Thank you, because the entire first post was speaking specifically against the use of sugar, to include candy.
Wait, we’ve been agreeing this whole time? I think a sugar diet is stupid as hell. I also think the carnivore diet is stupid though. Pre plant addition anyways. Now it’s just a well balanced diet again.
Specifically relating to this piece
“Take with this information what you will. It’s pretty wild how FGF21 maximization is effectively the polar opposite of the Velocity Diet, and makes me wonder how a cyclical approach of both extremes would work. One could attempt such an approach by doing opposite ends of a Metabolic Drive based diet followed by a Surge based diet.”
All I’m reading is balance. It’s just being done cyclically.
I’m going to guess the carnivore diet, now modified, will be the winner long term. I’d probably loosen restrictions further though and re-intro paleo with a bend for high protein. Maybe call it the cliff dweller or something next time and add a super rare strain of Hopi Indian corn, in supplement form, for marketability.
Again: I feel you haven’t been in good faith with me. I feel you just read the word “sugar diet” skipped over the rest of what I wrote, watched none of the videos and discussed with me as though I were arguing in favor of the sugar diet.
I was genuinely interested in your thoughts on what I have written and shared. When you have time to focus on it, I feel we could have a great discussion
I did dive in to the sugar diet itself.
Regarding cycling extreme diets, I would not. My sincere response is that it’s just finding balance, albeit cyclically.
I would offer all my thoughts above for reasons why I would not do a sugar diet “cycle” and similar if not the same arguments for carnivore or whatever else.
I would end on balance, with a bend for high protein (despite short term restriction showing FGF21 manipulation giving a net positive benefit. Too much is still left on the table.
Our bodies like equilibrium. I’m aware manipulating that equilibrium is what gives us gym results, however yo-yoing doesn’t seem like the most effective path forward to me. This has also been tried, and even mainstream, in various iterations.
It works, but so does balance and moderate alterations, usually with greater long term effect.
If the sugar diet does what Bell says, fine. Maybe use it for a show prep. Could be cool for weight class sports, and give lots of glycogen to draw from to boot. Maybe worth looking at in very niche cases. Maybe.
As it’s presented by bell and others however, it’s a well rounded diet with bullshit candy recommendations being sold sort of dangerously imo.
This is why I am curious to hear your thoughts on Robert Sikes’ and Nick. You are very focused on the sugar aspect.
From what I’ve seen, Mark and Cole keep changing their approach and it’s nearly impossible to keep up. Early on it was go nuts on pure sugar, eat candy, etc. Low to no protein. Drink pop, eat candy all day and “get shredded” per Cole.
Then it was sugar until dinner, protein afterwards. Mark kept bumping his protein intake up during while trying this.
In the latest videos, it’s unlimited protein until dinner, backfill with starch, no fat. Cole now says “there are no shortcuts.”
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I initially wondered who would be the guinea pig and run this for a couple months. Now I’m just confused.
Same thoughts on second review.
Their videos are basically advertisements for high fat diets.
We’ve also seen this as the “testosterone diet”.
It’s not sustainable and both of your n=1 samples said so. Doubling testosterone for 3 weeks is interesting but would have minimal impact on anything in the big picture, assuming values revert when coming off the diet.
The sugar diet can’t define itself, and the fat heavy “carnivore” diets are either now pitched as temporary or they’re not actually carnivore diets at all, but well rounded, whole food diets.
I guess it could make sense to “cycle” diets. Seems more like novelty and catching the next big wave in pursuit of ideal but both are extreme fads that are already constantly reinventing themselves to stay relevant and effective. And safe.
What I see are pitched extremes coming back to balance in each. Bell walking back protein restriction with ever increasing intake, and the fat guys prescribing limited timeframes or adding fruits and veggies anyways.
Interesting rabbit hole though.
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts and giving the video more time
I’m trying to catch up so I can have a somewhat informed opinion, but one concern jumps out at me: have any of them talked potentially exacerbating cancer/ metastasis risks?
That’s an excellent question. I haven’t seen that addressed, but certainly a concern.
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Is this along the lines of what is being discussed? Looks intriguing (copied from someone called anabology). It seems like a more longterm approach rather than a “sugar cleanse” or whatever the more restricted diet is labeled.
Protocol:
Waking - 3pm:
- As much of simple, non-starchy sugars as you want. No fat, no protein.
