[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Yeah, I’m posting “just to disagree.”
Perhaps you can find a group of powerlifters and try asking them how many pounds each gets off of leg drive. If the average answer is 5 lb then you are right.
What would this have to do with anything? Why are we assuming these powerlifters have a clue what they are talking about? It is pretty easy to confuse leg drive with a solid base of support.
I’d be astounded if that is your average reply, unless you pick a really odd group to ask. So, I think, would most of the rest of us.
So would I, that is part of the problem. A bunch of people not knowing what they are doing following what the next guy does and taking his words as gospel while not thinking critically at all.
Your post implied that your figure is based on results from others: my statement that I expected there was filtered bias is a way of accounting for how your statement could seem correct to you, while not being correct. E.g. if you keep in mind only results from those that agree with you, then it may indeed seem that the average powerlifter gains only 5 lb from leg drive.
But, if there is this filtered bias, the actual average is 5 lb only of those you asked or those you remember.
Though frankly it seems surprising to me you would have asked this question of any large number of lifters in the first place. Not saying you didn’t, but it seems surprising.
I havn’t asked many people this question directly. Often just through casual conversation their stance on leg drive has become apparent. Often their opinion is in fact that leg drive contributes greatly.
The issue is that most of these guys have hand me down information from others who are fumbling along also doing what the next guy is doing. They aren’t thinking critically about why they are doing what they’re doing etc.
Funny how you think that if someone disagrees with you, they must be disagreeing with you just because they like to disagree.
I don’t think if someone disagrees with me that they are doing it for the sake of it. I suggested that it seemed that way. I didn’t say you were, I said it seemed that way. They are two different things. I suggested this because you are focussing on how I come to my conclusion rather than focussing on what we are discussing.
I challenge you to explain how leg drive works from a biomechanical point of view. This is what we are talking about. If you wish to prove me wrong it would be more obvious if you made it clear that my statements were incorrect.
You don’t even seem to recognize it as a possibility that perhaps your experience does not match others.
My experience doesn’t come into it. Of course my experience my differ to others, regardless leg drive either contributes greatly and can be explained or it cannot.
GETSTRENGTH wrote:
You are assuming I am rejecting the notoin of leg drive based on being unable to figure out how it could work. As I stated in a previous post, rejecting something and not understanding it are not necessarily correlated. At no point did I say I will ignore leg drive because I cannot figure out how it could contribute.
No, you said:
My argument that leg drive is in no way retarded. I based it on a degree in exercise science with a miomechanics major.
Obviously that has you claiming that a “degree in exercise science” etc was the basis for your claim. That does not differ substantively if at all from how I described what you were doing.
Clearly, if that education had you understanding how it worked then you wouldn’t have made your post, and you’ve made clear you don’t understand how it works, and base your rejection on that being your conclusion from your school education.
This is partly true. If my education had me understanding how leg drive contributed substantially then yes I would not have made my post. The problem is: my education does not leave me wondering how it could work, it leaves me knowing it does not contribute greatly. I can accept this to be wrong but in order to do so, someone who can explain how leg drive works will be needed. We are still lacking this.
This is part of why I said you seemed to be disagreeing for the sake of it. You don’t appear to know how leg drive is supposed to work, you also don’t appear to know how it is doe snot make sense mechanically. You are picking apart how I came up with my statements while not actually refuting the statements or offering an explanation on leg drive and how it contributes.
If anyone is disagreeing just to disagree, it’s you, now claiming that this wasn’t your reason when before you said it was.
What do you mean? I did not state that I am disagreeing for the sake of it.
Waste of time. Therefore, finis. I’m sure few here bought into your claim that leg drive is in general worth only about 5 lb: therefore responding further to it is not something I need to continue with. It is only you that is confused, and your opinion will not change no matter what is said, I am pretty sure.[/quote]
It does not matter if many people bought my claims. I posted to offer my view on something for the benefit of the original poster.
This is interesting: just because the masses believe something or have a certain opinion does not make it any more relevant or likely to be true than if few people hold an opinion. At one point everyone believe the earth to be flat. Heck people still believe in god.
Please if you have issue with my statements, would you clarify how leg drive contributes a large amount of force to the bench press. That would really shut me up.