Okay I have been arguing with myself the past few months about whether or not I should start my first cycle. If I did I would probably look something like this (pending further criticisms):
Weeks 1-8: 500 mg/week of Test E or prop?
Weeks 9-10: 100 mg/week test E or prop?
PCT? Should I just tapper off with the test?
Also I will keep A’dex on hand just in case anything pops up.
I am 20 years old, 6’4" 220 lbs
Now the questions that have been haunting me. I am going to Bermuda with my brother at the beginning of june and of course I want to put on a few extra lbs of muscle for the beach. Should I be okay with my body composition after the cycle?
I am afraid that I may do too much of a bulking when thats not what I want to do for the summer… I’m sure all can relate. I also have access to Clenbuterol and I have read good things about it and was wondering if I should just cycle on and off of this to get ripped out?
Another thing, I read that the Clen has a little bit of an anabolic effect. Has anyone used it or can give me a little more in site? Last, Is there much difference between test e and prop besides the half life and the price?
Thanks in advanced for any information.
You body comp at the end of your cycle as far as bulk goes is going to depend entirely on your diet. As far as your cycle goes its not long enough if you’re planning on running enanthate. Clen IMO= no good. many people have different opinions but i wouldn’t put it in my body. As far as test e and prop differences your looking at E3D injecs with enan and ED-EOD injects with prop. Many report less bloat/ water retention with Prop.
[quote]Game_over wrote:
You body comp at the end of your cycle as far as bulk goes is going to depend entirely on your diet. As far as your cycle goes its not long enough if you’re planning on running enanthate. Clen IMO= no good. many people have different opinions but i wouldn’t put it in my body. As far as test e and prop differences your looking at E3D injecs with enan and ED-EOD injects with prop. Many report less bloat/ water retention with Prop.[/quote]
Thanks. The thing is with making my cycle longer is that I am kind of pressed for time. I have about 14 weeks until I leave so I wouldn’t be done with my PCT by then and i’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to take any of this on the plane. These were just thoughts of mine.
I have been reading a lot on what should be used first to test the waters and test is the general consensus. Do you think that a shorter cycle of say Winstrol or trenbolone would be more efficient at the moment or do you just suggest I just wait until I return? Why is your opinion of Clen so one sided, if you don’t mind me asking? Also what would be something similar with the same affect on fat?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks.
[quote]YoungBull wrote:
Thanks. The thing is with making my cycle longer is that I am kind of pressed for time. I have about 14 weeks until I leave so I wouldn’t be done with my PCT by then and i’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to take any of this on the plane. These were just thoughts of mine.
I have been reading a lot on what should be used first to test the waters and test is the general consensus. Do you think that a shorter cycle of say Winstrol or trenbolone would be more efficient at the moment or do you just suggest I just wait until I return? Why is your opinion of Clen so one sided, if you don’t mind me asking? Also what would be something similar with the same affect on fat?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks. [/quote]
Questions are a good thing, the ones that get flamed are the ones that are so set in there ways that they wont take any advice. With the amount of time you have you could do a sufficient Prop cycle wtih PCT. now there are a couple drawbacks if you want to call them that as you’ll be injecting ED-EOD that can become a pain in the ass, both figuratively and literally, Especially with this being your first.
My opinion would be to tell you to wait untill you got back. this Will be hard i understand but best when the time comes. as for the mention of a winstrol or tren cycle thats a no go, the winstrol by itslef isnt really a smart move and trust me you dotn want anything to do with tren yet lol, World is going rounds with tren right now and hes very experienced and still contemplating dropping it. Stick with the 250mg E3D test E for 12 weeks with either a taper or Nolva/ clomid PCT. Wait until you get back
[quote]Game_over wrote:
YoungBull wrote:
Thanks. The thing is with making my cycle longer is that I am kind of pressed for time. I have about 14 weeks until I leave so I wouldn’t be done with my PCT by then and i’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to take any of this on the plane. These were just thoughts of mine.
