Fighters Gassing

Training
41

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
ZEB wrote:

Skill, skill, keep saying that to yourself until you actually understand it. Skill is what holds back Baroni. And the previous poster is correct in what Sherk has been doing lately by trying to box everyone, it’s insane. Once again, call it poor planning or not using his best skill set. But, it has NOTHING to do with his condition or not being able to fuel his muscles lol that was funny.

Sherk is a real dumbass. Guy’s small, has short arms, and that tactics he would have to use in boxing, he can’t in MMA because the sport is different.

Why a little T-rex like him who doesn’t have power in his hands tries to box is beyond me.[/quote]

I totally agree, think maybe he’s listening to the wrong people?

42

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MattyG35 wrote:

With Baroni, or any of these others guys, if you’re carrying more muscle than you’re capable of fueling

Total nonsense! Please stop.

That means your plan is ‘Hope I knock him out in the first round or else there’s a good chance I’ll lose’ There is a balance that one must strive for.

Skill, skill, keep saying that to yourself until you actually understand it. Skill is what holds back Baroni. And the previous poster is correct in what Sherk has been doing lately by trying to box everyone, it’s insane. Once again, call it poor planning or not using his best skill set. But, it has NOTHING to do with his condition or not being able to fuel his muscles lol that was funny. No really, you’re reading bad information stop doing it.

Zeb, I get what you are saying and agree with you to an extent but think you are taking it too far to the extreme.

There is some merit in the fact that a big muscular body will take more energy to fuel it. The human body can only process so much energy therefore you get to a point of diminishing returns for increasing muscle mass.

That said, skill and style plays a huge factor. Getting punched repeatedly or taken down repeatedly or dominated on the ground saps your energy and will. Equally, coming out swinging for the fences will burn you out quicker than edging your way into a fight.

My this fence is comfy ;-)[/quote]

But, doesn’t it take a great deal of energy to fuel a fatter body? Think about it.

43

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MattyG35 wrote:

With Baroni, or any of these others guys, if you’re carrying more muscle than you’re capable of fueling

Total nonsense! Please stop.

That means your plan is ‘Hope I knock him out in the first round or else there’s a good chance I’ll lose’ There is a balance that one must strive for.

Skill, skill, keep saying that to yourself until you actually understand it. Skill is what holds back Baroni. And the previous poster is correct in what Sherk has been doing lately by trying to box everyone, it’s insane. Once again, call it poor planning or not using his best skill set. But, it has NOTHING to do with his condition or not being able to fuel his muscles lol that was funny. No really, you’re reading bad information stop doing it.

Zeb, I get what you are saying and agree with you to an extent but think you are taking it too far to the extreme.

There is some merit in the fact that a big muscular body will take more energy to fuel it. The human body can only process so much energy therefore you get to a point of diminishing returns for increasing muscle mass.

That said, skill and style plays a huge factor. Getting punched repeatedly or taken down repeatedly or dominated on the ground saps your energy and will. Equally, coming out swinging for the fences will burn you out quicker than edging your way into a fight.

My this fence is comfy :wink:

But, doesn’t it take a great deal of energy to fuel a fatter body? Think about it.
[/quote]

The Point I’m trying to make with you Zeb is that if you are too muscular it puts greater strain on your energy system, which if its NSF developed, then you’re doing yourself a disservice, like you said about it being a matter of skill that he lost, well instead of spending so much time with weights, he probably would’ve been better off working on his skills, AND conditioning.

There’s a point of diminishing returns on everything, and for MMA, being ‘ultra strong with fast-twitch bodybuilder muscle’ isn’t a requirement.

44

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MattyG35 wrote:

With Baroni, or any of these others guys, if you’re carrying more muscle than you’re capable of fueling

Total nonsense! Please stop.

That means your plan is ‘Hope I knock him out in the first round or else there’s a good chance I’ll lose’ There is a balance that one must strive for.

Skill, skill, keep saying that to yourself until you actually understand it. Skill is what holds back Baroni. And the previous poster is correct in what Sherk has been doing lately by trying to box everyone, it’s insane. Once again, call it poor planning or not using his best skill set. But, it has NOTHING to do with his condition or not being able to fuel his muscles lol that was funny. No really, you’re reading bad information stop doing it.

Zeb, I get what you are saying and agree with you to an extent but think you are taking it too far to the extreme.

There is some merit in the fact that a big muscular body will take more energy to fuel it. The human body can only process so much energy therefore you get to a point of diminishing returns for increasing muscle mass.

