How tall are you?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.[/quote]
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
How tall are you?[/quote]
Almost 6’1.
[quote]KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though. [/quote]
He’s not putting you down at all man. You don’t have to defend yourself.
He is saying you didn’t grow in the proportions that a typical split would have/should have produced.
At least that is my interpretation.
[quote]KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though. [/quote]
Big deal, they are still lagging very noticeably. You don’t see this?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.[/quote]
Give him credit for showing definite progress, & even more for not pussying out by “losing his camera,” using artistic lighting, etc.
But yeah, adding in more upper body emphasis now would be a good idea.
FOR FUCK SAKE I’m so sick of bullshit advice given that encourages people to do TBT.
These articles have PRO BODYBUILDERS (who FOLLOW A FUCKING SPLIT BY THE WAY) in them, making readers assume that their goals of muscle gain will be fufilled by crap like what the OP posted.
Also, people need to bump up their own expectations, these programs boast they can put 40-60lbs on a beginner in a year, and make it sound amazing, but guess what… THAT IS FUCKING AVERAGE. When you are 16-25, you can probably shoot for 80lb+ gains in your first year.
People just don’t know their own potential!!
It’s drummed into them by articles that they are hardgainers, and that TBT etc. are the best ways for them to gain, ITS FUCKING SHIT.
I’m passionate about this because if this site was more like how Prof X envisions it to be, I wouldn’t of wasted a year of training following crap bullshit advice (AND I DONT WANT ANYONE ELSE TO EITHER) thinking that I’d ‘overtrain’ and I can’t expect a high rate of muscle gain unless i’m a genetic freak.
People need to stop giving mis-guided advice to sell their crap, people who care about changing their body actually believe it waste their time, it’s a damn fucking shame.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though.
Big deal, they are still lagging very noticeably. You don’t see this?[/quote]
Again more mis-information.
“Why do light weight dumbbell lateral raises when you can put your energy into a barbell overhead press!?” - lame.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though.
Big deal, they are still lagging very noticeably. You don’t see this?[/quote]
I guess so. It’s not like I don’t train them, I do lots of curls and accessory shoulder work.
[quote]KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
[/quote]
To be honest, looks like your legs are the only area where you’ve made real progress in those 18 months. And you don’t need to squat 3 days a week to achieve that either… And whatever strength gains you made were not even remotely enough compared to your weight gain.
50 lbs on your OHP is cool and all, but not if you’re a beginner and it took you 18 months. 50 lbs is only 22.3 or so Kg…
I’m not saying this to put you down though, most people mess up somewhere when they start out without some experienced guy to help them out at their gym.
I would however recommend that you read through some of the threads referenced in the “best of T-Nation” sticky at the top (or close to the top) of the bodybuilding forum and simply consider some of the stuff said in there.
You can train with a high frequency for each bodypart, of course, but a full-body routine is, in my opinion, not such a great idea for that… I’d use at least a 2-way split (not necessarily upper lower either, too much work to do on upper day…).
I’ve found that a good 2-way already works infinitely better than your average full-body(whether cw -minimalist style or old-school 8-12 exercises per day full-body) routine for the majority of people.
Kyle, props for not being afraid to eat/put on a little fat to gain some muscle. But listen to what these guys are trying to tell you and try really taking an objective look at those before and after pictures that you posted.
Notice where there is clearly noticeable improvement; in your torso and upper legs. Notice that there isn’t nearly as much in your shoulders and arms, and practically none in your calves.
Do you think that this is simply a result of your genetics or shape? Or, could it be (as others are alluding to) that the TBT workouts that you have been doing have been too heavily focused on compound lifts and thus have left your arms, shoulders and calves lagging behind? Do you expect those body parts to just magically catch up to the rest of you if you continue doing the same types of workout programs?
You obviously aren’t afraid to work hard and eat big, which is a great start. Don’t make the mistake of taking people trying to help you out and point you in the right direction as putting you down. People like X, countingbeans, BONEZ, Cephalic_Carnage, etc… are really just trying to help you. They’ve been at this a lot longer than you have, listening to what they say would probably be a good idea.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though.
He’s not putting you down at all man. You don’t have to defend yourself.
He is saying you didn’t grow in the proportions that a typical split would have/should have produced.
At least that is my interpretation.
[/quote]
x2 you have shown progress that’s not being disputed, but it would appear that your arms and shoulders did not keep up with the rest of your body. That is the disadvantage of following poorly designed TBT routines, yet even a modestly designed split would probably not have let this happen. I should know, I stayed away from direct shoulder work and arm work for a while when i first started, at first because I was so embarassed at the small weights I had to use, then because I got caught up in that no direct work fad that this site fell into. My arms and shoulders have grown very little since even as far back as a year and a half ago, so obviously now I’m trying to work them hard.
