First, I apologize to otoko for the confusion earlier, there are enough debates in MMA without another striking vs grappling debate going on.
Second, I think Tgunslinger got his point across much better the second time. And, I have to agree with most of his sentiment except for the one about them being just like any other athlete once they hit the streets, they do practice fighting. Fanboys are annoying, I live in Hawaii and trust me, there were plenty of people who thought they were badass before everyone started training jiu-jitsu or Mui Tai or boxing, the advent of MMA has definitely increased the amount of skirmishes(in my opinion.)
Strangely, it is usually the guys who trained for a week or went to a seminar or two who think they are straight up badasses and involved in a lot of the problems. Jiu-jitsu is great, but I wouldn’t think I was ready to rule the streets until I had at least had a blackbelt or some fights under my belt, but some of these guys go to a class and are ready to take on the world.
If I sprinted - I’m really racing against a clock. The same clock that Olympic sprinters race against. It’s impossible to think I’m in the same ball park as them. If I take part in a contact sport - unless I face the same competition as a pro, and sometimes not even then, I can quite readily say “I threw the same technique, I must be just as tough as that guy”. More vicarious fanboy, tough guys. Still rubbish.
Some people like tacky stuff…they decorate their home with awful looking rubbish…they like all the crappy hype so that attracts them to watch something they might not otherwise watch. I will not visit their houses too often and it puts me off watching hyped matches.
Future of MMA? Like boxing…more scandal, more gangsters, more armchair experts, more tackiness. Hidden in the mix though, will always be worthwhile nuggets. And from time to time, legends will rise above the dross and continue to make it worth watching.
[quote]Irish Daza wrote:
Couple of points regarding unrelated posts…
If I sprinted - I’m really racing against a clock. The same clock that Olympic sprinters race against. It’s impossible to think I’m in the same ball park as them. If I take part in a contact sport - unless I face the same competition as a pro, and sometimes not even then, I can quite readily say “I threw the same technique, I must be just as tough as that guy”. More vicarious fanboy, tough guys. Still rubbish.
Some people like tacky stuff…they decorate their home with awful looking rubbish…they like all the crappy hype so that attracts them to watch something they might not otherwise watch. I will not visit their houses too often and it puts me off watching hyped matches.
Future of MMA? Like boxing…more scandal, more gangsters, more armchair experts, more tackiness. Hidden in the mix though, will always be worthwhile nuggets. And from time to time, legends will rise above the dross and continue to make it worth watching.
[/quote]
There have always been crappy fights with a few nuggets. You can’t gurantee a great fight. Take Arlovski-Silvia 3, worst fucking title fight I’ve seen.
Has nothing to do with the marketing. Sometimes fights are great, sometimes they suck.
I don’t know what gangsters and scandals have to do with anything. Do you know something the rest of us don’t?
[quote]Irish Daza wrote:
Couple of points regarding unrelated posts…
If I sprinted - I’m really racing against a clock. The same clock that Olympic sprinters race against. It’s impossible to think I’m in the same ball park as them. If I take part in a contact sport - unless I face the same competition as a pro, and sometimes not even then, I can quite readily say “I threw the same technique, I must be just as tough as that guy”. More vicarious fanboy, tough guys. Still rubbish.
Some people like tacky stuff…they decorate their home with awful looking rubbish…they like all the crappy hype so that attracts them to watch something they might not otherwise watch. I will not visit their houses too often and it puts me off watching hyped matches.
Future of MMA? Like boxing…more scandal, more gangsters, more armchair experts, more tackiness. Hidden in the mix though, will always be worthwhile nuggets. And from time to time, legends will rise above the dross and continue to make it worth watching.
[/quote]
Best post in this thread. I can leave this thread alone now, you summed up everything I wanted to say about this subject very eloquently.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
I think Xen was just alluding to the fact that MMA used to be almost a small club, where everyone kind of knew everyone else. Now that it’s more mainstream you have the punks thinking they are the fucking shit because they have a 40 pound punching bag in their room and watch TUF.