That said, skill and style plays a huge factor. Getting punched repeatedly or taken down repeatedly or dominated on the ground saps your energy and will. Equally, coming out swinging for the fences will burn you out quicker than edging your way into a fight.

My this fence is comfy :wink:

But, doesn’t it take a great deal of energy to fuel a fatter body? Think about it.
[/quote]

Sorry Zeb, might be because I haven’t had my coffee yet this morning but I don’t get your point.

45

MattyG35,

It’s far better to have a body fat of 8% to 12% than say over 17%. What moves bone, is it muscle or fat? Surely you are not trying to say that it is better to have more fat than muscle. And since there is no such thing as non-functional muscle then more muscle is better if you are trained on how to use it, and you have properly trained your cardiovascular system for fighting.

Or are you trying to say that fast twitch fibers actually harm the owner (of said fibers) in a fight? I think the exact opposite is true! For example, it’s fast twitch fibers that allow someone like Brock Lesnar to close the gap and take a person to the ground. “No it’s his enormous size”…wrong! Otherwise, all 265+ pound men would be mma title contenders.

One more time there is no such thing as “non-functional” muscle, that phrase is simply incorrect. It’s an over used term for coaches who promote bosu balls and balance boards. In other words it’s nonsense. However, there is a such thing as not having proper technique to apply that strength. In Baroni’s case I believe that this is true. He has fast hands but little else. Those who say he lost because he gassed fail to realize a few things. First, he didn’t gas because he is muscular. That is an improper conclusion drawn from an illogical assumption.

Another factor, when you are taking a beating that does in fact make you tired. Even one or two blows to a specific area can make a difference. For example, have you ever felt a good Muay Thai kick to the side of the leg? I have and I can assure you that 2 or 3 of these well placed kicks to the same area and you don’t even consider using that leg. The leg is beaten and thus fatigued after the kicks, regardless of how well conditioned that leg may have been, or you may have been.

Finally, I’ve stated this before, when you are losing your attitude is not the best which also adds to your fatigue (true in life as it is a well known fact that depression actually causes a loss of energy). Think of some of your own athletic accomplishments, when you are winning you are not as tired as the other guy (team), when you are losing you seem to fatigue easier.

There is definitely a psychological component to fatigue and anyone who doubts this has not yet had the depth of experience to notice, or read the research that is available. Again, that isn’t to say you cannot lose BECAUSE you are not in the proper condition, that happens all the time as well. I was not privy to how Baroni trained for the fight, but I can assure you that his muscle had NOTHING to do with him fatiguing.

Just as Tito’s muscle had nothing to do with him fatiguing in the 3rd round. He fatigued because he was taking a beating and mentally gave up, he was listless, shot, finished EMOTIONALLY. Again, he may not have had enough time to train for the fight, but either way any muscle he may have did not play into his fatigue.

Did Sherk lose to Penn because he gassed? Or did Sherk lose to Penn because he refused to use his strongest weapon, the takedown, and tried to box with Penn who is a superior striker. Hence, Sherk lost not because of immediate fatigue, but probably because of other factors which led to his fatigue. Interestingly, Sherk was always noted for his superior conditioning, that is WHEN HE WAS USING HIS SUPERIOR TECHNIQUES, and winning!

Bottom line:

Two fighters get in the octagon, one is ripped with 8% body fat and weighs 170 pounds. The second also weighs 170 pounds but has a body fat of 20%. Both trained the same way leading up to the fight and they both have similar skills and limb lengths. Tell me how the person with more muscle is at a disadvantage BECAUSE he has more muscle?

On the other hand if you’re telling me that Ronnie Coleman can’t out run another athlete for one mile who has more body fat than he, and far less muscle I would probably agree. But keep in mind the outstanding difference here is not muscle but shear body weight. How many 290 pound men can out run anyone (even in reasonable condition) in a mile run? However, when the fighters weigh virtually the same one might gas before the other but the determining factor is NOT muscle but lack of conditioning (and other sub factors).

Claiming that more muscle will harm your conditioning is simply wrong, wrong, wrong! However, poor training will ALWAYS harm your conditioning as will taking an early beating which as I’ve pointed out fatigues you physically and emotionally.

Thanks for reading this long post.

Zeb

46

Cockney Blue,

Take a look at my previous post to Matty, I tried to further explain my position a little better. Sorry for the earlier confusion.

47

On this particular subject, I’d have to say that I agree with Zeb.

