Few Bench Press Questions

Bigger Stronger Leaner Beginners
1

Hello,

I did some searching first before posting this topic, but honestly I think I became even more confused as there didn’t seem to be a consensus.

First, my sticking point on my bench seems to be right above my chest, say the 1st 4-5". If I can get the bar past that point, I’m gonna lock it out – even if it takes me 5+ seconds. Some sites say that means my chest is weak, others say it’s my shoulders. Which is it?

Second, I normally grip the bar w/ my pinkies touching the narrow smooth ring. I’ve recently started doing some “close grip” benches where my hands are about shoulder-width apart. Should I be doing more close-grip?

Third, do you have someone lift off for you? And how do you lift off? I read that you should lock out the bar over the rack before bringing it out over your chest. When I’m warming up with 135, no problem. But starting at around 185, I start expending some effort getting the bar off my rack and over my chest. I lie down w/ the bar directly over my eyes, so when I first lift off my arms are about 10 degrees from vertical. I watched one guy bench and he started bringing the bar out way before locking his elbows. It seems more efficient yet more dangerous.

And what about spotting? After pinning myself a few times on near-max lifts, I’ve finally wised up and recruited a spotter for those attempts. However, I’m not sure I’m actually doing the weight.

For example, mid-June I maxed 215 w/ no spotter. The next week I failed at 220. For the next 1.5 months I just did reps. On 7/23 I tried 220 again and failed again. (That’s when I finally decided I didn’t like having heavy weights laying on my chest.) On 7/27 I asked for a spot. The guy lifted off for me and I got 225 3 times! He swears he didn’t help me at all even though his hands were under the bar the entire time.

Can I legitimately say I benched 225? For comparison’s sake, I can bench 195x8. If those %repmax charts are anywhere near accurate, then that suggests my max is closer to 250.

Thanks for any help.

2

I don’t know much about your first question, but I think the chest gets most involved at the lowest ROM.

Grip width depends on your goals. If you want to stimulate your pecs more, wide is the way to go. If you want more triceps, go close. If you wanna lift as heavy as possible, find your strongest grip.

I normally lockout after lifting just to set things up. As for your problem getting the bar off rack to over your chest, I think your pectoralis minor and back muscles are a bit weak. You can try lying BB pullovers, as the movement is similar within a certain ROM.

A spotter can help you lift weights through psychology. Your CNS shuts down due to safety reasons (it wants to keep your maximum weight lower to prevent injuries), which is why you can’t lift as much. Having a spotter around gives you confidence that nothing can go wrong, and this somehow allows your CNS to neglect that safety barrier and go all out.

Another explanation is that your spotter is so strong that he doesn’t realize that he’s removing 10 pounds off the bar while holding it from the bottom. Yet another explanation is that you got stronger since your last workout.

I suggest that next time you get a spotter, tell him not to hold the bar until you say so.

Those RM charts are accurate only to a certain extent. For example, if you’re slow twitch dominant, your 1RM would be lower than what the chart prescribes.

3

I’ve read on here that if you go lower it’ll work the pecs more which is why some people prefer db bench press as they can bring the bars lower.

Can someone explain to me what CNS stands for and what it is?

4

Widen your grip a bit and lower the load and do paused work on the bottom to bring up the lagging area

Phill

5

cns - central nervous system

6

CNS just stands for Central Nervous System, which is composed of your nerves, spinal chord and brain, all of which are used to control your muscles.

7

[quote]Phill wrote:
Widen your grip a bit and lower the load and do paused work on the bottom to bring up the lagging area

Phill[/quote]

So instead of putting my pinkies on the smooth rings I should put my ring or middle fingers on the rings? I’m not sure my arms will stretch that far, but I’ll give it a shot. (I’m 5’7".)

8

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
I don’t know much about your first question, but I think the chest gets most involved at the lowest ROM.

Grip width depends on your goals. If you want to stimulate your pecs more, wide is the way to go. If you want more triceps, go close. If you wanna lift as heavy as possible, find your strongest grip.