- Honey
- Orange juice
- Maple syrup
- Dates
- Grapes
- Cherries
- Oranges
- Watermelon
- Black coffee with sugar
(If you absolutely want protein, do gelatin only in this phase)
3pm - 7pm:
Fast. Go to the gym. Burn off that last blood sugar.
7pm - Sleep:
- Eat dinner. I prefer to do something big like:
- 1 lb lean beef
- 1 lb green vegetables (well cooked - broccoli, asparagus, etc.)
- 1 lb boiled mushrooms
- A glass or two of chocolate skim/low fat milk
The rationale:
This came from a few key observations:
- Blood glucose goes back to baseline within a few hours of eating pure sugar, even if you have a lot of it.
- Blood glucose stays slightly elevated for a long time after eating a meal with protein and fat.
- Protein and fat make diabetics require more insulin to process the same amount of sugar.
- Both protein and fat appear to be elevated for ~12 hours after eating a meal with them.
- When animals overeat sugar with no protein, ‘FGF21’ is strongly induced, which speeds up the metabolic rate.
- Fat, without protein, induces FGF21 less strongly.
- Protein inhibits FGF21 (most likely isoleucine/BCAAs, so gelatin may be okay during the sugar phase).
- The primary way in which humans store fat is by reesterifying dietary fat, not by converting sugar to fat.
- The Randle cycle + Fructose can cause a fatty liver, but added Fructose in isolation does not appear to cause a fatty liver.
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Appreciate you sharing that! Reminds me of something Jesse Itzler wrote about in “Living with a SEAL”, where he picked up a dietary approach of “Only fruit before noon” from someone else. Apparently some manner of fruit fast has been popular for a while in certain circles. I also find his dinner fascinating, as it eats from all 3 kingdoms: animal, vegetable and fungi. AND it’s 3lbs of food in one sitting. A very low fat diet as well.
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I think care should be taken to not erroneously assign group ownership to trending diets.
SEALs have public enough visibility for attention while still maintaining special operations mystique, and are movie popular. Easy group to casually tag in an influencer world.
A good friend of mine is a SEAL, and did some interesting contracting for a few years too.
He loves omelettes and toast for breakfast.
If there are “circles” where extreme diets live (or modified extreme diets that creatively arrange macro intake through a day), they are online monetized influencer circles. And maybe supplement company advertising channels that have figured out how to market something in a way that seems exclusive. In this case, probably sugar water if anyone does it, but with an unnecessarily scientific sounding name.
Literally nothing I wrote was about how SEALs eat…
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This sounds like the second or third iteration of what Mark and Cole were doing.
Dinner would include chicken breast or very lean beef.
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This stuck out to me as well. Actually inspired me to hit up the Farmer’s Market and grab some local mushrooms, honey, and fruit. My wife is obsessed with dates, so we had plenty of those around already.
Yeah, I think an objective is to stay relatively low in fat, moderate in protein, and relatively high in carbs. From my readings and watching the videos on this thread - though admittedly not all the way through - it seems like there are a few different variations on similar approaches. It’s also clear the term “sugar diet” makes some readers assume things about the diet and draw conclusions without looking more closely.
The last two days, I’ve roughly tried to follow this outline. It kind of aligns with my style of eating and approach anyway:
During the day: Honey, dates, fruit. (I’ve opted for berries, plums, and watermelons).
During the evening: Mushrooms, beef, veggies.
Dessert: Sorbet with only real fruit and real sugar.
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It’s also clear the term “sugar diet” makes some readers assume things about the diet and draw conclusions without looking more closely.
Seeing a lot of that.
Cool to hear of your own experimenting. I’m seeing some parallels with Ori Hofmelker’s “Warrior Diet” as well, with the 20 hour fast that permitted small amounts of raw fruits, and veggies before culminating in a 4 hour feeding window. Ori wanted the food consumed in a certain order, starting with raw veggies, then protein and cooked veggies, then finishing with whole-grain carb sources.
That said, if the discussion has moved onto mushrooms, I feel like we gotta tag in @SkyzykS
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Didn’t know @SkyzykS was a big mushroom guy! I’ve always liked the idea of mushrooms more than actually eating them, but I’ve found air frying some chopped up Lion’s Mane with Maitake is pretty tasty.
Honey and fruit are two of favorite foods, so I was naturally drawn to this once I saw some of the approaches to implementing it.
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Paul Saladino discusses implementation of honey and fruit into a diet as well. I’m reading through his “Carnivore Code Cookbook”, which has some fascinating recipes and perspectives.
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