I have been reading a lot on what should be used first to test the waters and test is the general consensus. Do you think that a shorter cycle of say Winstrol or trenbolone would be more efficient at the moment or do you just suggest I just wait until I return? Why is your opinion of Clen so one sided, if you don’t mind me asking? Also what would be something similar with the same affect on fat?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks.
Questions are a good thing, the ones that get flamed are the ones that are so set in there ways that they wont take any advice. With the amount of time you have you could do a sufficient Prop cycle wtih PCT. now there are a couple drawbacks if you want to call them that as you’ll be injecting ED-EOD that can become a pain in the ass, both figuratively and literally, Especially with this being your first.
My opinion would be to tell you to wait untill you got back. this Will be hard i understand but best when the time comes. as for the mention of a winstrol or tren cycle thats a no go, the winstrol by itslef isnt really a smart move and trust me you dotn want anything to do with tren yet lol, World is going rounds with tren right now and hes very experienced and still contemplating dropping it. Stick with the 250mg E3D test E for 12 weeks with either a taper or Nolva/ clomid PCT. Wait until you get back [/quote]
Thanks a bunch for the advice. I will def wait until I get back I was just debating and all i needed was a push in either direction. This will also give me more time to gather information and become a little more educated on the subject.
How long are you going to be in Bermuda? If it is 2 weeks, or less, and you plan on running a conventional PCT, you could run a decent little Test E cycle. Stop the injections the day before you leave, and start your PCT the standard 2 weeks after the last test E injection.
If you keep you diet tight, you shouldn’t have much of a bloat problem.
I did prop for my first cycle, and you get real tired of poking yourself everyday real quick. Test E is probably the best first cycle period.
Like I said - just playing devils advocate. You got some solid advice already.
You can never learn enough about AAS and its uses trust me. It sucks waiting until you get back trust me ive been in those time crunch situations before and it KILLS me but trust me you’ll be much happier
[quote]rainjack wrote:
How long are you going to be in Bermuda? If it is 2 weeks, or less, and you plan on running a conventional PCT, you could run a decent little Test E cycle. Stop the injections the day before you leave, and start your PCT the standard 2 weeks after the last test E injection.
If you keep you diet tight, you shouldn’t have much of a bloat problem.
I did prop for my first cycle, and you get real tired of poking yourself everyday real quick. Test E is probably the best first cycle period.
Like I said - just playing devils advocate. You got some solid advice already. [/quote]
Damn RJ i didnt even think of that?! nice going he has a good point Depending on the exact amount of time you have before you leave and how long your going to be there you could do a test e cycle with PCT no problem at all?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
How long are you going to be in Bermuda? If it is 2 weeks, or less, and you plan on running a conventional PCT, you could run a decent little Test E cycle. Stop the injections the day before you leave, and start your PCT the standard 2 weeks after the last test E injection.
If you keep you diet tight, you shouldn’t have much of a bloat problem.
I did prop for my first cycle, and you get real tired of poking yourself everyday real quick. Test E is probably the best first cycle period.
Like I said - just playing devils advocate. You got some solid advice already. [/quote]
I’m going for 9 days and I leave exactly 15 weeks from Tuesday. So you think it would be good for me to start in three weeks and I should be all set? Then I would have a 12 week cycle (if that is not too long) and then I will start my PCT when I get back? It feels like Christmas.
Would I lose a lot of my gains by doing my PCT the conventional way instead of tappering off? Also you think I will be in much risk if I drink on my vacation seeing how this could be very harsh on my liver?
Thanks!
Assuming you already have the gear or have easy access to it then ya if im not mistaken that should work out perfect. you’ll get a good 500mg/week test E cycle in and your two weeks will go by in a snap considering you’ll be gone most the time. You’re planning on injecting so there wont be anything hitting your liver like if you were on orals. no worries there on the drinking aspect.
and as far as losing gains with conventional PCT your running 12 weeks of a long estered testosterone bro your DEFINITELY not going to lose all your gains. just keep your diet up and in check and dont try to keep the insane intensity up that you can do while on AAS when your off, it just doesnt work like that.