I normally lockout after lifting just to set things up. As for your problem getting the bar off rack to over your chest, I think your pectoralis minor and back muscles are a bit weak. You can try lying BB pullovers, as the movement is similar within a certain ROM.

A spotter can help you lift weights through psychology. Your CNS shuts down due to safety reasons (it wants to keep your maximum weight lower to prevent injuries), which is why you can’t lift as much. Having a spotter around gives you confidence that nothing can go wrong, and this somehow allows your CNS to neglect that safety barrier and go all out.

Another explanation is that your spotter is so strong that he doesn’t realize that he’s removing 10 pounds off the bar while holding it from the bottom. Yet another explanation is that you got stronger since your last workout.

I suggest that next time you get a spotter, tell him not to hold the bar until you say so.

Those RM charts are accurate only to a certain extent. For example, if you’re slow twitch dominant, your 1RM would be lower than what the chart prescribes.[/quote]

I just assumed widest grip=strongest, but that may not be the case?

I’ll look up the BB pullovers. Which back muscles specifically? I do deadlifts and squats as well.

Good suggestion on the spotter. I’ll try that next time. I just hating bugging people for spots because I don’t know anyone there.

Is there a way to tell when your CNS is as efficient as it’s gonna be for a certain exercise? Every so often I measure myself, and none of my body parts have really grown so I conclude that means all my strength gains are CNS-related. When do I know it’s time to start adding mass?

9

[quote]Phydeaux wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I don’t know much about your first question, but I think the chest gets most involved at the lowest ROM.

Grip width depends on your goals. If you want to stimulate your pecs more, wide is the way to go. If you want more triceps, go close. If you wanna lift as heavy as possible, find your strongest grip.

I normally lockout after lifting just to set things up. As for your problem getting the bar off rack to over your chest, I think your pectoralis minor and back muscles are a bit weak. You can try lying BB pullovers, as the movement is similar within a certain ROM.

A spotter can help you lift weights through psychology. Your CNS shuts down due to safety reasons (it wants to keep your maximum weight lower to prevent injuries), which is why you can’t lift as much. Having a spotter around gives you confidence that nothing can go wrong, and this somehow allows your CNS to neglect that safety barrier and go all out.

Another explanation is that your spotter is so strong that he doesn’t realize that he’s removing 10 pounds off the bar while holding it from the bottom. Yet another explanation is that you got stronger since your last workout.

I suggest that next time you get a spotter, tell him not to hold the bar until you say so.

Those RM charts are accurate only to a certain extent. For example, if you’re slow twitch dominant, your 1RM would be lower than what the chart prescribes.

I just assumed widest grip=strongest, but that may not be the case?

I’ll look up the BB pullovers. Which back muscles specifically? I do deadlifts and squats as well.

Good suggestion on the spotter. I’ll try that next time. I just hating bugging people for spots because I don’t know anyone there.

Is there a way to tell when your CNS is as efficient as it’s gonna be for a certain exercise? Every so often I measure myself, and none of my body parts have really grown so I conclude that means all my strength gains are CNS-related. When do I know it’s time to start adding mass?[/quote]

The wider you go the less triceps will be involved (I think). So if you have really weak triceps your widest will be your strongest grip (I think).

10

(You think) wrong. Most people will be stronger with a closer grip. Read Cressey’s shoulder savers articles where he describes proper bench form.

11

[quote]bruinsdmb wrote:
Most people will be stronger with a closer grip. Read Cressey’s shoulder savers articles where he describes proper bench form.[/quote]

Bullshit. instead of reading you need to hit the gym. a wider grip will involve your chest more that a narrow grip and it will involve the lats if you’re doing it right. It also shortens the stroke.

I agree with phil in that you could widen your grip and do some pause rep stuff if you want to bring your chest up, but what does the rest of your chest and tricep workout look like?

12

[quote]tveddy wrote:
bruinsdmb wrote:
Most people will be stronger with a closer grip. Read Cressey’s shoulder savers articles where he describes proper bench form.

Bullshit. instead of reading you need to hit the gym. a wider grip will involve your chest more that a narrow grip and it will involve the lats if you’re doing it right. It also shortens the stroke.

