No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.
[quote]Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.[/quote]
In my opinion, it’s not good to talk about competitive fighters that way. You know, there’s always factors involoved you and I can’t see, can’t know, can’t even begin to guess. My admiration goes to those that reach a level comparable to that of Tito Ortiz - losing a single fight or two or even a whole lot of fights is part of the game.
Judging from personal experience, I dare say there’s rarely a single factor that determines the outcome of a fight. Although I don’t believe in luck, whichever way you might put it, there’s just factors beyond reach, things you can’t change.
Pro fighters a human being and as such imperfect. Let’s grant them the right to be human, that doesn’t lessen them. There’s a quote from Roosevelt that I love and it starts out with the words:
“The critics dont count.”
Google it up, it kind of perfectly describes what I’m trying to say here but can’t.
[quote]Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.[/quote]
Ortiz gets the benefit of the doubt, he would have been as prepared as his body allows. Baroni is never likely to win a fight in the third round, we know that and expect it. If he had the muscle type to go three rounds at the same pace he would not have the power in the early rounds.
Also, you have no idea what factors played into it. Comming in out of shape is bad but you let no-one down but yourself. You can be in the best shape of your life and have a strike or an injury take the wind out of your sails.
With Ortiz its due to inactivity- it takes more then one fight camp to get the work capacity/power endurance where it needs to be.
Baroni- and lots of others- maybe just don’t do the right things in the gym and or get emotional.
Fighting emotionally- not to mention getting punched in the face do really bad things to your cardio or gas tank.
Staying cool, not getting too hot- vs getting very emotinal or fighting angry, the latter will wear you out quickly.
When Baroni was at 185- obviously he spent allot of time in the weight room, and less time on conditioning,
being lean or vascular does not always lead to great power endurance or energy systems or what ever.
I also know he cuts allot of weight and gets big between fights, and not for nothing
both these guys well, have been around for a long time and are pushing mid thirties
Its hard to stay on top after 10+ years.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Also, you have no idea what factors played into it. Comming in out of shape is bad but you let no-one down but yourself. You can be in the best shape of your life and have a strike or an injury take the wind out of your sails.[/quote]
Right.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
I also know he cuts allot of weight and gets big between fights, and not for nothing
both these guys well, have been around for a long time and are pushing mid thirties
Its hard to stay on top after 10+ years.
[/quote]
What I said: Respect those who deserve it.
(Which is about anyone stepping on the mat or in the ring or octagon… that takes courage, regardless of the outcome.)
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
With Ortiz its due to inactivity- it takes more then one fight camp to get the work capacity/power endurance where it needs to be.
Baroni- and lots of others- maybe just don’t do the right things in the gym and or get emotional.
Fighting emotionally- not to mention getting punched in the face do really bad things to your cardio or gas tank.
Staying cool, not getting too hot- vs getting very emotinal or fighting angry, the latter will wear you out quickly.
When Baroni was at 185- obviously he spent allot of time in the weight room, and less time on conditioning,
being lean or vascular does not always lead to great power endurance or energy systems or what ever.
I also know he cuts allot of weight and gets big between fights, and not for nothing
both these guys well, have been around for a long time and are pushing mid thirties
Its hard to stay on top after 10+ years.
[/quote]
I’d agree about Ortiz. The guy had major surgery on his back not too long ago. It takes a while to build yourself back up after that, especially since he isn’t getting any younger.
Baroni took numerous hard shots to the head, liver (Sodollah was relentless with that left knee to the liver in the clinch), and legs. That’s going to slow even the best conditioned fighter down. The fact that he continued fighting and stayed on his feet actually suggests that he was in pretty good shape IMO. He just got beat by a better fighter, plain and simple.
[quote]Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.[/quote]
Actually I think the saddest most pathetic way to lose is to literally run from your opponent and refuse to engage (see Calib Starnes vs Nate Quarry). 