I have often said that boxers don’t need to lift weights; although I think it’s a good thing for them to do, it’s not necessary for striking, especially when you consider that relatively skinny fighters like Kelly Pavlik or Thomas Hearns pack fire in both their hands. There’s a lot more that goes into striking than strength.

However, if you’re fighting MMA, stength is important. I learned this when I was taking BJJ… I was rolling with a blue belt in one of my first classes, and although he was considerably more skilled than me, he was probably 30 pounds lighter- and I blatantly overpowered him. Had it been an MMA match, kid woulda been dead because I gained the mount with minimal training.

There were also a couple guys of equal skill level to me that I literally tossed around because of my weightlifting background.

The stronger, more muscular guy is certainly at an advantage in any sport that required grappling, which is often a series of isometric contractions for your muscles. How lifting would not benefit you, as long as it’s not at the expense of skill, is beyond me.

48

you must not have rolled with good blue belts.

49

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MattyG35 wrote:

With Baroni, or any of these others guys, if you’re carrying more muscle than you’re capable of fueling

Total nonsense! Please stop.

That means your plan is ‘Hope I knock him out in the first round or else there’s a good chance I’ll lose’ There is a balance that one must strive for.

Skill, skill, keep saying that to yourself until you actually understand it. Skill is what holds back Baroni. And the previous poster is correct in what Sherk has been doing lately by trying to box everyone, it’s insane. Once again, call it poor planning or not using his best skill set. But, it has NOTHING to do with his condition or not being able to fuel his muscles lol that was funny. No really, you’re reading bad information stop doing it.

Zeb, I get what you are saying and agree with you to an extent but think you are taking it too far to the extreme.

There is some merit in the fact that a big muscular body will take more energy to fuel it. The human body can only process so much energy therefore you get to a point of diminishing returns for increasing muscle mass.

That said, skill and style plays a huge factor. Getting punched repeatedly or taken down repeatedly or dominated on the ground saps your energy and will. Equally, coming out swinging for the fences will burn you out quicker than edging your way into a fight.

My this fence is comfy :wink:

But, doesn’t it take a great deal of energy to fuel a fatter body? Think about it.
[/quote]

I’m not saying fat is better than muscle…I am saying that total body weight and lack of proper cardio is the issue.

50

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
On this particular subject, I’d have to say that I agree with Zeb.

I have often said that boxers don’t need to lift weights; although I think it’s a good thing for them to do, it’s not necessary for striking, especially when you consider that relatively skinny fighters like Kelly Pavlik or Thomas Hearns pack fire in both their hands. There’s a lot more that goes into striking than strength.

However, if you’re fighting MMA, stength is important. I learned this when I was taking BJJ… I was rolling with a blue belt in one of my first classes, and although he was considerably more skilled than me, he was probably 30 pounds lighter- and I blatantly overpowered him. Had it been an MMA match, kid woulda been dead because I gained the mount with minimal training.

There were also a couple guys of equal skill level to me that I literally tossed around because of my weightlifting background.

The stronger, more muscular guy is certainly at an advantage in any sport that required grappling, which is often a series of isometric contractions for your muscles. How lifting would not benefit you, as long as it’s not at the expense of skill, is beyond me.[/quote]

To be clear: I am all for a fighter lifting to get stronger. But there IS a differance between lifting for mass and lifting for strength.

51

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
On this particular subject, I’d have to say that I agree with Zeb.

I have often said that boxers don’t need to lift weights; although I think it’s a good thing for them to do, it’s not necessary for striking, especially when you consider that relatively skinny fighters like Kelly Pavlik or Thomas Hearns pack fire in both their hands. There’s a lot more that goes into striking than strength.

However, if you’re fighting MMA, stength is important. I learned this when I was taking BJJ… I was rolling with a blue belt in one of my first classes, and although he was considerably more skilled than me, he was probably 30 pounds lighter- and I blatantly overpowered him. Had it been an MMA match, kid woulda been dead because I gained the mount with minimal training.

There were also a couple guys of equal skill level to me that I literally tossed around because of my weightlifting background.

The stronger, more muscular guy is certainly at an advantage in any sport that required grappling, which is often a series of isometric contractions for your muscles. How lifting would not benefit you, as long as it’s not at the expense of skill, is beyond me.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s something even Royler Gracie said in a Black Belt Magazine interview. You’re the bigger, stronger, better conditioned guy, you have an advantage, period. Technique does a lot, but then it’s not everything. Also, I believe that every athlete should be lifting weights, if for totally other reasons than getting stronger (well, that’s nice but sometimes not your main concern, as Irish said) or bigger (this one can even be a disadvantage in some cases).