Nice job RJ i totally missed this option.
[quote]YoungBull wrote:
I’m going for 9 days and I leave exactly 15 weeks from Tuesday. So you think it would be good for me to start in three weeks and I should be all set? Then I would have a 12 week cycle (if that is not too long) and then I will start my PCT when I get back? It feels like Christmas.
Would I lose a lot of my gains by doing my PCT the conventional way instead of tappering off? Also you think I will be in much risk if I drink on my vacation seeing how this could be very harsh on my liver?
Thanks![/quote]
Bingo. Perfect timing.
Some folks around here are pretty dogmatic about tapering. I have never tapered and see no real benefit to it other than you ease off real slow.
Take it for what it’s worth, but I wouldn’t worry about losing any gains, not in two weeks. Traditional PCT has worked for years. There must be something to it.
As for drinking -
Dude. You are going to being freaking Bermuda. Eat. Drink. Be Merry. Leave the BBing shit behind for two weeks and have a blast. You won’t hurt your liver. I went to Cancun last Christmas immediately post cycle and drank like a damn fish for 6 days. I’m still here, and my liver is just fine.
[quote]Game_over wrote:
Assuming you already have the gear or have easy access to it then ya if im not mistaken that should work out perfect. you’ll get a good 500mg/week test E cycle in and your two weeks will go by in a snap considering you’ll be gone most the time. You’re planning on injecting so there wont be anything hitting your liver like if you were on orals. no worries there on the drinking aspect.
and as far as losing gains with conventional PCT your running 12 weeks of a long estered testosterone bro your DEFINITELY not going to lose all your gains. just keep your diet up and in check and dont try to keep the insane intensity up that you can do while on AAS when your off, it just doesnt work like that.
Nice job RJ i totally missed this option.[/quote]
Thanks for everything so far.
A few more questions
My PCT cycle would look something like this?
Nolva 20mg for four weeks?
Also I’m going to keep a’dex on had during the cycle.
Workouts during the cycle… should they be any different mechanics wise or will I see optimal gains with a good bodybuilding program?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
YoungBull wrote:
I’m going for 9 days and I leave exactly 15 weeks from Tuesday. So you think it would be good for me to start in three weeks and I should be all set? Then I would have a 12 week cycle (if that is not too long) and then I will start my PCT when I get back? It feels like Christmas.
Would I lose a lot of my gains by doing my PCT the conventional way instead of tappering off? Also you think I will be in much risk if I drink on my vacation seeing how this could be very harsh on my liver?
Thanks!
Bingo. Perfect timing.
Some folks around here are pretty dogmatic about tapering. I have never tapered and see no real benefit to it other than you ease off real slow.
Take it for what it’s worth, but I wouldn’t worry about losing any gains, not in two weeks. Traditional PCT has worked for years. There must be something to it.
As for drinking -
Dude. You are going to being freaking Bermuda. Eat. Drink. Be Merry. Leave the BBing shit behind for two weeks and have a blast. You won’t hurt your liver. I went to Cancun last Christmas immediately post cycle and drank like a damn fish for 6 days. I’m still here, and my liver is just fine. [/quote]
Thanks for the advice man it is greatly appreciated!
[quote]YoungBull wrote:
Thanks for everything so far.
A few more questions
My PCT cycle would look something like this?
Nolva 20mg for four weeks?
Also I’m going to keep a’dex on had during the cycle.
Workouts during the cycle… should they be any different mechanics wise or will I see optimal gains with a good bodybuilding program?[/quote]
I actually like going with 40mg ED for the first two weeks then 20mg ED for the next two. i just like the way i feel better but it could just be in my head. im sure you’d be just fine with 20mg ED for 4 weeks. A-dex is always good to have on hand.
Your going to find your recovery time is next to none compared to now. alter your workouts accordingly. As long as you have a good diet and good program you’ll see gains no doubt about it. there are a ton of soild programs both posted and written about on here if you need one.