I agree with phil in that you could widen your grip and do some pause rep stuff if you want to bring your chest up, but what does the rest of your chest and tricep workout look like?[/quote]

Bullshit. Instead of debating you need to train… J/k

After working out with tons of people I noticed that neither grip is NATURALLY stronger for any particular person.(Outside of a closer than shoulder with grip being weak) Some people have stronger chest and feel better real wide, and some have stronger arms and are stronger shoulder width…

As you get heavier. Say above 1 3/4 body weight people training with a wider grip tend to have higher lifts. For shoulder health, I do think not flaring your elbows out is benefecial, unless you just don’t want to make the bar touch your chest.

The first 5 inches does use chest more, but if you move it 5 inches then stop then its likely your tri’s are the weak link. Either way I believe that you will benefit from normal proper training rather then speciallizing in one muscle over another.

A spotter can make a lift alot easier for so many reasons.
The ones that keep the finger under the bar take alot away from the negative. (ANAL PEOPLE: These numbers are not exact) 30% of the lift the weight is a negative, 30% reversing the downward force of the bar. Both of these that spotter takes away.
Another reason is you know he’s there so your not telling yourself what happens if I don’t get this lift. That alone will make you stronger.

A max that you can tell your friends can be whatever you want it to be. It can be a max with a spot, or a max without. Just tell them the conditions, I mean powerlifters tell you there max all the time and it drops upwards of 100lbs without the suit.

Unless your going in to powerlifting a max isn’t all that beneficial. Keep your training to 3 and above reps, and tell your spotters hands off.

13

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
After working out with tons of people I noticed that neither grip is NATURALLY stronger for any particular person.(Outside of a closer than shoulder with grip being weak) Some people have stronger chest and feel better real wide, and some have stronger arms and are stronger shoulder width…[/quote]

That’s what I was saying. If you’re someone like myself who is still very weak and untrained it’s most likely you’ll have stronger arms than chest muscles. I feel just as strong doing close grip bench press to wide grip. My strongest grip is between wide and close.

14

Good advice so far.

Some other suggestions for building up your weak point are:

  1. Isometrics. Place a bench in a power rack and set the pins to a point that is approximately where you usually fail (4-5" above your chest). Now lay under the pins with an unweighted (or lightly weighted) bar and press the bar up into the pins. Now, even though you will be unable to do so, try to press the bar up through the pins.

You can either do a few sets of 10 second isometric presses. Or you can do several sets of shorter duration isometric presses (say 2-3 seconds) in a repetition format. In other words press the bar up into the pins for 2 seconds, lower the bar to chest and repeat for several repetitions. Rest, then repeat the process for a couple more sets.

  1. Speed work. If you can generate enough speed/force during the ROM prior to your sticking point you should be able to power through it. Westside’s DE method is designed to help with this.

The use of “accomadating resistance” (bands, chains, etc…) can make the load lighter in your weaker ROM and more difficult in your stronger ROM.

  1. Use variety. There is no one best variation of the bench press (well, no universally best anyhow). Yes, powerlifters tend to prefer a wide grip. But also keep in mind that their goal is to move as much weight as possible through as small a ROM as possible, and many also utilize equipment (gear) that helps them to lift the weight.

Wide grip is good, close grip is good, medium grip is good, DB is good, reverse (supinated) grip is good. All variations have their purpose.

Good training,

Sentoguy

15

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

Bullshit. Instead of debating you need to train… J/k[/quote]

As you wrote that I was working out, so there.

[quote]
After working out with tons of people I noticed that neither grip is NATURALLY stronger for any particular person.(Outside of a closer than shoulder with grip being weak) Some people have stronger chest and feel better real wide, and some have stronger arms and are stronger shoulder width…

As you get heavier. Say above 1 3/4 body weight people training with a wider grip tend to have higher lifts. For shoulder health, I do think not flaring your elbows out is benefecial, unless you just don’t want to make the bar touch your chest. [/quote]

hmm, I didn’t realize that. I haven’t lifted with many people that bench less than that though. And I agree, don’t flare the elbows.