52

[quote]ZEB wrote:
MattyG35,

It’s far better to have a body fat of 8% to 12% than say over 17%. What moves bone, is it muscle or fat? Surely you are not trying to say that it is better to have more fat than muscle. And since there is no such thing as non-functional muscle then more muscle is better if you are trained on how to use it, and you have properly trained your cardiovascular system for fighting.

Or are you trying to say that fast twitch fibers actually harm the owner (of said fibers) in a fight? I think the exact opposite is true! For example, it’s fast twitch fibers that allow someone like Brock Lesnar to close the gap and take a person to the ground. “No it’s his enormous size”…wrong! Otherwise, all 265+ pound men would be mma title contenders.

One more time there is no such thing as “non-functional” muscle, that phrase is simply incorrect. It’s an over used term for coaches who promote bosu balls and balance boards. In other words it’s nonsense. However, there is a such thing as not having proper technique to apply that strength. In Baroni’s case I believe that this is true. He has fast hands but little else. Those who say he lost because he gassed fail to realize a few things. First, he didn’t gas because he is muscular. That is an improper conclusion drawn from an illogical assumption.

Another factor, when you are taking a beating that does in fact make you tired. Even one or two blows to a specific area can make a difference. For example, have you ever felt a good Muay Thai kick to the side of the leg? I have and I can assure you that 2 or 3 of these well placed kicks to the same area and you don’t even consider using that leg. The leg is beaten and thus fatigued after the kicks, regardless of how well conditioned that leg may have been, or you may have been.

Finally, I’ve stated this before, when you are losing your attitude is not the best which also adds to your fatigue (true in life as it is a well known fact that depression actually causes a loss of energy). Think of some of your own athletic accomplishments, when you are winning you are not as tired as the other guy (team), when you are losing you seem to fatigue easier.

There is definitely a psychological component to fatigue and anyone who doubts this has not yet had the depth of experience to notice, or read the research that is available. Again, that isn’t to say you cannot lose BECAUSE you are not in the proper condition, that happens all the time as well. I was not privy to how Baroni trained for the fight, but I can assure you that his muscle had NOTHING to do with him fatiguing.

Just as Tito’s muscle had nothing to do with him fatiguing in the 3rd round. He fatigued because he was taking a beating and mentally gave up, he was listless, shot, finished EMOTIONALLY. Again, he may not have had enough time to train for the fight, but either way any muscle he may have did not play into his fatigue.

Did Sherk lose to Penn because he gassed? Or did Sherk lose to Penn because he refused to use his strongest weapon, the takedown, and tried to box with Penn who is a superior striker. Hence, Sherk lost not because of immediate fatigue, but probably because of other factors which led to his fatigue. Interestingly, Sherk was always noted for his superior conditioning, that is WHEN HE WAS USING HIS SUPERIOR TECHNIQUES, and winning!

Bottom line:

Two fighters get in the octagon, one is ripped with 8% body fat and weighs 170 pounds. The second also weighs 170 pounds but has a body fat of 20%. Both trained the same way leading up to the fight and they both have similar skills and limb lengths. Tell me how the person with more muscle is at a disadvantage BECAUSE he has more muscle?

On the other hand if you’re telling me that Ronnie Coleman can’t out run another athlete for one mile who has more body fat than he, and far less muscle I would probably agree. But keep in mind the outstanding difference here is not muscle but shear body weight. How many 290 pound men can out run anyone (even in reasonable condition) in a mile run? However, when the fighters weigh virtually the same one might gas before the other but the determining factor is NOT muscle but lack of conditioning (and other sub factors).

Claiming that more muscle will harm your conditioning is simply wrong, wrong, wrong! However, poor training will ALWAYS harm your conditioning as will taking an early beating which as I’ve pointed out fatigues you physically and emotionally.

Thanks for reading this long post.

Zeb
[/quote]

I pretty much agree with you. MMA is an unusual sport in the range of energy systems it uses and how different that can be depending on the style or even how the round is going.

53

[quote]drewh wrote:
you must not have rolled with good blue belts.[/quote]

The kid wasn’t the best, I’ve definitely rolled with better people. But even he made a remark about how I was exerting a lot of force… and I was. I know that’s not what you’re supposed to do in BJJ, but being as I’m not overly skilled in it, I knew that i had to outmuscle him or I was fucked.