[/quote]
The above is almost exactly what I meant by my statements…
If you are in military service I have respect for you beyond what I can communicate over the internet. You have far more commitment to this country than I believe I can muster, and I thank anyone who is in the military for their service… we’re all deeply indebted.
Being a soldier and an MMA fighter are two entirely different things and I’m not comparing the two in anyway.
The wolf among sheep thing was just an analogy, albeit quite an exaggeration. What I meant is that if you saw an obvious MMA fan before, it was nearly like fightclub. Someone else just see’s a shirt with strange sayings and a guy with some bruises
…meanwhile you saw someone whom you know follows the sport closely, and also takes the same knocks, perhaps even competing themself. You saw the cauliflower ear and knew that he was not to be fucked with rather than just assuming it was a tumor or a keloid.
So perhaps fightclub is a better analogy.
The machoismo type attitude is the entire problem, either from the old school NHB fan who just wanted to see blood and carnage or from the new school MMA fan who practices armlocks on their grandma…
Both go under the same guise of someone who saw a couple video’s and just wear a shirt.
So I by no means am saying that fighters are better than other people and that we should walk around like game pitbulls ready to jump at anyone on our territory.
Quite the opposite, if you are capable of handling yourself… generally you are a pretty humble, all around nice person. To get to the point where you can handle yourself you had to get your ass kicked MANY times. That shuts you up and lets you know that at any point you can be beaten. Though you will have a confidence about you, it (usually) doesn’t cross that thin line into arrogance.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Hope that cleared everything up…
[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
I guess I should refine my first post a little.
When I was talking about the attitude that I dislike, I meant the attitude among fanboys and some amateurs. Not the pros, because heck, I can only name a couple of MMA fighters. I have no idea what the pros’ attitudes are like.
When I see an MMA fight, I see it as a something very similar to boxing. As someone who trains hard (though not for MMA), I can greatly appreciate the skill and athleticism of the competitors even though I don’t find it as entertaining as other sports. But to me, it’s still just a sport, meaning that if these guys got in fights in real life, they would be just as likely to get hammered as nearly every other professional athlete, IMO.
I think that when a veteran MMA fan sees a fight, they see something much more similar to what I see than what Fanboy sees.
I think when a bandwagon MMA fan (Fanboy) sees a fight, he believes these guys are total warriors; some of the best fighters the world has ever seen. Fanboy believes that an MMA champ could beat the holy snot out of anybody, anywhere, anytime, and that only other MMA fighters could challenge him.
Because he believes this, Fanboy then starts practicing MMA, and once he gets even a basic level of proficiency, Fanboy believes that he too has joined the ranks of some of the greatest warriors to ever live. Because of his pride, Fanboy subconsciously tries to show off his ability, and puts on an annoyingly aggresive facade.
So let me be clear in that I hate Fanboy, not the sport of MMA nor the professionals competing in it. All sports have fanboys, but to me there’s something a little different about this current crop of MMA bandwagoners.
A football bandwagoner might believe that football players are heroes, or gridiron gladiators or all that hullaballo, and since this kid is a starting LB for his 3-7 Class B High School Football team, he thinks that he too is a hero. But while he is sometimes overly proud, he still kind of leaves the football stuff on the football field.
The MMA Fanboy, I think, tends to see live as an MMA fight. He brings his MMA attitude into the grocery store, and then gets a little uppity when someone like me accidentally cuts him off in the frozen meat section. Because he feels he is an unbeatable MMA warrior, he might start something a little quicker than a normal kid would.
Fanboy then gets his head beaten in with a frozen ham while I go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon.
So while I exaggerate to make my perspective a little clearer, I find that people like Fanboy take MMA too seriously and their attitude annoys me. So to go back to Xen’s main point, as MMA gets more mainstream, Fanboy’s will get more plentiful and drive people like me away from the sport.