[quote]
The first 5 inches does use chest more, but if you move it 5 inches then stop then its likely your tri’s are the weak link. Either way I believe that you will benefit from normal proper training rather then speciallizing in one muscle over another. [/quote]

Which is why you move your grip out… to shorten the stroke. This can only be done so much though, at some point you will have to train the tris harder to progress further.

[quote]
A spotter can make a lift alot easier for so many reasons.
The ones that keep the finger under the bar take alot away from the negative. (ANAL PEOPLE: These numbers are not exact) 30% of the lift the weight is a negative, 30% reversing the downward force of the bar. Both of these that spotter takes away.
Another reason is you know he’s there so your not telling yourself what happens if I don’t get this lift. That alone will make you stronger.[/quote]

Which is why you tell the spotter to not touch the bar until you yell help.

[quote]
A max that you can tell your friends can be whatever you want it to be. It can be a max with a spot, or a max without. Just tell them the conditions, I mean powerlifters tell you there max all the time and it drops upwards of 100lbs without the suit.[/quote]

So do you think that raw powerlifters benefit from an ME day?

I think that singles have their place as long as they aren’t a staple of training. They teach you to handle heavier weight than you’re used to, which is SOMETIMES why people plateau.

OP. You think you can post the bench tri wo you do.

16

[quote]tveddy wrote:
I agree with phil in that you could widen your grip and do some pause rep stuff if you want to bring your chest up, but what does the rest of your chest and tricep workout look like?[/quote]

Is this directed to me (the OP)? If so, I do mainly bp w/ wide grip (for me). Sometimes I’ll do 1-2 sets w/ shoulder-width grip. I usually follow that w/ 2-4 sets of overhead press. That’s the core of my chest workout.

Assistance stuff: the past 3 weeks I’ve started doing horizontal rows for “shoulder balancing”. Sometimes I do dips w/ a plate in my lap.

Other stuff: I tend to finish up my workout w/ a combo of hanging leg raises, glute-ham raises, and/or static timed holds for grip.

17

OK. if your doing dips with the plate in your lap then I’m assuming you do them behind the back which hits the tris more. if you have a regular dip bar you could do it on there and it would hit your chest better. DB stuff is also always good too.

18

If by “behind the back” you’re referring to my arm location, then yes. We have a dip station but I think it’s too wide for me. When I go down I feel pain around my clavicles so I pretty much stopped doing those. I would like to try heavier weighted dips, but putting 2 plates in my lap is awkward.

I like all the suggestions; I’m learning a lot. I’ll try those pullovers tonight. I may switch to mainly close-grip for a couple weeks to see how that works. I need to write this down so I can take it with me.

My bar speed sucks. At 135, I can lower fast and controlled. At 185 and up, if I try to lower fast I tend to hit my chest hard enough that it doesn’t feel too good. So I lower slowly with near-max weight.

19

[quote]Phydeaux wrote:
If by “behind the back” you’re referring to my arm location, then yes. We have a dip station but I think it’s too wide for me. When I go down I feel pain around my clavicles so I pretty much stopped doing those. I would like to try heavier weighted dips, but putting 2 plates in my lap is awkward.

I like all the suggestions; I’m learning a lot. I’ll try those pullovers tonight. I may switch to mainly close-grip for a couple weeks to see how that works. I need to write this down so I can take it with me.

My bar speed sucks. At 135, I can lower fast and controlled. At 185 and up, if I try to lower fast I tend to hit my chest hard enough that it doesn’t feel too good. So I lower slowly with near-max weight.[/quote]

When you say the dips hurt your clavicle are you flaring your elbows or are they going straight behind you?

20

I had to try the dips again tonight because I couldn’t remember. Yes, my elbows flare. I don’t know if it’s because the dip station is about 24" wide.

I tried some of the suggestions tonight. I definitely need practice with the different grips. On the close grip I could only do 175x3. On the wide grip (index fingers touching smooth ring), my wrists hurt because they were rotating under the bar. The BB pullover was tough as well. I only tried the empty bar and I struggled on the later reps to bring it back over my head.