And of course, it was during a drill and I gassed pretty badly. But I still beat that kid because of strength.

54

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
you must not have rolled with good blue belts.

The kid wasn’t the best, I’ve definitely rolled with better people. But even he made a remark about how I was exerting a lot of force… and I was. I know that’s not what you’re supposed to do in BJJ, but being as I’m not overly skilled in it, I knew that i had to outmuscle him or I was fucked.

And of course, it was during a drill and I gassed pretty badly. But I still beat that kid because of strength.[/quote]

Spot the boxing attitude in a BJJ class. Mucling through a sparring session to ‘win’ actually causes you and your training partner to both lose. You lose because you are not learning proper technique, your training partner loses because he is risking injury and not able to train effectively.

You are a white belt, he is a blue belt, ergo you are both beginners, the idea is to practice the moves with good technique, not to see who can get the other person in the tightest non choking headlock.

gets off soap box

55

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
you must not have rolled with good blue belts.

The kid wasn’t the best, I’ve definitely rolled with better people. But even he made a remark about how I was exerting a lot of force… and I was. I know that’s not what you’re supposed to do in BJJ, but being as I’m not overly skilled in it, I knew that i had to outmuscle him or I was fucked.

And of course, it was during a drill and I gassed pretty badly. But I still beat that kid because of strength.

Spot the boxing attitude in a BJJ class. Mucling through a sparring session to ‘win’ actually causes you and your training partner to both lose. You lose because you are not learning proper technique, your training partner loses because he is risking injury and not able to train effectively.

You are a white belt, he is a blue belt, ergo you are both beginners, the idea is to practice the moves with good technique, not to see who can get the other person in the tightest non choking headlock.

gets off soap box[/quote]

Whatever man. I dislocated my shoulder shortly afterwards so it didn’t much matter.

56

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
you must not have rolled with good blue belts.

The kid wasn’t the best, I’ve definitely rolled with better people. But even he made a remark about how I was exerting a lot of force… and I was. I know that’s not what you’re supposed to do in BJJ, but being as I’m not overly skilled in it, I knew that i had to outmuscle him or I was fucked.

And of course, it was during a drill and I gassed pretty badly. But I still beat that kid because of strength.

Spot the boxing attitude in a BJJ class. Mucling through a sparring session to ‘win’ actually causes you and your training partner to both lose. You lose because you are not learning proper technique, your training partner loses because he is risking injury and not able to train effectively.

You are a white belt, he is a blue belt, ergo you are both beginners, the idea is to practice the moves with good technique, not to see who can get the other person in the tightest non choking headlock.

gets off soap box[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying, but…

At the same time they may have both learned an important lesson (depending on why they were doing BJJ).

Irish probably learned how to apply the techniques that he had learned up to that point in a live context.

The blue belt may have learned the importance/significance of strength training and may have realized that he needed to pay a little more attention to that aspect of his training. He also, if he trains against such people on a consistent basis, learns how to deal with superior strength and an aggressive, bigger, more physical opponent (something that he might very well have to deal with if he ever finds himself in a real fight). Thus potentially improving his knowledge of strategy and physicality.

There really aren’t any “losing” training experiences. :wink:

57

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
you must not have rolled with good blue belts.

The kid wasn’t the best, I’ve definitely rolled with better people. But even he made a remark about how I was exerting a lot of force… and I was. I know that’s not what you’re supposed to do in BJJ, but being as I’m not overly skilled in it, I knew that i had to outmuscle him or I was fucked.

And of course, it was during a drill and I gassed pretty badly. But I still beat that kid because of strength.

Spot the boxing attitude in a BJJ class. Mucling through a sparring session to ‘win’ actually causes you and your training partner to both lose. You lose because you are not learning proper technique, your training partner loses because he is risking injury and not able to train effectively.

You are a white belt, he is a blue belt, ergo you are both beginners, the idea is to practice the moves with good technique, not to see who can get the other person in the tightest non choking headlock.

gets off soap box

I understand what you’re saying, but…

At the same time they may have both learned an important lesson (depending on why they were doing BJJ).

Irish probably learned how to apply the techniques that he had learned up to that point in a live context.

The blue belt may have learned the importance/significance of strength training and may have realized that he needed to pay a little more attention to that aspect of his training. He also, if he trains against such people on a consistent basis, learns how to deal with superior strength and an aggressive, bigger, more physical opponent (something that he might very well have to deal with if he ever finds himself in a real fight). Thus potentially improving his knowledge of strategy and physicality.

