I have no idea how much you bench. I chose 200lb is an arbitrary number.
The point I wanted to make is that Wendler is likely talking about people who aren’t beginners and/or have some weakness with the bench that can be solved within a couple of weeks.
I believe you can add 40lb to your bench 1rm in 8 weeks. The great part is that you can probably do the same thing on 5/3/1. You just won’t know you did it because there’s no reason to attempt it.
@duketheslaya I think you need to take a step back and look long and hard at your thought process here. Right now, you’re amply proving @T3hPwnisher to be right when he says you have already made a decision about something you know very little about.
You can progress as fast on 5/3/1 as you can using DC training. Why? Because, like most successful systems, they both use similar principles. What you’re doing is getting caught up in arbitrary numbers taken from one particular instance. They are in no way indicative of DC allowing faster progress than 5/3/1.
This is my basic understanding of DC training in respect of its progression (@danteism please correct me if I’m wrong) is that you aim to add reps every week to your one work set for each bodypart which you work up to in a few sets. When you achieve a certain number of reps, you add weight. You use rest pause sets a lot for this, and extreme stretching in many cases. Every few weeks you swap the exercises for each body part around, generally when you can no longer add weight or reps. Generally you train full body, three times a week in this manner.
In 5/3/1 (generally), you work up to a top set and aim to hit a rep PR with progressively heavier weights. You follow this with back off sets - which include widowmaker and rest pause sets - and higher rep assistance work. Generally, you train four days a week in an upper/lower format. One option is to train each lift twice in an ‘opposite’ manner with backoff sets (squat then DL, bench then press, etc). Every few cycles you change your assistance exercises and supplemental setup to avoid burning out.
Are you beginning to get the picture? How fast you progress is up to you, not the program you use. I would say both systems use submaximal training and deloads to ensure constant progress. DC uses a bit more intensity with the rest pause sets and time under tension techniques, and has a slightly wider exercise selection. Its main purpose is building size, so this makes perfect sense. On the other hand, 5/3/1 uses less intensity but a fair amount of volume on four main lifts and focuses on bar speed - it’s a strength program, so again, that makes perfect sense.
If you think you will only add x amount of weight to y lift in z amount of time with one specific approach, you are very misguided and that mentality will likely hold you back from achieving your goals. You will achieve that goal with any approach provided you implement it intelligently, work hard consistently and don’t suffer any setbacks.
So say if i wanted to gain 40 kilos on my squat 1rpm in 2 months 5/3/1 wouldnt limit this, id be the limit?
Yes, absolutely. Almost doubling your max in two months is a tall order by any stretch of the imagination but at your level is feasible IF you get absolutely everything right: improved technique, recovery (food, sleep), prehab, assistance to target weak points, etc. NONE of those are dependent on what system you use but rather HOW you use it.
I having trouble understanding, if your approach was to have a 250kg squat and you currently squat 150 and you always skip training legs, you’re not going to get there… programs etc do matter if i squatted once a week vs squatting three times a week who would make better progress? Under the circumstances and correct rep schemes etc the three day a week squatter would achieve there goal alot quicker.
You’re thinking too much.
Just go add 40lb to your bench’s 5-10rm (1rm is overrated if you’re not actually competing, and is probably counter-productive to your overall health) in 8 weeks.
It is better to think, then not think at all
So im wrong then? Squatting once a week is better then three days a week?
Okay il just follow the worst program in the world where il only train once a month, il make great gains because im overthinking alot and it doesbt matter what system i follow
Stop being petulant.
Follow whatever program you like. Let us know how your progress is.
You have a very limited understanding of training and very little experience. You know this. Stop trying to prove that your preferred method is better and try to learn something. We’re just trying to get you to understand that it isn’t the program that matters but the principles.
Okay, well thanks but i cant understand, it just doesn’t make any sense to me.
I’m not quite sure of why DC is brought into this, as the squat dude didn’t do anything like it - it was my programming, not Dante’s.
To adress this whole thing going on here I’ll just tell you this: after I parted ways with the squat dude I got him started on 5/3/1 actually. While his gains have been slower than they were during those 10 weeks it is a surefire way to get stronger - and most importantly, in this case, you don’t necessarily need a spotter for a lot of the stuff you are doing. (And as he had to start training alone that is a good thing)
Personally I have never used 5/3/1 and probably never will. I prefer to do my own programming and something like that would restrict me too much.
But here’s the correction:
I got a bit sidetracked with the response, I’m gonna leave it down there but I’ll check the bolded things up here for convenience
In DC you aim to add reps and/or weight to your working set(s) every week, yes. Most of the exercises are done rest paused, if not, two sets of different rep ranges are used.
