Floor Press For Raw Bencher?

[buffalokilla]

[quote]Antman517 wrote:
Per Louie:
"Explosive strength can be developed by using moderate resistance with maximum speed.
[/quote]

This is true.

This is the dynamic method.

Sure, why not. Power and similar terms aren’t used in a standard way in the scientific literature either, why not throw something new into the mix.

Two simple training methods to accompany the dynamic method are the box squat for squatting and pulling strength and the floor press with dumbbells or a barbell. For both exercises, after the eccentric phase, many of the muscles are in a relaxed state.

If this is true, you’re in trouble. What are these many relaxed muscles, anyway?

This is followed by any explosive concentric motion.

It’s followed by an attempted explosive concentric, to be more precise.

This will increase the rate of force development (RFD).

A LOT of things increase RFD. This type of movement is pretty low on the spectrum. Better things would by pliometric type exercises, drop pushups, wheelbarrow exercises, etc.

We also find that maximum concentric work also increases RFD.

No he doesn’t. They don’t measure it.

With the use of extremely heavy weights, bar velocity may be slow, but nevertheless, overcoming a large load dynamically causes a fast RFD

True. But, again, not the best way.

Per Wendler:
"Here is a list of great max effort exercises for the raw bencher:

Floor Press
2 Board Press
Incline Press
Bench Press
1 Board Press

Take out the floor press and I like that list.

Why not do pin or board presses instead?

Pin presses involve no eccentric motion which creates a stretch reflex in the muscle.

Isn’t the point of floor presses to break the eccentric/concentric cycle? That would inhibit the stretch reflex.

Board presses allow you to feel the weight on your chest. Floor presses do not.

Do you mean feel as in “lots of stress on the pecs” or physical contact?

Floor presses should be done with a medium or close grip for maximum effectiveness.

Why?

I do them medium grip and my chest is involved very little when pressing.

So you do close-grip floor presses? To what end?

Most benching is done with a full/wide grip. All your muscles are working together to stabilize the weight, therefore your lats don’t get as much work as they could.

I don’t understand this statement at all. Can you explain why lats wouldn’t get more work using a heavier load through a fuller range of motion in a regular bench?

By that logic, board presses and pin presses are also “culprits for instability in the hole”.

Less so though. The groove is the same.

Are you serious? This is one of the easiest and safest lifts to spot. At lockout/liftoff the bar is about at my knee level - pretty easy to do a deadlift rack lockout from that position if I need to give assistance to the lifter. As far as elbow trauma, you shouldn’t be slamming your elbows to the floor anyway. Just touching will suffice. If you’re that fragile, find another sport.

Spotting is tough because there’s no room for error. If the lifter fails on the eccentric or at the beginning of the concentric, boom. That’s all I was getting at.

You’re lying on the floor. This puts your hips, legs, and spine in different positions than when bench pressing

So does decline & incline, especially if you arch on the bench.

But they’re different enough from the flat bench that it wouldn’t interfere. Think in terms of using cable wood choppers instead of a weighted baseball bat for a baseball player.

Floor Presses are alot like box squats. An eccentric motion, a pause and relaxing of tension, then an explosive concentric press.

How does this tension relax? Why does it matter?

What many fail to realize is that the conjugate method emphasizes finding exercises that mimic the classic lift, to train the motion while preventing overtraining. The Floor Press accomplishes this quite well.

Other things accomplish it better. Understand that I don’t think they’re a worthless exercise, just that there’s better to use.

Most successful gyms (WSB, MM, NGBB, etc.), notable strength coaches (Simmons, Wendler, Tate, etc)

Easy there, there are a LOT more strength coaches out there than the ones involved in powerlifting. Most actually don’t, because most are involved in sports other than PL. Anyway, even the best make mistakes/don’t do things perfectly, that’s a pretty empty argument.

, and top benchers all use floor preses in their training cycle. I can’t imagine why they’d do that if the exercise didn’t work.

See above. If they’re gaining on a particular program, they’ll stick with it. That doesn’t mean every little thing in the program is optimal.