There really aren’t any “losing” training experiences. ;)[/quote]

That is true too.

When a bunch of guys concentrate on grappling technique all the time, and they’re all relatively skinny guys, they’re not going to know what it feels like to go at someone who has crappy technique but just plans on outmuscling you.

That can be as much of a shock as when you’re grappling with a guy the same size and strength as you, but he actually knows what he’s doing and you end up unconcious in under 30 seconds.

58

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
you must not have rolled with good blue belts.

The kid wasn’t the best, I’ve definitely rolled with better people. But even he made a remark about how I was exerting a lot of force… and I was. I know that’s not what you’re supposed to do in BJJ, but being as I’m not overly skilled in it, I knew that i had to outmuscle him or I was fucked.

And of course, it was during a drill and I gassed pretty badly. But I still beat that kid because of strength.

Spot the boxing attitude in a BJJ class. Mucling through a sparring session to ‘win’ actually causes you and your training partner to both lose. You lose because you are not learning proper technique, your training partner loses because he is risking injury and not able to train effectively.

You are a white belt, he is a blue belt, ergo you are both beginners, the idea is to practice the moves with good technique, not to see who can get the other person in the tightest non choking headlock.

gets off soap box

Whatever man. I dislocated my shoulder shortly afterwards so it didn’t much matter.[/quote]

Did you dislocate the shoulder doing BJJ?

Btw, I hope you realise I was only yanking your chain.

59

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
you must not have rolled with good blue belts.

The kid wasn’t the best, I’ve definitely rolled with better people. But even he made a remark about how I was exerting a lot of force… and I was. I know that’s not what you’re supposed to do in BJJ, but being as I’m not overly skilled in it, I knew that i had to outmuscle him or I was fucked.

And of course, it was during a drill and I gassed pretty badly. But I still beat that kid because of strength.

Spot the boxing attitude in a BJJ class. Mucling through a sparring session to ‘win’ actually causes you and your training partner to both lose. You lose because you are not learning proper technique, your training partner loses because he is risking injury and not able to train effectively.

You are a white belt, he is a blue belt, ergo you are both beginners, the idea is to practice the moves with good technique, not to see who can get the other person in the tightest non choking headlock.

gets off soap box

I understand what you’re saying, but…

At the same time they may have both learned an important lesson (depending on why they were doing BJJ).

Irish probably learned how to apply the techniques that he had learned up to that point in a live context.

The blue belt may have learned the importance/significance of strength training and may have realized that he needed to pay a little more attention to that aspect of his training. He also, if he trains against such people on a consistent basis, learns how to deal with superior strength and an aggressive, bigger, more physical opponent (something that he might very well have to deal with if he ever finds himself in a real fight). Thus potentially improving his knowledge of strategy and physicality.

There really aren’t any “losing” training experiences. ;)[/quote]

I get what you are saying, and agree with you to an extent. I love to roll with strong total newbies from time to time as a reality check.

When guys at my gym ask who ‘won’ a sparring session I always tell them whoever learned more.

It is just that I spend a lot of time teaching pretty new people and one of the biggest hurdles I find is to get them to calm down and realise they are training with someone not against them.

60

[quote]Valor wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MattyG35 wrote:

With Baroni, or any of these others guys, if you’re carrying more muscle than you’re capable of fueling

Total nonsense! Please stop.

That means your plan is ‘Hope I knock him out in the first round or else there’s a good chance I’ll lose’ There is a balance that one must strive for.

Skill, skill, keep saying that to yourself until you actually understand it. Skill is what holds back Baroni. And the previous poster is correct in what Sherk has been doing lately by trying to box everyone, it’s insane. Once again, call it poor planning or not using his best skill set. But, it has NOTHING to do with his condition or not being able to fuel his muscles lol that was funny. No really, you’re reading bad information stop doing it.

You’re just wrong. If Shamrock had swallowed his ego and added some cardio and dropped somw weight, he’d have been a much more effective fighter in his last few fights.[/quote]

How about this: if Shamrock had just added more cardio, or this; if Shamrock had just been younger, or if Shamrock had just been more highly skilled.

You know what I mean? I wouldn’t go picking on Shamrocks muscle as the cause for his humiliating defeats vs Tito Ortiz, there are so many other reasons that he lost, being strong was certainly NOT one of them. That muscle you see actually helped him when he was younger and was actually competitive.