrock already!

My problem isn’t where it’s at now… Right now things are doing well and the future looks bright, but we ARE at a crossroads and I don’t want to have not said anything and have us making the wrong turn even though I saw the turn signal was going in the wrong direction.

Speaking up as fans, not supporting bullshit… It’s all we can do. As big as the sport is getting, there aren’t HUGE massive organizations that control everything like lets say boxing or football. The sport is small enough that a core group of fans can still illicit some change.

as cliche as it sounds, I just want to spread awareness and hope that I’m not the only one. (Which apparently I’m not thank God).

15

[quote]ScrambyEggs wrote:

Xen Nova wrote:
Prior to it’s recent cool-factor… it had edge.
An edge that I feel it’s losing. You had to search for someone to train you, searching for a fight was an adventure itself. Your gym was a dark dank warehouse with a bloody canvas punching bag or someone’s garage with a few worn out wrestling mats spread on the floor.

…was?[/quote]

Haha, at least I JUST moved out the garage :-p

16

There is no hope for MMA, the more popular it gets the more “fluff” will be added to it, then comes more rules upon rules, followed by people who just want to be famous, so that they can then lapdance for the varius product companies.
Hell everyone is using almost the same stratergy in the ring, like there arn’t any other options, when was the last time u saw some on using the ‘neck tie’,
I don even remember.

17

Great post, Xen. You’re very insightful.

Just a thought, I think all MMA fans have a bad taste in their mouth that still persists from UFC 61. Terrible, terrible event. The only exciting thing that happened was Silva/Lidell being announced, but even that was pure bullshit IMO. I sincerely hope Renato Sorbal, a GREAT and dangerous fighter, beats Lidell. He deserves to, after being completely dismissed and disrespected by the entire UFC organization in such a public fashion. Not to mention that Silva has to fight Mirko Cro Cop 8 weeks prior, a fight that left him with broken ribs and out of action the last time it happened. Hopefully the UFC and Dana respond to the considerable flak out there form this event, from both hard core and rainy day fans.

I agree with a lot of what you said. MMA is hovering at the line between a niche sport and the main stream. Basically, the sport has to decide how far it wants to sell itself out to make the transition. As otoko already mentioned, in Japan MMA is mainstream, and the sport has no reason to sell itself out to appeal to a wider audience. Therefore Pride has generally remained truer to the roots of the sport, without all the advertising and scripted promos. I seriously hate fucking Xyience, and have a desire to smash their products onto the floor everytime I see them because of all the shitty advertising I have to put up with.

In America, however, the stigma from the way UFC was promoted in the old days still lingers. Regulatory commissions really put a damper on what the UFC can do. I pray that some day we can see head stomps/soccer kicks/4 point knees because they make the fights twice as exciting. Anyone who has ever seen Sakuraba or Shogun do a flying stomp can attest to that. Most of America still thinks of it as a vile bloodsport. The UFC has went leaps and bounds towards getting MMA accepted in the public, but as Xen noted, it has done so at the expense of the aspects that brought a lot of the hard core fans in. I really think that the UFC has overextended itself, as well. Between TUF, UFN, and the regular events, the talent pool in American MMA is just too small to support what they are trying to do at this time. Hence, we get prophets of doom like Leben and his legions of TUF nuthuggers getting exposed by a mid-tier fighter from Japan.

Because of the talent pool problem, I think that the future will hold much more cross promotinal fights, the two biggest UFC fights this year will have UFC fighters against fighters from other leagues. Hughes vs Gracie was UFC/K-1, and if Silva/Lidell happens it will be UFC/Pride. With Pride in trouble in the home market due to the Yakuza scandal and now coming to America, the WFA starting up with top fighters, the biggest LHW fight in history, possible Showtime/WFA and UFC/HBO deals, I really think it’s too early to figure this out. But if it keeps drifting towards pro-wrestling it will lose me as a fan.

18

Pride fighting is marketed much differently than is UFC. There is less hype and fireworks, which coincidentally, makes me care less about the result of the match.

Just because WWE is fake, does not mean that they don’t know how to entertain an audience. Zuffa has learned this lesson.

Xen, at the end of the day, there are two fighters in a cage with lots of money and fame on the line. The “show” factor attracts viewers, which brings in money. More money is always better for the sport.

19

[quote]oboffill wrote:
Pride fighting is marketed much differently than is UFC. There is less hype and fireworks, which coincidentally, makes me care less about the result of the match.

Just because WWE is fake, does not mean that they don’t know how to entertain an audience. Zuffa has learned this lesson.

Xen, at the end of the day, there are two fighters in a cage with lots of money and fame on the line. The “show” factor attracts viewers, which brings in money. More money is always better for the sport.[/quote]

I think you will find that there are lots of hype and fireworks surrounding Pride, but it’s all in Japan. Some fighters have God-like status amongst the populace. I remember hearing Ray Sefo talk about a 70 year old woman who waited outside his hotel in the pouring rain for hours just to be able to get a glimpse of him. Pride/K-1 has not marketed itself to Americans up to this point, so only the hard core fans who follow the sport religiously understand the drama and signifigance of particular matches. Even for me it’s sometimes hard, as much of the Pride news is all Japanese language. That will change though, thanks to the scandals that have made life more difficult for DSE/K-1 in Japan. But you are right, Pride does not appeal to most people because they don’t recognize the fighters or rivalries. But there is plenty of hype, just watch Silva-Rampage II.

20

Xen, at the end of the day, there are two fighters in a cage with lots of money and fame on the line. The “show” factor attracts viewers, which brings in money. More money is always better for the sport.[/quote]

I disagree. More money is better for the governing federation, rarely the sport. Look at boxing and the NBA.