Exercises are swapped only when you can’t progress in them (or you don’t want to do them anymore), if you fail to progress with a movement twice in a row you’ll have to switch it out
In DC you have one working set on most exercises. That working set contains three mini-sets that are done with 15 breaths inbetween (so it’s a rest-pause)
A set could look like this:
8 reps
15 breaths
4 reps
15 breaths
3 reps
done
That’s 15 total reps. Now we take a look at what your rep range is supposed to be.
If it’s 11-15 (most popular rep range for presses) you should go up in weight next time. Just throw on 5-10 pounds more and aim for at least 11 total reps.
If your rep range is supposed to be, for example, 11-20 and you got 15, you should probably aim to get more reps before you increase the weight, but you also have the option of just adding weight. (Just make sure not to fall under the rep range)
If you fall under the rep range, say you got 9 total reps and the low end was 11, you can either try to get back in the “zone” next time with same weight (so you need 2 more reps) or you can switch exercises.
Exercises are switched as soon as you don’t make progress anymore. If you don’t progress in one workout, it’s not a big deal - but if you can’t add reps or weight I’m two workouts in a row you’ll have to switch the exercise. There is no rule that states “you have to switch exercises every x weeks”
With DC you usually train with a 2-way split three times a week (although on the chest/shoulder/tricep/backwidth/backthickness day you are hitting also your lower body pretty hard if you deadlift. In addition to that day there is a bicep/forearm/calf/hamstring/quad day)
That’s all true
Regarding these “slow programs” and why I don’t do them is really a psychological thing; I want that adrenaline rush from doing something a bit crazy every time I go train - I don’t want to build up to it for a long time. But if my circumstances in life were really challenging I would probably write up a bit “slower” program to ensure progress so that when I can start blasting away every workout again I would be even stronger.
What I’m trying to say is this: You should choose your programs intensity according to the amount of stress coming from outside sources (school, work, etc.)
Duke doesn’t have (at least to my understanding) a lot of outside stress so he can use a really intense program. Now I know, 5/3/1 can be as intense as you want it to be with all of the max effort sets, jokers and whatnot. It has just been branded to be a slow and steady program - which it also is.
But why not just experiment with stuff for now? It’s a great idea to try out stuff when you are young so when you get older you know what could help if you hit a plateau. Now experimenting with stuff doesn’t mean jumping from program to program every two weeks. Just be smart, you’ll figure it out.
I didn’t even believe anyone would remember that anymore. He was a freak of nature - hardest worker I’ve ever seen.
And that’s what it all comes down to. Hard work. You can have the best program in the world but if you don’t work hard you won’t make Any significant progress.
Back to subject: I recommend you clear up your perception of 5/3/1 with @MarkKO or someone else who knows this stuff. And I insist that none of us push any specific program - no matter how dear it is to us - on Duke. After that we can just all carry on.
Exactly, thats how I feel.[quote=“danteism, post:676, topic:224849”]
didn’t even believe anyone would remember that anymore. He was a freak of nature - hardest worker I’ve ever seen.
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I remembered because stuff likethis motivates me to train hard and maybe i can achieve such things.[quote=“danteism, post:676, topic:224849”]
It has just been branded to be a slow and steady program - which it also i
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Im glad you agree. Some others did not.
I hope i do figure it out honestly lofting is more complicated than i thought it would be, but some of that complication is myself.
Exactly, train hard and smart, eat lots and rest.
I appreciate everyones help but i do need time to learn by myself, it will be a while before i do a program such as 5/3/1
Exactly. You’re awesome programming + their hard work ethic = Epic gains.
That’s great to hear - that motivates me to try and be a better coach so we can get more of these guys out there
That’s probably because earlier you pretty much said that 5/3/1 can only be a slow program - be careful of statements like that, they tend to upset people. (Just to clarify what I meant up there - 5/3/1 can be either a slow and steady program or it can be a fast program. It’s adaptable)
I’m a simple man, I like simple things. And I think that lifting doesn’t have to be complicated. Really, it’s better to take complicated things and make them simple than to take simple things and make them complicated.
See? You already got it!
That’s what I was thinking about. Everyone here want to help, and sometimes it can be even a bit overwhelming
Thanks man. My programming is quite tough most of the times, so guys and girls with no work ethic wouldn’t probably even be able to do it. (That’s why we sometimes do really hard stuff for the sole purpose of making people tougher)
my intention wasnt for people to get offended though, it was to point out that 5/3/1 isnt the program of the gods, (whilst it is an awesome program) there is other methods that can give you faster strength gains etc but you couldnt keep getting those extreme strength gains forever . If i added 50 kilos to my bench in 2 months using whatever program/ training system etc i wouldnt be able to do that for ever so id eventually need a program like 5/3/1 which would allow me to make slow consistent gains.
You’re welcome! If it isnt tough then whats the point anyway? Theres no sense of achievement if you dont train hard and you wont make much gains anyway.
It was a little overwhelming to be honest.
I think you will end up a highly sought after coach! If you arent already😉