[quote]Game_over wrote:
YoungBull wrote:
Thanks for everything so far.
A few more questions
My PCT cycle would look something like this?
Nolva 20mg for four weeks?
Also I’m going to keep a’dex on had during the cycle.
Workouts during the cycle… should they be any different mechanics wise or will I see optimal gains with a good bodybuilding program?
I actually like going with 40mg ED for the first two weeks then 20mg ED for the next two. i just like the way i feel better but it could just be in my head. im sure you’d be just fine with 20mg ED for 4 weeks. A-dex is always good to have on hand.
Your going to find your recovery time is next to none compared to now. alter your workouts accordingly. As long as you have a good diet and good program you’ll see gains no doubt about it. there are a ton of soild programs both posted and written about on here if you need one.
[/quote]
I’m sorry to ask again I just searched for these programs and I couldn’t find them with the search tool. Maybe you could point me in the right direction.
All this is amazing thanks GO and RJ
I myself like westside routines but im partial as westside barbell is only an hour away and 5 or 6 of the elite members workout at my gym, so ive seen what it can do. But theres all different kinds it really depends what your wanting out of this cycle, theres DC training to WS4SB just look up articles by CT and you could even google routines. some people dont need a set in stone routine but on the other hand some do you just have to know yourself.
[quote]Game_over wrote:
I myself like westside routines but im partial as westside barbell is only an hour away and 5 or 6 of the elite members workout at my gym, so ive seen what it can do. But theres all different kinds it really depends what your wanting out of this cycle, theres DC training to WS4SB just look up articles by CT and you could even google routines. some people dont need a set in stone routine but on the other hand some do you just have to know yourself.[/quote]
I am on a routine by CT at the moment, but the problem with this is that it is a hip dominant, upper vertical, quad dominant, upper horizontal split. So I mean I suppose I am hitting the muscles twice a week on day harder than the other, but while on test my recovery should be ridic so shouldn’t I hit every muscle hard probably around 2-3 times a week? Also I am someone who needs to have a set routine a week before I go on it. lol I dont know why, but thats how I am. I am sure that I wont hurt me to stay on this program, but I feel that something else is probably needed to get optimal results.
My goal is to gain some muscle while staying defined.
Another thing, I was thinking about is if I was a little worried about developing gynec would it be beneficial to maybe start a’dex 2-3 weeks into my cycle at .25 mg EOD and discontinue when I end my cycle? I know it depends on how I react to the test, but my brother kind of has a lot of fat around his chest and I haven’t ever been as cut as I am now. Just a thought, would appreciate some feedback 
Wow, there has really been an influx of tall guys this week! Young bull, you could probably put on 10-15 lbs naturally before your vacation by upping your calories and doing a good 5X5 program that has you squatting 3 days per week. Trust me, I know. You will be well served to squat and DL a bunch, and I’m willing to bet you’d get a great result from Snatch grip deads.
[quote]roofus_5 wrote:
Wow, there has really been an influx of tall guys this week! Young bull, you could probably put on 10-15 lbs naturally before your vacation by upping your calories and doing a good 5X5 program that has you squatting 3 days per week. Trust me, I know. You will be well served to squat and DL a bunch, and I’m willing to bet you’d get a great result from Snatch grip deads.[/quote]
I was thinking about this. Going on a 5x5 designed by Vince Gironda. Also squatting 3 days per week? It takes me 3-4 to fully recover from 1 day a week of squatting.
A true 5x5 has recovery built into it, so to speak. I think the point 5.0 is making is that any solid program is going to yield positive results.
AAS isn’t a panacea -or magic for that matter. It only enhances training and nutrition so you get the most out of them.
I’d also caution against the thinking that you need some Big Heavy Duty program to take advantage of your enhanced abilities.
I don’t buy that.
I don’t buy that at all.
Look around on the boards -this one and others -notice how many trainees end up wrenching this or tweaking that while on a cycle. Now how much benefit are they getting from their AAS? Not much, I’d say.
Not flaming you here…just felt like being your dad for a minute.
good lifting!