Is it worthwhile for the raw bencher to do? And also, what is your floor press in relation to your raw bench, smaller or bigger and within what percentage do you think?
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Is it worthwhile for the raw bencher to do? And also, what is your floor press in relation to your raw bench, smaller or bigger and within what percentage do you think?[/quote]
i think its worthwhile if you are weak at the top. i dont think thered be an exact percentage difference
Why not? Raw benchers need to lock out too. Granted, it’s usually not the weak link for a raw bencher, but at worst, floor presses will just give you strong tris. Nothing wrong with that.
Drop the pressdowns as your preferred tri movement and do the floor and board presses. Yeah, baby!
I like floor press with a pause. For whatever reason my sticking point tends to be right at the bottom position of my floor press. So doing it with a pause I feel helps me get extra strength in the area the bar stalls out in.
Something a lot of people don’t think about is that floor presses are different for everyone. When guys like Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, and two of the guys I work out with do floor presses the bar is very close to their chest when in the bottom postion because they are so think or because the have short arms etc.
Since I weigh in at 185-190 I don’t have near the thinkness that my training partners do so the floor press is just like the 2-3 board press. When my elbows hit the bar is no where near my chest.
So if you’re think and short armed then yes the floor press is great. If you are not so think with long(ish) arms then it may not do so much for you. Unless, as already mentioned, you lock out strength sucks. I would,then, use the floor press as an accessory movement or do something else to bring up your triceps. That and work on your bar speed.
I think it probably depends on the weakpoint of the individual and the length of their arms. For those with T-Rex-like short arms, the bar might actually touch their chest at the bottom of the floor press as long as the have a good arch. For me its only a couple inches away from my chest.
-MAtt
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I like floor press with a pause. For whatever reason my sticking point tends to be right at the bottom position of my floor press. So doing it with a pause I feel helps me get extra strength in the area the bar stalls out in.[/quote]
Good point, I’m in a similar position.
Floor press for no one.
Why do them when there are so many better alternatives?
-Dan
Much difference between pin presses in the rack as opposed to floor presses. For some strange reason I am much stronger(50lbs) on pin presses. Could be the ROM?
[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
Floor press for no one.
Why do them when there are so many better alternatives?
-Dan[/quote]
Care to elaborate?
Not trying to be a smart-ass. I’m legit interested in your views on the subject.
for me even close grip floor presses are only about 1-2" from the bottom position and I’m only 170 or so right now.
In Jim Wendler’s benching for strippers article (no bench shirt) he recommends floor presses, along with low board work. Do them with a pause for best results.
Wrong.
Floor presses not only improve tricep strength, but they teach you (if done right) to use your lats as a stabilizer on the descent and a secondary mover on the push. Besides the fact that they are great for building explosive power, since you are starting from a dead spot.
Since when is the floor press considered a lockout exercise? It’s a lower end exercise for me. My raw bench ROM is much shorter due to my arch. I personally LOATHE floor presses but I still do em cuz I suck so bad at em. It’s around 90% of my raw max.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Care to elaborate?
Not trying to be a smart-ass. I’m legit interested in your views on the subject.[/quote]
Sure. I’ll include Antman’s points too.
So does anything that involves pushing.
How would they do this more than a properly executed bench press?
Why not do pin or board presses instead? Also, I’m a little touchy on this because I just tried to read a few poorly done studies on the subject, but floor presses will not increase your ability to do more work more quickly. Movements from a static start on the concentric also tend to be low on the totem pole for increasing RFD.
I don’t dislike floor presses because they don’t do anything, I dislike board presses because they don’t do anything better than a half dozen other exercises.
Let’s take a look at what’s going on in a floor press:
-
You’re lying on the floor. This puts your hips, legs, and spine in different positions than when bench pressing. Already you have altered press mechanics that will “teach” a different recruitment pattern. Scapular pinning is also at an all time high, resulting in some weird things happening in the shoulder girdle.
-
You’re forced to stop before reaching the chest. This engrains two things if used extensively - the descent ends early, so stabilizers as well as prime movers are taught to cut out early, and there’s a solid support surface to stop on. I firmly believe using floor presses a lot is a culprit in instability in the hole for benchers who use them extensively.
-
Risk of injury is higher. It’s not easy to unrack or spot this lift (I’m thinking of blunt trauma to the elbows as the main problem).
So a quick summary:
Pros - improve lockout strength, teach lat recruitment, start from dead stop
Counters - so do a million other exercises, improper recruitment patterns ingrained if used extensively
What to use instead - bench press, bench with chains, isometrics in the desired range, board press, pin press, etc etc.