Baroni trains like a bodybuilder, doesn’t he? I remember hearing him talk on musclerx radio about it. He has never had a deep gas tank tho. Gassed in his last fight with elitexc, didn’t he?
[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:
Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.
In my opinion, it’s not good to talk about competitive fighters that way. You know, there’s always factors involoved you and I can’t see, can’t know, can’t even begin to guess. My admiration goes to those that reach a level comparable to that of Tito Ortiz - losing a single fight or two or even a whole lot of fights is part of the game.
Judging from personal experience, I dare say there’s rarely a single factor that determines the outcome of a fight. Although I don’t believe in luck, whichever way you might put it, there’s just factors beyond reach, things you can’t change.
Pro fighters a human being and as such imperfect. Let’s grant them the right to be human, that doesn’t lessen them. There’s a quote from Roosevelt that I love and it starts out with the words:
“The critics dont count.”
Google it up, it kind of perfectly describes what I’m trying to say here but can’t.[/quote]
Once maybe… bot those two have made career out of it. Besides as a fan…I think its my right.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.
Actually I think the saddest most pathetic way to lose is to literally run from your opponent and refuse to engage (see Calib Starnes vs Nate Quarry). ;)[/quote]
One for you.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
Baroni trains like a bodybuilder, doesn’t he? I remember hearing him talk on musclerx radio about it. He has never had a deep gas tank tho. Gassed in his last fight with elitexc, didn’t he?[/quote]
He used to be a bodybuilder, found an old M&F magazine quoting him on that. Not sure about his training routines currently.
[quote]Valor wrote:
FirestormWarrior wrote:
Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.
In my opinion, it’s not good to talk about competitive fighters that way. You know, there’s always factors involoved you and I can’t see, can’t know, can’t even begin to guess. My admiration goes to those that reach a level comparable to that of Tito Ortiz - losing a single fight or two or even a whole lot of fights is part of the game.
Judging from personal experience, I dare say there’s rarely a single factor that determines the outcome of a fight. Although I don’t believe in luck, whichever way you might put it, there’s just factors beyond reach, things you can’t change.
Pro fighters a human being and as such imperfect. Let’s grant them the right to be human, that doesn’t lessen them. There’s a quote from Roosevelt that I love and it starts out with the words:
“The critics dont count.”
Google it up, it kind of perfectly describes what I’m trying to say here but can’t.
Once maybe… bot those two have made career out of it. Besides as a fan…I think its my right.[/quote]
Actually since his Frank Shamrock fight Tito has been one of the best conditioned fighters in the game for over 10 years. I think you should at least know what you are talking about before you make a stupid remark.
[quote]Valor wrote:
FirestormWarrior wrote:
Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.
In my opinion, it’s not good to talk about competitive fighters that way. You know, there’s always factors involoved you and I can’t see, can’t know, can’t even begin to guess. My admiration goes to those that reach a level comparable to that of Tito Ortiz - losing a single fight or two or even a whole lot of fights is part of the game.
Judging from personal experience, I dare say there’s rarely a single factor that determines the outcome of a fight. Although I don’t believe in luck, whichever way you might put it, there’s just factors beyond reach, things you can’t change.
Pro fighters a human being and as such imperfect. Let’s grant them the right to be human, that doesn’t lessen them. There’s a quote from Roosevelt that I love and it starts out with the words:
“The critics dont count.”
Google it up, it kind of perfectly describes what I’m trying to say here but can’t.
Once maybe… bot those two have made career out of it. Besides as a fan…I think its my right.[/quote]
Uhm, no. On both arguments.
[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:
Valor wrote:
FirestormWarrior wrote:
Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.
In my opinion, it’s not good to talk about competitive fighters that way. You know, there’s always factors involoved you and I can’t see, can’t know, can’t even begin to guess. My admiration goes to those that reach a level comparable to that of Tito Ortiz - losing a single fight or two or even a whole lot of fights is part of the game.
Judging from personal experience, I dare say there’s rarely a single factor that determines the outcome of a fight. Although I don’t believe in luck, whichever way you might put it, there’s just factors beyond reach, things you can’t change.