That’s all I meant. I was not intending to disrespect the sport or its athletes, only its uneducated bandwagon fans who have Buyan-esque views of the sport and its competitors.
My $0.02 more.
P.S. to whomever asked, no I have not served in the military. I chose my SN because I read a Stephen King book one time. ;)[/quote]
Very very true… I concur. There are several fighters who on the street have gotten beat down and/or killed.
They’re just human, but yes the MMA fanboy is more than likely going to take things way too seriously. The football guy might argue to the death about his fantasy football team… but even he knows too much talk about it makes him look like a dorkass
an mma fanboy thinks he looks tough. No you look like a fucking asshole, shut the fuck up and stop ruining shit for people who actually appreciate combat sports…
Every MMA fighter I’ve ever met, will never even bring up that they fight… hell they’ll just say that they teach martial arts or “I work at a gym”.
Overly-macho sentiments are a problem in ANY male dominanted arena… from mma to lifting weights to simply racing cars you can encounter the same problems anywhere.
I believe that with the popularity and glorifying of violence in our culture a lot of young males would do well to watch a documentary of sorts like “Tough Guise” by Jackson Katz
I don’t know if TC still does it, but if he has T-man of the year or whatever, then Bas should definitely win. He’s been campaigning for MMA big time this year and “Best Damn Sports Show” loves having him on
He’s not the most articulate guy, but he has charm, charisma and can take a joke.
The best thing is hearing how him and Brian Urlacher (Chicago Bears) almost got into it.
Story goes… (maybe someone can find the interview on google video) That they were both at a Charity event and Bas accidentally stepped on Brian’s shoe.
Bas immediately realized it and said, “wow I’m sorry man” and kept it moving. Brian didn’t like this, and approached Bas about stepping on his shoe, Bas goes ahead and apologizes again and offer’s to buy Brian a beer… He said he doesn’t want any problems, in bas’s words “Come on it’s a charity event”…
Brian basically spits at his offer and asks Bas if he wants to take it outside. By this time some of Bas’ friends are listening in and at the event of asking Bas to fight him they all started laughing histerically.
Bas between laughs go “yes! yes I would!”… Apparently Brian was taken back by this as he probably never had anyone say yes before.
Well Brian is ready to go, (as is Bas obviously)… but some of his friends RUSH over and hold him back explaining to him who Bas is… Urlacher quickly apologizes
Knowing Bas, he still probably ended up buying him a beer.
If you read the interview with him on this site (go through the archives- I think it was back when this place was still called “T-mag” ), I definitely think that Bas is one of those guys who was born with more an unnaturally high Testosterone level.
Kind of stubborn, I take whatever he says as far as S&C with a grain of salt… but otherwise he’s a great resource.
I train Law Enforcement Officers for the State of Florida. One thing MMA has done in the U.S. is change the way that LEO’s look at self defence. We now train lots of BJJ (thanks to the Gracies) and weapon defence from several other arts.
The reason UFC seems to “hype” more is that they are trying to get more people interested to expand the popularity and acceptance. We don’t see as much from PRIDE FC because, we don’t see much PRIDE FC! Another reason is that MMA is already widely accepted in Japan, where it is just trying to grow in the U.S.
As far as the pro fighter or average trainer goes in a street fight…no traditional fighting art was designed to fight someone else who was also trained. They were all to give the edge to the trained over the untrained. MMA as a sport is different of course, but on the street a person who has a good base in any fighting style, especially if they actually fight on a regualr basis (training camps) will have the edge. But in a real fight, anything can happen.
I’m addicted to MMA. I watch PRIDE, UFC, KOTC, IFL, WFA, BJJ tourneys etc as well as train in BJJ, Muay Thai and western boxing. I also work in the Florida prison system, so I get to test my skills on a somewhat regular basis. I wouldn’t dream of starting a fight anywhere, but do feel confident that I can protect myself and others in a more effective manner due to my training. If you were to meet me, you’d never guess I was a trained killer (joking).