[quote]Mad_Duck wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
Give him credit for showing definite progress, & even more for not pussying out by “losing his camera,” using artistic lighting, etc.
But yeah, adding in more upper body emphasis now would be a good idea. [/quote]
Not even so much upper body emphasis. His torso has grown significantly (I’d bet that he’s added significant inches to his chest measurement).
What he needs to add in is some direct arm work (i.e. curls, triceps extensions, etc…), some direct calf work, and some direct delt work (lateral raises, wide grip upright rows, reverse flyes, etc…). Those are the areas where he is clearly lagging.
[quote]KyleT wrote:
Professor X wrote:
KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though.
Big deal, they are still lagging very noticeably. You don’t see this?
I guess so. It’s not like I don’t train them, I do lots of curls and accessory shoulder work.[/quote]
Just doing them isn’t enough either… You have to get very strong on all your exercises. Pick 2 or so main exercises per muscle-group and try your best to progress on those while also improving your setup and technique.
If you do an exercise after a lot of big exercises that tire you out, you simply won’t be able to do it much justice or learn by yourself how to do it correctly.
The high frequency is also not that grand for progression if you do the same exercises every session… Plus you get the injury/joint/tendon degradation issue.
How many days do you have available for training per week? Not talking about 2 hour sessions here either.
[quote]KyleT wrote:
Professor X wrote:
KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though.
Big deal, they are still lagging very noticeably. You don’t see this?
I guess so. It’s not like I don’t train them, I do lots of curls and accessory shoulder work.[/quote]
What do your numbers look like on those exercises?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
KyleT wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
KyleT wrote:
Here’s another. Notice the legs difference in these pics. This is from squatting 3x per week.
I hope you see that your shoulders and biceps are seriously lagging. Send Chad a thank you note.
I’ll leave it there.
I put 2.5 inches on my arms between those pictures and my shoulder press went up 50 pounds. I’ll tell Chad you said hey though.
He’s not putting you down at all man. You don’t have to defend yourself.
He is saying you didn’t grow in the proportions that a typical split would have/should have produced.
At least that is my interpretation.
[/quote]
Yes.
There is progress there. But even you have to admit that your delts have better shape in the before picture.
I’m not saying you should have been able to keep the shoulder striations while gaining all that weight but you shouldn’t have lost the roundness in your delts.
Thanks for the constructive criticism. Like I said above I wanted to wait another 18 months before I posted photos. At least now I know what I need to work harder on.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
KyleT wrote:
I gained 65 pounds in 18 months using mostly TBT. I LOL at my before pictures. I will eventually post before & after photos when I hit the 2 or 3 year mark.
I gained 150lbs by the age of 17.[/quote]
(X meant to say…“I gained 150lbs SINCE the age of 17”)
Ah, the ever-delightful TBT vs full body split debate. I have been able to make significant gains using a TBT, 3X a week training schedule. I have been able to put on 30 lbs of lean muscle mass using this type of training methodology. And these gains were not attributable to being a “newb”.
When people make such blanket statements as calling TBT users pseudo-athletes that are mediocre at many things and good at nothing, it shows marred thinking patterns. Using compound lifts has, in my experience, facilitated a great stimulus for muscle growth. I train intensely throughout the session, and leave the gym knowing I’ve put forth a great effort every time.
I can certainly squat 3X a week, but I recover quickly and this is aided by a sound diet, good sleeping habits, and appropriate supplementation. When people take on this “us vs them” attitude, they blind themselves to other views and ways of thinking that could prove beneficial.
I’m not just regurgitating things I have seen online or heard others say, I am speaking from empiricism and didactic knowledge obtained in academia. This “pseudo-athlete” viewpoint of using different elements of training is actually an extremely good practice as you learn the more positive aspects of different ways to train. Suddenly, plateaus are overcome when you approach them from a different vantage point.
This is not to say that TBT is the end all be all of training, rather that to argue against it so vehemently is not only pointless, but incorrect. I am not against any training methodology in an of itself, but I will extract the more positive aspects or things that I could see myself applying to ways that I train to incorporate them and learn.
I actually plan on using a split body routine staring in January and look forward to continuing to add on pounds.
Also, when I’m getting super pumped in the curl rack and I wear my posing suit I made from rubber bands, everyone stares at me in awe… I must be doing something right huh?
[quote]KyleT wrote:
Thanks for the constructive criticism. Like I said above I wanted to wait another 18 months before I posted photos. At least now I know what I need to work harder on.[/quote]
It’s good that you did post. You just got some great constructive criticism from a few guys that have built impressive physiques. I respect you for having the balls to put up the pictures. Most people who talk shit on here wouldn’t do that. Honestly though, in the debate of TBT vs. splits, I think the pics actually show why splits would be better.