I realize that occasional use isn’t going to severely damage mechanics in an experienced lifter. They also aren’t going to help much either. Practice lat recruitment when doing full range presses, strengthen the lockout in an unaltered pattern.
That’s my take anyway.
-Dan
They’re nice, and the dumbbell version is a great tricep workout when no one’s around to spot ya.
[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Care to elaborate?
Not trying to be a smart-ass. I’m legit interested in your views on the subject.
Sure. I’ll include Antman’s points too.
Wrong.
Floor presses not only improve tricep strength
So does anything that involves pushing.
, but they teach you (if done right) to use your lats as a stabilizer on the descent and a secondary mover on the push.
How would they do this more than a properly executed bench press?
Besides the fact that they are great for building explosive power, since you are starting from a dead spot.
Why not do pin or board presses instead? Also, I’m a little touchy on this because I just tried to read a few poorly done studies on the subject, but floor presses will not increase your ability to do more work more quickly. Movements from a static start on the concentric also tend to be low on the totem pole for increasing RFD.
I don’t dislike floor presses because they don’t do anything, I dislike board presses because they don’t do anything better than a half dozen other exercises.
Let’s take a look at what’s going on in a floor press:
-
You’re lying on the floor. This puts your hips, legs, and spine in different positions than when bench pressing. Already you have altered press mechanics that will “teach” a different recruitment pattern. Scapular pinning is also at an all time high, resulting in some weird things happening in the shoulder girdle.
-
You’re forced to stop before reaching the chest. This engrains two things if used extensively - the descent ends early, so stabilizers as well as prime movers are taught to cut out early, and there’s a solid support surface to stop on. I firmly believe using floor presses a lot is a culprit in instability in the hole for benchers who use them extensively.
-
Risk of injury is higher. It’s not easy to unrack or spot this lift (I’m thinking of blunt trauma to the elbows as the main problem).
So a quick summary:
Pros - improve lockout strength, teach lat recruitment, start from dead stop
Counters - so do a million other exercises, improper recruitment patterns ingrained if used extensively
What to use instead - bench press, bench with chains, isometrics in the desired range, board press, pin press, etc etc.
I realize that occasional use isn’t going to severely damage mechanics in an experienced lifter. They also aren’t going to help much either. Practice lat recruitment when doing full range presses, strengthen the lockout in an unaltered pattern.
That’s my take anyway.
-Dan[/quote]
Gotta agree with you on this one. I actually tore my pec the first time on a floor press.
I still cycle them through occasionally but usually use chain and moderate intensity.
IMO only, I truely like to do floor presses with db’s. They are great for stabilization, and it also let’s you do something different. Just remember to go down slowly as to not bounce your elbows off the floor.
Per Louie:
“Explosive strength can be developed by using moderate resistance with maximum speed. This is the dynamic method. Two simple training methods to accompany the dynamic method are the box squat for squatting and pulling strength and the floor press with dumbbells or a barbell. For both exercises, after the eccentric phase, many of the muscles are in a relaxed state. This is followed by any explosive concentric motion. This will increase the rate of force development (RFD). We also find that maximum concentric work also increases RFD. With the use of extremely heavy weights, bar velocity may be slow, but nevertheless, overcoming a large load dynamically causes a fast RFD.”
Per Wendler:
"Here is a list of great max effort exercises for the raw bencher:
Floor Press
2 Board Press
Incline Press
Bench Press
1 Board Press
Stick with these five exercises during your max effort cycles."
Pin presses involve no eccentric motion which creates a stretch reflex in the muscle.
Board presses allow you to feel the weight on your chest. Floor presses do not.
Floor presses should be done with a medium or close grip for maximum effectiveness. I do them medium grip and my chest is involved very little when pressing. Most benching is done with a full/wide grip. All your muscles are working together to stabilize the weight, therefore your lats don’t get as much work as they could.
By that logic, board presses and pin presses are also “culprits for instability in the hole”.
Are you serious? This is one of the easiest and safest lifts to spot. At lockout/liftoff the bar is about at my knee level - pretty easy to do a deadlift rack lockout from that position if I need to give assistance to the lifter. As far as elbow trauma, you shouldn’t be slamming your elbows to the floor anyway. Just touching will suffice. If you’re that fragile, find another sport.
So does decline & incline, especially if you arch on the bench.
Floor Presses are alot like box squats. An eccentric motion, a pause and relaxing of tension, then an explosive concentric press.
What many fail to realize is that the conjugate method emphasizes finding exercises that mimic the classic lift, to train the motion while preventing overtraining. The Floor Press accomplishes this quite well.