Pro fighters a human being and as such imperfect. Let’s grant them the right to be human, that doesn’t lessen them. There’s a quote from Roosevelt that I love and it starts out with the words:
“The critics dont count.”
Google it up, it kind of perfectly describes what I’m trying to say here but can’t.
Once maybe… bot those two have made career out of it. Besides as a fan…I think its my right.
Uhm, no. On both arguments.[/quote]
Well if you cant come down on a fighter for running out of gas…can you hammer them for being weak on the ground? Or not being able to stop a take down? I mean, you let me know…what can we anc can we not call a fighter on, as fans?
[quote]Valor wrote:
FirestormWarrior wrote:
Valor wrote:
FirestormWarrior wrote:
Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.
In my opinion, it’s not good to talk about competitive fighters that way. You know, there’s always factors involoved you and I can’t see, can’t know, can’t even begin to guess. My admiration goes to those that reach a level comparable to that of Tito Ortiz - losing a single fight or two or even a whole lot of fights is part of the game.
Judging from personal experience, I dare say there’s rarely a single factor that determines the outcome of a fight. Although I don’t believe in luck, whichever way you might put it, there’s just factors beyond reach, things you can’t change.
Pro fighters a human being and as such imperfect. Let’s grant them the right to be human, that doesn’t lessen them. There’s a quote from Roosevelt that I love and it starts out with the words:
“The critics dont count.”
Google it up, it kind of perfectly describes what I’m trying to say here but can’t.
Once maybe… bot those two have made career out of it. Besides as a fan…I think its my right.
Uhm, no. On both arguments.
Well if you cant come down on a fighter for running out of gas…can you hammer them for being weak on the ground? Or not being able to stop a take down? I mean, you let me know…what can we anc can we not call a fighter on, as fans?[/quote]
i agree…as a spectator, and both a fan and pseudo-competitor, i think i can voice my frustration. for instance, seeing Kimbo fight and his terrible ground game, i think i can be critical of that. i mean, he SHOULD be better than me-it’s his job.
i expect professional athletes to compete as such-as professionals.
EDIT: now as a flip side, i don’t ever boo, nor do i like to hear people do that. that’s usually an uneducated fight fan doing that. even at the amateur level, it takes a lot of guts and preperation to get in the cage, so i don’ think that’s appropriate, unless someone is acting unsportsmanlike.
[quote]Valor wrote:
No this is not a GI post :).
When will fighters learn that the saddest most fucking pathetic way to lose a fight…is to gas?
Baroni and Ortiz lost fights at UFC 106…because they gassed. Thats inexcusable at their levels.[/quote]
Another take on that is they gassed BECAUSE they were getting beat-up. Did you ever notice that when a fighter is losing he seems more tired than the guy who is winning. Now some might say that he is losing because he’s gassing, but in reality most were losing BEFORE they were gassed. This is only my observation but I think that gassing has as much to do with your mental state as it does your physical.
With that said, obviously fighters can gas because there was a lack of cardio training such as BJ Penn has displayed in past performances.
Its pretty obvious that Baroni is carrying too much ‘bodybuilder’ muscle and not enough ‘functional’ muscle.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Its pretty obvious that Baroni is carrying too much ‘bodybuilder’ muscle and not enough ‘functional’ muscle. [/quote]
What’s obvious is that you’re reading too much pop training information. Would you like to tell me what exactly “non-functional” muscle is?
you know given the fact ortiz did gas, he came along way from major surgery. consider that he recovered
from major surgery quicker and faster than ‘normal people’ who have had the same surgery. he’ll most likely
will win his next fight and be up to where his conditioning should be before the surgery. me i had shoulder
surgery 1 1/2 years ago and feel completely recovered since july and that says alot cuz i never had major
surgery before and it does alot physically and mentally to your body and the fact i recovered is amazing
cuz when i went back to work last yr august, i was in a very bad place mentally as well as physical, that
was a long road…