Anyway, Mick’s advice is probably the best balanced here. If you really want to try it OP, give it a shot. Just be aware that it doesn’t do exactly what Louie thinks it does and that there are some significant dangers. If you try it and for whatever reason your bench skyrockets, use them if you want. I’d just recommend a different route.

-Dan

[CollinAshmore]

Changed my mind. Sorry for taking up the space.

Collin

[GermanPower]

[quote]Scottish 190 wrote:
Something a lot of people don’t think about is that floor presses are different for everyone. When guys like Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, and two of the guys I work out with do floor presses the bar is very close to their chest when in the bottom postion because they are so think or because the have short arms etc.

Since I weigh in at 185-190 I don’t have near the thinkness that my training partners do so the floor press is just like the 2-3 board press. When my elbows hit the bar is no where near my chest.

So if you’re think and short armed then yes the floor press is great. If you are not so think with long(ish) arms then it may not do so much for you. Unless, as already mentioned, you lock out strength sucks. I would,then, use the floor press as an accessory movement or do something else to bring up your triceps. That and work on your bar speed.[/quote]

very good statement, very important because a lot of people do not know about that, they are huge and when they do floor press the bar almost touches the chest, when I do floor press it is almost as a lockout, pin press

I do not do them at all, I rather do dumbbell work

[Antman517]

[quote]Floor pressing is a much more pure pressing movement because of what I mentioned above (lack of leg drive, inability to hold a meaningful arch in the lower or upper back) and anybody who says their pecs are virtually eliminated from the movement is either full of shit, thin as a sheet of paper from front to back, or have just not spent enough time to figure out where the rubber hits the road.

When I do floor press, the bar is about 1 inch from my chest. If I arch hard, it touches. Now explain to me how I eliminate pec involvement? Actually, don’t even try because you cannot.

Blah, blah, blah. I am sick of people reguritating things they read with seemingly little experience actually doing it themselves, not to mention coaching other lifters beyond the beginner stage, and preaching it as gospel.[/quote]
You don’t know me or my lifting history, so you can’t say I’m full of shit.
I never said I eliminated pec involvement. I said I virtually eliminated/greatly reduced it. The closer you come to close grip, the less you use your pecs. I thought with your “expertise”, you’d have known that.
I have plenty of experience. I also have plenty of reasearch to back up what I do and why I do it. I read everything I can and try to understand the principles behind it. My focus is powerlifting, so I could give a rat’s ass less what the strength coach at XYZ University thinks. I quote certain schools of thought because that is what I follow. I’m a triple-bodyweight bencher who has been lifting since 1987 and competing since 1995. I read, experiment, and listen to those with more success or knowledge than me. I do think I am more than qualified to address the subject of this thread.

Why you have even entered into this little academic pissing match is beyond me.

It’s a debate. Besides, YOU got in it didn’t you?

It’s followed by an attempted explosive concentric, to be more precise

OMFG. Every lift is “attempted” until you actually do it.

[quote]We also find that maximum concentric work also increases RFD.
No he doesn’t. They don’t measure it[/quote]
So, now you’re going to tell him what he does and doesn’t do?

True. But, again, not the best way

So, according to you the best way is what?

[quote]By that logic, board presses and pin presses are also “culprits for instability in the hole”.
Less so though. The groove is the same[/quote]
It better not be or you are doing all of them wrong. Boards, floors, and pins can either be the main lift or an “accessory” movement, done with a medium-to-close grip, with the primary focus being tricep development.

[quote]I do them medium grip and my chest is involved very little when pressing.
So you do close-grip floor presses? To what end?[/quote]
Mainly as a maximum effort exercise once every 2-3 weeks. Occasionally as an assistance exercise.

Isn’t the point of floor presses to break the eccentric/concentric cycle? That would inhibit the stretch reflex

You aren’t pausing for 5 seconds or anything. More of a touch, relax for a split second, and drive up. Most lifters can retain the stretch for 2-4 seconds.

Do you mean feel as in “lots of stress on the pecs” or physical contact?

Tha act of actually feeling the pressure in your chest from the weight bearing down on you.

[quote]Floor presses should be done with a medium or close grip for maximum effectiveness.
Why? [/quote]
Because it is not a chest exercise. It is a tricep exercise.