Most successful gyms (WSB, MM, NGBB, etc.), notable strength coaches (Simmons, Wendler, Tate, etc), and top benchers all use floor preses in their training cycle. I can’t imagine why they’d do that if the exercise didn’t work.
ive found the dumbell or kettlebell version to be great from the floor.
In addition to the mentioned benefits, i find floor presses help drill staying tight under the weight - critical to benching and overlooked a little imo.
Give it a try, and if its not for you then skip it. I think sometimes a little common sense goes amiss in searching for a good exercise. If you progress well with no niggles - keep it and use it in your arsenal. If not, fuck it off and dont bother.
[quote]Antman517 wrote:
Per Louie:
“Explosive strength can be developed by using moderate resistance with maximum speed. This is the dynamic method. Two simple training methods to accompany the dynamic method are the box squat for squatting and pulling strength and the floor press with dumbbells or a barbell. For both exercises, after the eccentric phase, many of the muscles are in a relaxed state. This is followed by any explosive concentric motion. This will increase the rate of force development (RFD). We also find that maximum concentric work also increases RFD. With the use of extremely heavy weights, bar velocity may be slow, but nevertheless, overcoming a large load dynamically causes a fast RFD.”
Per Wendler:
"Here is a list of great max effort exercises for the raw bencher:
Floor Press
2 Board Press
Incline Press
Bench Press
1 Board Press
Stick with these five exercises during your max effort cycles."
Why not do pin or board presses instead?
Pin presses involve no eccentric motion which creates a stretch reflex in the muscle.
Board presses allow you to feel the weight on your chest. Floor presses do not.
How would they do this more than a properly executed bench press?
Floor presses should be done with a medium or close grip for maximum effectiveness. I do them medium grip and my chest is involved very little when pressing. Most benching is done with a full/wide grip. All your muscles are working together to stabilize the weight, therefore your lats don’t get as much work as they could.
-
You’re forced to stop before reaching the chest. This engrains two things if used extensively - the descent ends early, so stabilizers as well as prime movers are taught to cut out early, and there’s a solid support surface to stop on. I firmly believe using floor presses a lot is a culprit in instability in the hole for benchers who use them extensively.
By that logic, board presses and pin presses are also “culprits for instability in the hole”. -
Risk of injury is higher. It’s not easy to unrack or spot this lift (I’m thinking of blunt trauma to the elbows as the main problem).
Are you serious? This is one of the easiest and safest lifts to spot. At lockout/liftoff the bar is about at my knee level - pretty easy to do a deadlift rack lockout from that position if I need to give assistance to the lifter. As far as elbow trauma, you shouldn’t be slamming your elbows to the floor anyway. Just touching will suffice. If you’re that fragile, find another sport.
You’re lying on the floor. This puts your hips, legs, and spine in different positions than when bench pressing
So does decline & incline, especially if you arch on the bench.
Floor Presses are alot like box squats. An eccentric motion, a pause and relaxing of tension, then an explosive concentric press.
What many fail to realize is that the conjugate method emphasizes finding exercises that mimic the classic lift, to train the motion while preventing overtraining. The Floor Press accomplishes this quite well.
Most successful gyms (WSB, MM, NGBB, etc.), notable strength coaches (Simmons, Wendler, Tate, etc), and top benchers all use floor preses in their training cycle. I can’t imagine why they’d do that if the exercise didn’t work.
[/quote]
Ya know, bro instead of quoting Louie and Wendler and trying to be all research based, why don’t you tell us your expeerience.
This site is full of yo-yo’s who instantly recommend whatever they last read off elitefts.com as the magic elixir for everybody’s problems and it gets pretty tiring.
Personally, in the absence of leg drive I have a difficult time getting up on my traps and my chest high enough to achieve a position were I am at the greatest advantage to lower with my lats.
As I mentioned before, the first time I tore my pec it was on floor press, and I can assure you my form wasn’t that off.
Floor pressing is a much more pure pressing movement because of what I mentioned above (lack of leg drive, inability to hold a meaningful arch in the lower or upper back) and anybody who says their pecs are virtually eliminated from the movement is either full of shit, thin as a sheet of paper from front to back, or have just not spent enough time to figure out where the rubber hits the road.
When I do floor press, the bar is about 1 inch from my chest. If I arch hard, it touches. Now explain to me how I eliminate pec involvement? Actually, don’t even try because you cannot.
Blah, blah, blah. I am sick of people reguritating things they read with seemingly little experience actually doing it themselves, not to mention coaching other lifters beyond the beginner stage, and preaching it as gospel.
Why you have even entered into this little academic pissing match is beyond me.
To the OP, like supermick said, give it a try and see what happens. It may or may not work and honestly, nobody here can give you that great of an opinion either way.